Setup for FN PBR ?

[Buddy Lee]

Over the weekend I bought a FN PBR chambered in .308 win and with a 22 inch barrel. I am looking to try my hand at precision shooting out to 500 to 600 yards.

Not being an expert in long range shooting I was hoping to get some input on: scopes, bipods, factory ammo (I currently do not reload), etc. I am not really interested in changing out the stock at this time, but I might consider it if I believe it would greatly improve my shooting.

Any information, recommendations, and insight would be much appreciated.

Buddy Lee

[tac-40]

Good optics is a must. These rifles are very accurate and to wring the most out of them you need good optics. I went with the SWFA Super Sniper in fixed power 10X. Others will say that Leupold and some Nikons are okay too. I have Luppies on both my hunting rifles and I am satisfied with them, but for the money, the Super Sniper matches my Leupolds. If you are doing some range shooting, a good spotting scope is also required. KONUS make a good scope and is highly recommended.

I tried shooting Federal Gold 168 HPBT Match ammo and was diappointed with the results. Tried the Hornady 168 HPBT Molycoated Match and my rifle will shoot 0.7 MOA when I do my part.

Get the bipod you need to keep the rifle on target when you are prone. Harris bipods are what I use exclusively. I also prefer a bipod that allows for some swivel to allow for uneven ground. Be sure to get a good shooting mat. This makes it very comfortable to get behind the rifle and concentrate on making the shot.

The factory stock is okay and will last you for a while, so I wouldn't worry about getting one ASAP. But now is the time to look at the upgrades and figure out which one will meet your needs. I have the Hogue full bedded stock on mine and I really like it.

Bottom line, what works for one person may not work for you. Buy a box of each brand and bullet weight of the premium match grade ammo available at your local gun shops and try them out for accuracy. Select the one that shoots best in your rifle and then write down which brand and weight shot second best. The rest of the accessories are up to what you like.

There are several other web sites that have comparisons and performance tests of various rifle configurations as well as discussion on what is needed. A quick Google search will turn them up so you can do some research.

Links to the stuff listed:

super sniper scopes
http://www.swfa.com/c-231-super-sniper-rifle-scopes.aspx

Konus Spotting Scope
http://www.opticsplanet.net/konus-konuspot-20-60x100-spotting-scope.html

Hornady ammo
https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session=942abcdac966dc24685152e7d912fa5c&page=shop%2Fbrowse&category_id=38ae14621e593b989097d812b0a92046

Federal ammo
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/rifle.aspx

[xtremerange]

Originally posted by tac-40
Good optics is a must. These rifles are very accurate and to wring the most out of them you need good optics. I went with the SWFA Super Sniper in fixed power 10X. Others will say that Leupold and some Nikons are okay too. I have Luppies on both my hunting rifles and I am satisfied with them, but for the money, the Super Sniper matches my Leupolds. If you are doing some range shooting, a good spotting scope is also required. KONUS make a good scope and is highly recommended.


Now you did it. The Leupy Loonies are going to come out of the woodwork!:biggrin:

Seriously, I will second the Super Sniper to start out with. It is a great scope for the money. You may want to upgrade in the future but a USO or S&B are really high dollars. (I can recommend the USOs from personal experience but only second hand on the S&Bs.)

Another +1 on the Konus. Great value too.

If you can get 0.7 moa out of it, you are doing all right with whatever setup you have. Tweaking around the edges might help but it will be more dollars for slightly smaller groups in a sniper role rifle.

[splattermatic]

sticks finger down throat and vomitts profusely......

[tac-40]

Splat, sometimes it comes back to haunt you....
i too have found the hornady 168's shot better than sierra 168's in my pbr-xp.
i am using 46.5 grains of varget tho, and oal is 2.80.

i am also finding out that mine likes at least 6 shots to group a ragged hole.
1st 3 from a clean barrel went right at 1 inch outside edge to o/s edge. next 3 clover leafed into a 1/2" o/se, to o/se. next 6 went into a ragged 1/2" hole.

now to rave about leupold III series scopes. i have a 3.5-10 older (i'd have to look) vari x III or what ever the old coin slot model is. i put a stoney point target turret on the elevation turret. i printed out a drop chart off http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/calculations/traj/traj.html using the hornady 168 gr. bthp nm bullet at 2700 fps, 6000 feet elevation, 75 degrees and 15% humidity......etc...

And I DID mention Leupold scopes, so there...:p :p :p

[AlaskanMBR]

Leupold scopes tend to be overrated IMO. I have a couple and my Nikon buckmaster is just as clear.

[mj2evans]

I have SS 10x on a Savage 308 and its very nice for the price (has been very stable and repeatable over several hundred rounds). That said I am also putting together a FN PBR in 308 and want more magnification to see if I can shrink groups some (a mil dot about covers my 3/4" target at 100yds). The turret clicks could be more positve and its not a Nightforce (nor is it $1400). I am not slamming the SS - its really hard to beat for the cash.

[splattermatic]

i know, i know.... i had a 16x super sniper and really didn't like it. eye relief was way too critical... you had to be just in the right spot to see properly..

that's what the comment was for.

i am now on a zeiss kick...

[dasu]

i got a PBR XP and put a standard Hogue stock on it courtesy tac-40. I like it, particularly for the price.

I shot an SPR a SPR with a McMillan, and that stock is much better, particularly with the cheek weld. I still cannot justify or afford the 500 bucks for the stock though.

Im running a cheap Leupold rifleman on it.

[MAINER]

Just put a PBR together also. The scope shopping was the hard part. Finally picked up with a Nikon Monarch 3 ~ 12 for about half the MSRP on ebay. Very happy with it, nice and clear.

A couple of places with good prices are Natchez Shooters Supply. Check out their refurbished scopes. Another site is Midsouth Shooters Supply.

No scope expert so no recommendations, but two scopes that were really impressive were a Zeiss (Model ?) at $600 and a Bushnell 6500. 2 1/2 ~ 16X ?

I'm also liking 30mm tubes! :D

[troubleticket]

30MM tubes ROCK!!!!

[johnnycobra]

Originally posted by AlaskanMBR
Leupold scopes tend to be overrated IMO. I have a couple and my Nikon buckmaster is just as clear.

I wouldn't say Leupolds are over rated. I dare you to find someone that says a VXIII or better is not a good scope. Their warranty is exceptional.

Now there may be better value scopes and better quality scopes (Swarovski, S&B, Zeiss) , but I seriously doubt if a Leupold will hinder your ability to perform to the capabilities of 90% of the rifles out there.

Buckmaster scopes are a hell of a deal, and if going by budget are not to be overlooked. Glass is Leupold quality, good workmanship, decent warranty.

I am actually looking at a Buckmaster 4.5-14X40MM Side Focus to go on my Tikka T3 that is going to be #2 to my CZ550 with a Leupold 4.5-14X40 LR.

I expect to see little to no difference in the performance, No material difference, but I'd go for the one that offered the features in the price range I am looking in - plus the old "made in the USA". Yes I know that lenses are not USA anymore.

[Buddy Lee]

Well I finally got the rifle set up and shot it last weekend.

First. Here's a picture of the rifle:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e130/Fire_Six/Firearms/PBR%20and%20SCAR/PBRandSCAR001.jpg
Based upon tac-40's suggestion I decided to go with a SWFA Super Sniper Scope. It is a 16x42 with rear Parallax adjustment. Being in Shreveport, LA I am close enough to take a day off of work and go to their storefront in Dallas. I took in a Zeiss Z-point sight to trade-in. I got the Z-point along with an HK rail I wanted for my G-36 conversion. I paid $400.00 for the rail and sight, and I got $300.00 for the trade in. Total paid out for the scope, rings, Harris bipod, mounting, and boresighting at SWFA was $246.00 (with tax) after the trade-in. Not a bad deal if I do say so myself. I must say the customer service at SWFA was excellent. They were very helpful in their recommendations and seemed extremely knowledgable. I would not hesitate to shop there again.

Zero at 100 yards:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e130/Fire_Six/Firearms/PBR%20and%20SCAR/PBRandSCAR010.jpg
This was my first group for a zero at 100 yards (okay technically 96 yards based upon my friend Tom's laser rangefinder) The first shot was not on paper so I took a second shot. It still was not on paper. Then I shot at the berm and noted the impact point vs where I was aiming and was able to make an initial adjustment. The fourth shot (at the top of the target) allowed me to get on paper. I made my adjustments and then put the three holes in the center of the target. Group size is .50 x .45 inches with Winchester .308 WIN 168 gr. HP Boattail Match.

Confirmation shot group at 100 yards:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e130/Fire_Six/Firearms/PBR%20and%20SCAR/PBRandSCAR015.jpg
I then shot a second group to confirm my zero. Cant really explain the flyer, but I was still pretty tight with the other shots so I was fairly satisfied with the rifle, scope, and bullets.

Group at 200 yards:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e130/Fire_Six/Firearms/PBR%20and%20SCAR/PBRandSCAR013.jpg
I then shot out to 200 yards and was able to place the red highlighted shots into the target. This was done by making a "hold-over" adjustment from the grouping at the bottom of the target. I didn't want to make any adjustments to my sight until I am able to make some more confirmation shot-groups at 100 yards. Group size is 1.25 x 1.71 inches at 200 yards with Winchester .308 WIN 168 gr. Nosler HPBT Match.

Now I just need to get some trigger time to improve my groups. I hope to be able to get to the range next weekend. Wish me luck.

Buddy Lee

[Buddy Lee]

Originally posted by splattermatic
i know, i know.... i had a 16x super sniper and really didn't like it. eye relief was way too critical... you had to be just in the right spot to see properly..

that's what the comment was for.

i am now on a zeiss kick...

I've noticed this with mine as well.

Buddy Lee

[2barearms]

Buddy,

One quick question and then a general suggestion.

Is your rifle a PBR or the PBR xp, I can't tell looking at the
photos except maybe the mount is different, the xp's should
have a one piece mount.

When ready to zero a bolt gun, the easiest way is to bore sight the
rifle to paper first. This can save most folks a couple bucks and others
more. BTW I use the Shepherd Scope one shot zero method to final
zero.

I have the PBR xp and the SPR A1 and the difference in the weight and
the barrels make a lot of difference. If you get the chance to upgrade the
stock, do it, you won't regret it. I have an IOR on the SPR and a Bushnell
Elite 3200 on the PBR and both have been outstanding scopes and rifles.

[tac-40]

Just as a coincidence, I took mine out today for some ammo comparisons: Hornady molycoated 168 HPBT Match vs Hornady TAP 168gr. Think I'll have to buy some of the A-max and V-max bullets to test them out in some handloads (now that I have some Varget to play with).

The results were surprising. First of all, my cold clean bore shot using the TAP ammo was 1" low and 1" right of the following 4 shots. Those four shots were inside 3/4 inch at 100 yds. After that, all shots hit POA and grouped around 3/4 inch. I did notice that the rifle picked up my heartbeat and was very noticable in the scope movement. Had to work on a grip that minimized that effect.

The Match ammo was surprising. The point of impact shifted up and to the left about 3/4-1 inch from the TAP ammo. And there was always one flyer in each 5 shot group. I don't recall having flyers using this ammo in the past and the sun was shining directly in my face over the top of the scope, so I attribute the flyers to the trigger interface nut (which needs adjusting) and not the rifle or ammo.

I do have a question for you precision shooters. After cleaning, do you shoot a fouling shot? I ask this because all of my cold, fouled bore shots grouped with the warm bore shots. Just the first shot of the day was off significantly from the rest of the group and it was a cleaned cold bore shot.