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AZ Dave
December 07, 2008, 22:32
I'm thinking about taking the plunge after years of wanting one and after seeing the Bowers and Gemtechs at the sar show this weekend. I have a friend who is a dealer for Gemtech and he'll sell one to me for cost. I'm concerned that you cant service it. Bowers has one model that you can service. Any opinions and personal experience here is welcome. Thanks

Stranger
December 07, 2008, 23:12
I would say neither.

The Tactical Innovations TAC65, Stratus, or Quest will meet or exceed the performance of the GemTech or Bowers cans and can be disassembled. The AAC Prodigy is another one you might want to look at (it will be my next 22LR can). It too can be disassembled.

rocko
December 08, 2008, 11:59
I got the Outback II before the ATF ruling that the tube can't be replaced w/o a new tax. If I could go back in time, I'd get something that could be disassembled - and likely will be adding one in the near future.

IMO, Bower's stuff is generally on the low end, and I think it make sense to "buy better" for a can - after all, the same $200 tax and PITA of getting the approval is due whether you spend $300 or $500 on a can and used cans pretty much have zero resale so buyer's remorse is not an option. I'm looking at the SWR Spectre, which lots of folks like - might want to take a gander that way as well.

kev
December 08, 2008, 13:57
I 'sorta' agree. It's a common suggestion to go with the best you can afford since the difference in overall price(including the tax and transfer fees)between suppressors isn't all that much. Also true that you'll be pretty much stuck with what you buy forever. Used cans can't be worth as much as new wholesale and usually quite a bit less since technology advances and things like warranties have value. Add in the unrecoverable costs like the first transfer and factor in the next transfer(or two if crossing a State line),...............it's easy to see that a used suppressor is worth less than nothing. You can't give it away.

OTOH, of 20-30 .22 suppressors I have ranging from $80 no-names to top of the line, I really don't see much performance difference between them, and what little difference there might be doesn't seem to correlate precisely with the costs.

The 'best' suppressors cannot be disassembled. That's a fact. Can't get something for nothing. A sealed can will be smaller/lighter/more rugged, and probably quieter than anything that can be taken apart. It will also be cheaper to manufacture, tho that might not show up as a difference in cost at the retail lever. Unless you're planning on firing 10's of 1000's of rounds through it, or especially dedicating it to F/A fire, I don't really see that the 'advantage' of a disassembling can outweighs the 'disadvantages'. Of course I can say that because I have enough of them that firing 10's of 1000's of rounds through any one of them will not be necessary. If this is going to be your one and only, use it on everything suppressor,......then spending as much as you can on something you can service yourself does make a certain amount of sense.

I really like the SRT Cheyenne. Have an AAC Pilot that's pretty good too. For sound, there's nothing wrong with the LCW Predators. I have a bunch of those and I put them on everything. They sound great and since they're all aluminum, they're very light. They aren't as nicely finished as the more expensive suppressors and they probably won't hold up as well, but they were $80 each so who cares? (Buy 'em cheap and stack 'em deep works for suppressors too, as long as you're a dealer.) The Bowers' cans were Cheap-Ass-Cans(CAC-22, CAC-9, etc). Very well built and nicely finished, but not necessarily the quietest around. I think his newer stuff is probably better, but I have no experience with it. The CAC-22 is a nice can for what it is, though long discontinued. It is a brick(all stainless)and just as tough. I have some of Mark White's old suppressors and they're fantastic if a somewhat larger suppressor is OK. These are older cans,..............his newer stuff is probably smaller like everything else. I seem to recall YHM are White suppressors or designs. I've been out of it for a few years and am not really current on what's available today, but as of 2-3yrs ago, the above has been my experience.

I have a hard time imagining that you can get usably quieter or smaller than what was available a couple of years ago. Seems most of the advatages have been toward marketing and justifying increased prices for newer models.

BlueDuck
December 08, 2008, 14:43
I've got a Yankee Hill Mite that I've owned for about a year. I had a Lauer Predator on order, but I was talked out of that model for the Yankee Hill Mite. The Mite is very quiet on my Walther P22, but not so quiet on my Buckmark or 10/22. I like being able to take mine apart and clean it, but I wish it were quieter on my Buckmark. I paid $250 for my Mite; I'm afraid to ask how much it actually cost to make it (I'd guess about $50 max). It is fun to shoot and not so expensive that I feel bad about the purchase. I'd have been pissed if I had paid $500 for it.
BlueDuck

Stranger
December 08, 2008, 14:49
Originally posted by kev

The 'best' suppressors cannot be disassembled. That's a fact. Can't get something for nothing. A sealed can will be smaller/lighter/more rugged, and probably quieter than anything that can be taken apart. It will also be cheaper to manufacture, tho that might not show up as a difference in cost at the retail lever.

I guess it depends on what quality you are measuring when you call one thing better than another. The TAC65 is just a quiet as the GemTech and AAC offerings. The GemTech can certainly is smaller and lighter, but that isn't necessarily what I am looking for in a suppressor.

Straight from the manufacturer the TAC65 weighs 4.2 oz while the Outback II weighs 2.5 oz. While it may weight twice as much to start out with, at the end of 20K rounds the Outback weighs a lot more than the TAC65 because the TAC65 gets cleaned out every 2K rounds while the gunk just keeps building up in the Outback. After this week I will have shot 17K rounds through my TAC65. Every 2K rounds it gets disassembled and all the gunk inside removed. There is a lot of lead and crap that builds up in a .22LR can.

I guess if someone isn't going to shoot their suppressor much (or has a dozen of them) having a can that disassembles isn't that big a deal. However, for someone who shoots close to 400 rounds of .22LR every weekend through one can it is a necessity.

kev
December 08, 2008, 15:23
We're in agreement. When I say 'best', I'm considering a combination of all factors,.......smallest, lightest, quietest, most rugged. If any of those characteristics are worth the tradeoff for user servicable, then it's worth the tradeoff.

Not everyone is going to shoot 20,000rds through a can. If that's the way you use it then obviously having a suppressor that comes apart is a major requirement.

I wouldn't put a Predator on my AM180. In fact, I wouldn't even put my CAC-22 on the 180 unless I was willing to throw it away after a short while. It might last, but I'd be ready to toss it.

W.E.G.
December 08, 2008, 15:34
If you are really suave like James Bond, you just use a suppressor once anyway.

Then you chuck it overboard and let Q worry about it.

kev
December 08, 2008, 15:49
Silly,............that's what 'taters are for.

calvinike
December 12, 2008, 23:22
I agree with BlueDuck. I also have a YHM Mite and use it with a P22. Great combo and I like the fact it can be dissassembled. My price was the same. Nothing is going to sound like the movies, but my combo sounds about like a 1,000 FPS .22 airgun.

Artful
December 13, 2008, 01:57
I have not tried this but I understand YHM has a 9mm can that disassembles for cleaning - 9mm cans on 22LR are pretty good sound wise. One can multi caliber use.

I tried this philosphy with buying a TAC-16 - a 223 can that can be taken apart to clean that way I could use 22LR thur it - worked ok but was heavy and large -
So I wound up buying a TAC-65 can to use on 22 pistols.

I would check to see how big the yhm m2 can is and how much it weighs and if they will warrenty if you shoot 22lr thru it.

You should go over to http://www.silencerresearch.com
and check out the 22LR can test - they have one section for rifle and one for pistol - as the best suppression on one firearm would change on a different type of firearm.

Just my experience and thoughts - Yours free - you get what you pay for. :shades:

Master Blaster
December 16, 2008, 00:36
The AAC Aviator is an exceptional can. Mounted on a Ruger 22/45 with a Tactical Solutions upper and a full mag it tips the scales at one pound two ounces. It is very quiet even with the bulk pack .22LR HP ammo.

DNH1
December 17, 2008, 19:19
I just received a Spectre. Well worth the money! When I cleaned it out after 400 rounds, I was very surprised at how much crap was left in the suppressor. I'm very glad I bought one I can clean.

0007
December 17, 2008, 19:41
YHM claims that you only have to clean their cans about every thousand rounds or so. Then you just toss it in some mineral spirits for a little while and blow it dry. I'd still rather have a supressor that I can disassemble. Call me weird I guess.

Artful
December 19, 2008, 17:53
Originally posted by 0007
YHM claims that you only have to clean their cans about every thousand rounds or so. Then you just toss it in some mineral spirits for a little while and blow it dry. I'd still rather have a supressor that I can disassemble. Call me weird I guess.

They must of agreed with you :wink:, that's why they came out with the M2 model


Redesigned for improved performance and user service! The Nielsen piston in the Cobra M2 family of suppressors has been redesigned for increased strength and better performance while still allowing the user to adjust the point of impact. The baffle stack has been optimized as well and now comes apart from the tube to allow cleaning. YHM's Nielsen piston allows the suppressor to function flawlessly on any semi-automatic handgun. Cobra M2s utilize stainless steel components to minimize wear of the threads and the Nielsen device. The Nielsen device can still be disassembled for cleaning using the supplied tool. All Cobra M2 sound suppressors are constructed using Sound Tech’s patented baffle design (U.S. Patent #7,073,426) for superior sound reduction.

and now you can change connectors

NEW AND IMPROVED! The Cobra 9mm sound suppressor has been updated from a pistol suppressor to a complete multiuse system!

Each 9mm Cobra M2 sound suppressor features a user serviceable design that allows the owner to disassemble and clean the internals of the suppressor. This results in increased suppressor life, increased performance, and easy, inexpensive repairs should the need arise.

The Cobra M2 System is available with 4 different mounting options. The improved Nielsen system allows reliable function on most popular handguns, the thread mount provides simple attachment to a wide variety of rifles and sub machine guns, the 3 lug adapter allows its use on an H&K style 3 lug barrel, and our Q.D. adapter allows the use of our patent pending Q.D. Flash Hider for fast and easy installation and removal of the suppressor. All Cobra M2 sound suppressors are constructed using Sound Tech’s patented baffle design (U.S. Patent #7,073,426) for superior sound reduction.

If I didn't already have a 9mm pistol can I'd be seriously checking this one out.
They all just keep getting better every year. :shades:

subsonic 9 with cobra
http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l69/armorgod/?action=view&current=YHMCobraSubsonicOnly.flv

22LR thru 9mm
http://vimeo.com/1925623

the gman
December 25, 2008, 21:54
The way most of you guys talk, it's like you need a $500 can on .22LR to make it quiet & that's just a bunch of crap.

I have owned many .22 suppressors in the UK & not ONE of them cost me anywhere even approaching $80!

You can throw out any kind of sound reduction numbers but when the only sound you can hear is the click of the firing pin & the whap when it hits the bunny, I'd say that the suppressor is effective......:shades:

One of the very best suppressors I ever owned was just a little over 4" long, 3/4" in diameter & consisted of nothing more than a end cap screwed to fit on the muzzle that was threaded into the tube with another end cap with an exit size hole. From the muzzle threaded end there was a spring that matched the interior dimension & was about 2" long & then there was a thin spacer, (almost like a washer) another 2" spring & then the final end cap. That was it, no 'K' baffles, no fancy welding or anything else required. Many Euro .22 cans are just as simple, it's a .22, it ain't rocket science.......

With RWS Subsonics, that small can was as quiet as hell, even on a 12" barrelled 10/22. I would fire at least 20,000 .22 thru this rifle & can every year killing rabbits & I NEVER once cleaned it in over 3 years of use.

There is so much shit talked about .22 suppressors it ain't even funny. If the tax stamp didn't exist, no-one would ever consider paying anything more than $100 for a .22 can.......:uhoh: :uhoh:

Artful
December 28, 2008, 10:05
Originally posted by the gman
The way most of you guys talk, it's like you need a $500 can on .22LR to make it quiet & that's just a bunch of crap.

True if your able you can make your own for $200 tax in USA and material cost

I have owned many .22 suppressors in the UK & not ONE of them cost me anywhere even approaching $80!

Funny isn't it we can own your FAL's but have to pay thru the nose for a muffler for it.

You can throw out any kind of sound reduction numbers but when the only sound you can hear is the click of the firing pin & the whap when it hits the bunny, I'd say that the suppressor is effective......:shades:

True, and you can get that with 22 shorts in a long barrel rifle for nothing, the thing is we want to use cheaper Walmart stuff

One of the very best suppressors I ever owned was just a little over 4" long, 3/4" in diameter & consisted of nothing more than a end cap screwed to fit on the muzzle that was threaded into the tube with another end cap with an exit size hole. From the muzzle threaded end there was a spring that matched the interior dimension & was about 2" long & then there was a thin spacer, (almost like a washer) another 2" spring & then the final end cap. That was it, no 'K' baffles, no fancy welding or anything else required. Many Euro .22 cans are just as simple, it's a .22, it ain't rocket science.......

for a 22LR there are many effective designs, and choosing the right ammo subsonic ammo can go a long ways towards quiet shooting.

With RWS Subsonics, that small can was as quiet as hell, even on a 12" barrelled 10/22. I would fire at least 20,000 .22 thru this rifle & can every year killing rabbits & I NEVER once cleaned it in over 3 years of use.

That's a lot of rabbits, and how hard was it to take apart after the 3 years of shooting had gone by?

There is so much shit talked about .22 suppressors it ain't even funny. If the tax stamp didn't exist, no-one would ever consider paying anything more than $100 for a .22 can.......:uhoh: :uhoh:

Very True, If you didn't have to pay the SOT to become a Mfg and do all that paperwork, and you didn't have to pay the $200 to buy it - we'd all be buying them at Walmart - made in china for 12.99. But that isn't reality here is it.

Artful
December 29, 2008, 14:18
Originally posted by Artful
I have not tried this but I understand YHM has a 9mm can that disassembles for cleaning - 9mm cans on 22LR are pretty good sound wise. One can multi caliber use.

I tried this philosphy with buying a TAC-16 - a 223 can that can be taken apart to clean that way I could use 22LR thur it - worked ok but was heavy and large -
So I wound up buying a TAC-65 can to use on 22 pistols.

I would check to see how big the yhm m2 can is and how much it weighs and if they will warrenty if you shoot 22lr thru it.

Well I couldn't stand it, So I sent an email to YHM - tech department


On Sun Dec 28 11:11 , artful <flair_bird@yahoo.com> sent:

Hi, I have used an existing 9mm suppressor with 22LR and know that it give pretty good suppression but don't use it a lot as I know that I can't clean it and then I saw your 9mm Cobra multi-mount M2 cleanable 9mm - Eureka I said here's a can that should be quiet in 9mm and be able to be cleaned and I can get set up for all my 9mm's and 22 LR and only have one can to take to the range and clean instead of several.

But I am making assumptions, so I thought I would ask the experts - So I'm asking the following questions.

If I purchase a 9mm Cobra M2 Multi - can I use it with 9mm cast bullets, and can I use it with the dirty 22LR?

And if I use it how many cast bullet loads and/or 22LR rounds fired before I have to take apart and clean it?

What cleaning methods could I use after shooting lead or 22LR rounds thru it?

Thanks for your response.

and today I got a response


--- On Mon, 12/29/08, Yankee Hill Machine Co. Inc. <yhm@yhm.net> wrote:

From: Yankee Hill Machine Co. Inc. <yhm@yhm.net>
Subject: Re: Question about 22LR use thru 9mm Cobra M2
To: flair_bird@yahoo.com
Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 8:23 AM
Sir,
Our Cobra M2 9mm would work fine with your 9mm and .22LR.
Recommended cleaning is after 1000-1500 rounds of
either .22 or 9mm have been fired through it. The easiest
way to clean is to take it apart and soak everything in
mineral spirits overnight and then wipe it out and
reassemble the next day. This is all that is required.


Thanks,
Tom Camilleri
Sales-Tech
YHM

So Now I am definately interested in YHM's can. Anyone know of any other 9mm can's that are multi-mount that can be taken apart to be cleaned?

Para Driver
December 29, 2008, 22:02
sounds to me like a WECSOG project if I ever heard one.. of course providing you pay the tax stamp in advance.. I thought a couple folks here made one??

the gman
December 30, 2008, 11:02
Nice ad hominem attacks there Artful & for what?? Simply because I stated that it's BS that you need a $500 suppressor on a .22? & no, I didn't include the tax stamp in that either.

FYI, I live in the US & will very shortly have my 07 FFL & SOT so no, I won't be paying the silly prices & will be making my own cans.

You misinterpret my post regarding the db reduction numbers; many companies throw out their numbers regarding noise reduction without specifying how they were achieved or what it equates to. In addition, you don't need a whiz bang design with K baffles etc to make an effective suppressor.

Yes, it is a lot of rabbits but considering that in the UK the LAW requires that landowners control rabbits & that using a spot light is legal & that one can legally sell the rabbits to game dealers & butchers, it ain't nothing in reality....:wink: My 10/22 had a barrel length of 12.5" with a butler creek folder on it so I could swing it around easier with a short can on it in the confines of my Land Rover & that's also legal in the UK too.

Strip down the suppressor? Nope, never bothered just gave it & my rifle to my brother who is a pest control officer for the local council when I emigrated to the US. Last I heard it was still going strong 4 years later.....:p :p However, other cans I had in .22 were stripped & cleaned, at least until I realized that there was no real need for the usage they were getting with me & my father. I have stripped down several Parker Hale cans, a Vaime over the barrel can we had on a .22 BRNO & 4 or 5 other cans of undisclosed make. After looking at all of those cans, I consider the requirement to be able to disassemble the can for cleaning to be lower on the list that robust construction. Just IMHO, YMMV.

The essence of my post is there seems to be a bunch of suppressor snobs out there that say if the can isn't made by X, Y or Z, it ain't worth a shit which blatantly isn't true. I will agree that good ammo is a requirement for sure, subsonic ammo varies all over the place & that is why my father & I used RWS Subs. They are the best of the best in subsonic .22 & I have tried them all: Eley, Remington, Fiocchi, Aquila, Winchester, the list is endless & RWS is, hands down the most consistent.

The reality is that folks in the US are still getting screwed on .22 suppressors. An SOT could easily sell them for $100 & make money on them all day long. So you pay your tax stamp & then pay $100. Now you have a suppressor for $300 instead of the ass raping you do get with manufacturers charging up to $400 just for a .22 can.:eek:

You might like that but I sure don't. BTW, FYI, I have very good friends at Gemtech, YHM & AAC & I've told them the same things but they can get away with it, so they keep charging high prices.

I'd also say that many of the suppressor snobs don't care for YHM cans but I have found them to be very good value for money & the folks over there are great people.

Maybe you should spend a little time re-reading my original post before trying to take a shit all over the point of the post...... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Artful
December 30, 2008, 12:52
Originally posted by Para Driver
sounds to me like a WECSOG project if I ever heard one.. of course providing you pay the tax stamp in advance.. I thought a couple folks here made one??

Yep L1A1rocker has a nice thread about the one he made for his ruger pistol.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=237691

Artful
December 30, 2008, 13:08
G-man, sorry for my Thuggish behavior, I know that you can overpay for any number of simple products out there, I also have a nice TAC-65 that I didn't have to pay $500 for. I'm glad you are getting your SOT so you can have fun toys that you couldn't have in the UK.

I understand that the suppressor industry has wildly listed numbers regarding noise reduction and wish more independant testing was available. I guess my point is we now have more suppressor mfg than at any time I can remember - with liability insurance and other costs to the mfg, I feel they have a right to a fair profit but understand that in UK or France etc they might be able to make it much cheaper. I own cans from AAC, AWC, DTA, Tactical Innovations and others. I don't consider myself a brand snob and am sorry if I came off that way to you.

My thought was for AZ Dave to buy a quality can and not pay for a can that doesn't work as well as one costing just a little more, after all your stuck with the $200 tax stamp you might as well buy something you won't regret.

That's the reason I suggested looking into a 9mm can - just buy one in 1/2x28 and use on 22LR and 9mm - sure it might be 10% louder in 22LR but your only out one tax stamp and get multiple use. I've used 9mm can on 300 whisper it isn't as quiet as a dedicated 30 cal can but it work pretty darn well.

I look forward to your $100 can's PM me when you have one available and we'll see about maybe adding one of yours.
:wink:

kev
December 30, 2008, 14:41
The problem is completely due to the limited market. The $200 tax is an impediment, no doubt, but it's the paperwork/signature/hassle, etc that is the real problem. And the states and municipalities that restrict them completely. Many people have built very good .22 suppressors and attempted to sell them for $100 or under. It can easily be done, but you can't sell enough of them to remain in business. The reason manufacturers put all the effort into making and selling top of the line cans is so they can make enough money to keep the lights on without selling a metric ton of suppressors.

Reread my reply up at the top of this thread,............especially the last line. I'm not attacking manufacturers for taking that tac,...............it's what they have to do to survive. Many guys have tried the 'good quality and a great price', but they haven't survived.

the gman
January 01, 2009, 10:07
I guess the market is open for decent cans at a reasonable price?:wink:

I understand some folks trying to sell cans at under $100 & going out of biz if that is their only source of income but done as secondary part of their business it is certainly profitable.

The cans I have used, designed & made previously cost very little indeed. Even full bore cans I made for some hooligans from Hereford during my military service didn't cost a huge amount. I have made cans for the Sterling (a la L34), BHP & AK series. All worked & the AK worked really well with heavy .303 bullets. I made many air rifle & .22lr cans for rifles & pistols & the average cost for the materials was way less than $20. Add in my time & I guess I could say $20.

I now have a company I am working with that is a full line CNC shop & materials are still around the same price but I'm gonna guess machining is going to run $20 tops. I know for certain that other can makers aren't paying 5 times that for material & labor.

Whilst the tax stamp is an impediment to the free trade of cans, it's certainly no excuse for folks to be ripped off.

I take your point on the versatility of a 9mm can, never really considered that as I've always had the opportunity to use correct for caliber suppressors.

Have a Happy New Year!:D

kev
January 01, 2009, 11:43
Good luck to you,.............just know that many people before you have tried and failed. Like I said, there's no physical reason it can't be done. I have a bunch of very good <$100 suppressors, but they're all from OOB manufacturers.

Asmodeous
January 01, 2009, 17:40
I currently have four 22 cans:

TI Quest
TI Diamond
YHM Wraith QD
Gemtech Outback

The first three are rated for full-auto; I try to only use cans I can take apart for full auto 22; a sealed can could be made useless in a day of 22 plinking.

With subsonic ammo, they are all dead quiet. Of course, with subsonic ammo even my Martini 12/15 is dead quiet without a can.

With supersonic ammo, you're going to get a crack from a rifle and from some pistols, all depending on barrel length

The YHM cans are cheap; if it didn't require a $200 stamp every time you bought one I would consider it disposable. The TI cans are stainless steel and can easily be cleaned. I expect them to last through 10's of thousands of full auto rounds.

FWIW, the way the YHM QD adapters work I could use one of my 5.56 or 7.62 cans on a 22, too.


Gratuitous FA suppressed 22 pic...

http://www.chernicoff.com/pictures/22upper2.jpg

Artful
January 02, 2009, 02:08
Asmodeous, nice toy - more pic's of NFA items..
Note new laser grip.
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3720/dsc05918aa3.th.jpg (http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc05918aa3.jpg)
and
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/9159/dsc05912ig2.jpg
Same can on P-38
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/649/dsc05654jw8.jpg
and same can on CZ
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3127/dsc05837cw8.jpg

the gman
January 03, 2009, 19:19
Originally posted by kev
Good luck to you,.............just know that many people before you have tried and failed. Like I said, there's no physical reason it can't be done. I have a bunch of very good <$100 suppressors, but they're all from OOB manufacturers.

Kev, you don't get it bub. I make in excess of $30K profit a month on other gun stuff. I don't NEED to make .22 suppressors to pay the bills, I'd do it just for my own pleasure & the profit I'd make would be pin money for the wife to spend on stuff she wants, like more .22 ammo for her Marvel conversion kit or other doo-dads for her....:biggrin: I'm gonna make some just for me anyway so a few others once the CNC code is written ain't no big thing.

Not trying to piss in anyone's Wheaties, just coming from the background that I have, suppressor costs in the USA are just friggin' stupid.

I am reminded of the story of when SAS wanted some suppressors, quantity was around 200. Friend of mine is the UK dealer for a big Euro maker of cans & placed a bid on the contract. A very large, very well known US can company was also interested in the contract. The Yanks flew 2 SAS reps over to T&E the cans, wined them, dined them & treated them well. Boys flew home happy.

My friend is asked if his company would fly the boys to the home office & show them a good time too? Home office was asked & the response (which I thought was a little short sighted) was that the Euro's didn't consider the order big enough as they sold over 200 cans a week throughout Europe. In addition, their cans were as good as the Yank cans & less than a 1/3rd of the price.

The Yanks got the contract......

That only illustrates the fact that vastly more cans are sold & used in Europe every year than in the US. I'm not saying that folks ain't entitled to make a profit but cans are way over priced & that is due to the NFA regs & the gullibility of the US public. In addition, there is a huge snobbish attitude in the US can market as if you don't have a Surefire or AAC or Knight's can, well, you don't got shit which is simply not the case.

Must run, Lowes is calling me......

:biggrin:

kev
January 03, 2009, 20:32
Originally posted by the gman


In addition, there is a huge snobbish attitude in the US can market as if you don't have a Surefire or AAC or Knight's can, well, you don't got shit which is simply not the case.



That is almost word for word the part of my previous post that I had typed up and deleted. The other part was about the cut-throat business it is here in the US and how anyone making a decent cheap suppressor can count on being attacked anonymously by other suppressor manufacturers as well as by buyers of more expensive cans just to make themselves feel good. Glad I didn't post any of that!

I'm with you. I know good suppressors can be manufactured and sold at very reasonable prices(I have a drawer full of them). Everybody raves about a certain popular .22 can and how good it is for a cheap can, selling for around $250. When they first came out, dealer on them was $69/$79/$89 depending on what baffles you wanted in them. I'm sure the manufacturer was making plenty of profit at those prices. The suppressor market in the US is maybe 5% hardware,..........the other 95% is pure marketing.

calvinike
January 03, 2009, 21:48
Thanks for all the replies an the interesting feedback.

I do think suppressors are very over priced. The fact is we have to live withn the current laws here. I have decided to bite the bullet on another suppressor (SWR Trident 9) with the decoupler, and NFA tax I will be in for about $1K.

Buying it through my trust (which I bought the YHM MIte)n I am looking at about 8 weeks. This is about as long as it take to ge a threaded barrel for a CZ75.

The fun factor and look on my friend faces make it worth it.

Kind of like why I own a Ducati.

the gman
January 04, 2009, 13:42
Originally posted by kev


That is almost word for word the part of my previous post that I had typed up and deleted. The other part was about the cut-throat business it is here in the US and how anyone making a decent cheap suppressor can count on being attacked anonymously by other suppressor manufacturers as well as by buyers of more expensive cans just to make themselves feel good. Glad I didn't post any of that!

I'm with you. I know good suppressors can be manufactured and sold at very reasonable prices(I have a drawer full of them). Everybody raves about a certain popular .22 can and how good it is for a cheap can, selling for around $250. When they first came out, dealer on them was $69/$79/$89 depending on what baffles you wanted in them. I'm sure the manufacturer was making plenty of profit at those prices. The suppressor market in the US is maybe 5% hardware,..........the other 95% is pure marketing.

Kev, good job I'm not overly worried about winning friends & influencing people...... :rofl: :devil:

Stranger
January 04, 2009, 17:05
Originally posted by kev


I'm sure the manufacturer was making plenty of profit at those prices. The suppressor market in the US is maybe 5% hardware,..........the other 95% is pure marketing.

Okay so what the **** are you going to do about it. :?

I see lots bitching and no action. If you see a market that you can fill then man-up and start up the business. Otherwise, this looks like a bunch of masturbation to me. :rolleyes:

Present me a <$100 suppressor that will last +70K rounds and I will buy three for $1K (including the tax stamp).

kev
January 04, 2009, 18:07
I'm not bitching and I'm not going to do anything about it. I already have a job. Sounds like gman is going to make a run at it and I'm all for it.

I'm also talking about .22 cans specifically. The difference in my experience between a $100 can and a $300 can is about $20. The rest is whether or not you have nice advertisements splashed across the gun rags. The guys that get top money for their wares spend top money for ads. Those who don't, don't. Doesn't mean that their suppressors aren't just as good. If you want to spend your money to pay for their advertising go right ahead. I just believe you're getting more bang for your buck with the cheaper cans. That's my opinion based on owning 20-30 .22 caliber suppressors. I haven't owned them all. There's also more to a suppressor than the 'phuttttt', so you have to decide what things like name recognition, warrantee, years in da bizz, and all those other things mean to you.

I think the only thing you can be sure of from my posts is that it's not a business I'd have any interest in getting involved in, so there won't be any manning up from me.

Stranger
January 05, 2009, 10:29
Originally posted by kev

I'm also talking about .22 cans specifically. The difference in my experience between a $100 can and a $300 can is about $20. The rest is whether or not you have nice advertisements splashed across the gun rags. The guys that get top money for their wares spend top money for ads. Those who don't, don't. Doesn't mean that their suppressors aren't just as good. If you want to spend your money to pay for their advertising go right ahead. I just believe you're getting more bang for your buck with the cheaper cans.

I agree with you completely.

gary1978
January 05, 2009, 10:52
I've been buying and selling suppressors for about 20 years. The TAC65 is about as quiet as any other more expensive suppressor, to a human ear.
But there is an advantage in getting something that has a steel thread insert where it screws to the muzzle. I have never seen an aluminum thread wear out yet, but it is much less durable than steel threads. So if you are going to make a "rational" decision on what .22 suppressor to buy, I'd look for the lowest cost one that uses steel threads on the muzzle connection. I don't know who that is right now.