PDA

View Full Version : Scout Rifle - LER Scope or RedDot?


kotengu
November 14, 2008, 22:05
I like the idea of the Scout Rifle, and I'm kicking around moving my new Rem 700 in that direction. However - most of the "Scout Rifle" writings came before red dots really hit the scene. Has the red dot type device made the old Long Eye Relief scopes obsolete? Is there any advantage to one over the other in this application?

Deltaten
November 15, 2008, 10:08
A very valid question!
I don't know the history of the Scout concept welll enough to place specific dates on it; but......
IIRC , the concept was for a rifle that would have a scope with a low enough power to be able to be brough into action rapidly and at closer ranges; ie: dangerous game and/or also be able to settle in and take more surgical shots at medium ranges.
The LER requirement was to provide better balance, avoid dealing with the scope during rapid manipulation of the bolt and avail the user the option of using both eyes ..one for the area surrounding the game; one for the scope/bullet placement (ala' current red dot use).

That being said, the dot scope will do the same, given an equal amount of magnification. THe newer, low power , illuminated scopes seem to have it all in hand; particularly ones that have the single-point small dot option.

I had an older dot sight mounted occasionally on a variety of rifles I added the 3X magnifier. The concept was fine; but the 3X increased the dot size and tended to obscure the target. An IER, small dot, low mag scope would be ideal. They are out there, I suppose; I simply don't wanna spend the funds just yet. I'll wait till I can't see w/irons at all anymore ;)

HTH,
Paul

kotengu
November 15, 2008, 10:25
The other big advantage of the scout concept I like is getting the scope out of the way for quick loading - ideally with stripper clips.

The only thing that I don't like about it is I've come to really appreciate a higher powered (even 3-9 power is plenty) scope for target identification when hunting. Maybe a variable power is a good compromise in this case - left on 1x or 2x most of the time, but able to zoom in to better ID things in question.

Or I guess I could just carry a small pair of binoculars...:rolleyes:

W.E.G.
November 15, 2008, 11:23
If you think you might need a rifle in a situation where you will need to reload a full magazine really fast, I have no idea why you would want to mess with modifying a bolt-gun for that application.

ByronF
November 15, 2008, 11:53
I prefer the red dots because they seem more forgiving so far as finding the image. A small amount of parallax with a scope and you see black. End up moving my head around to find the image. I find it much easier to find the image with red dot. And with the dot you can leave both eyes open and the dot magically superimposes itself on the target by way of some trickannery between eyeball and brain. You don't even need a perfect stock weld. However, parallax WILL affect POA vs POI for any optic so the closer you are to viewing the dot dead-center in the tube the more accurate you will be.

W.E.G.
November 15, 2008, 12:30
You can have your cake and eat it too.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=26823&mc_ID=3018

http://www.brownells.com/Images/Products/100003943.jpg

BUFF
November 15, 2008, 13:34
I built a Scout rifle on a Remington Model 7 about 10 years ago. I used a Leupold Scout Scope, which is pretty well the top of the heap for this application. I find it more precise than a red dot set up.

It takes a bit of practice to train yourself but once you have spent a little time mounting the rifle and using the scope you will find that it is really fast.

When Jeff Cooper developed the Scout rifle concept, key to it working was that the rifle be short, relatively light and thus extremely handy. If you are using a standard, full size sporter rifle, you might just as well use a medium power variable, like a 2X7 or 3X9, for big game applications. Hunt with the magnification turned down as most game is shot under 100 yards, and the low setting gives you a wider field of view and makes it easier to acquire your target. Generally, the further away your target is, the less alarmed it will be and you generally have time to crank up the scope's magnification.

Artful
November 15, 2008, 23:59
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/6056/sissypadm38ck3.jpg

http://www.huntersparadiseonline.com/M44%20Desert%20Scout%206.JPG

witchdoctor
November 17, 2008, 22:35
I have been thinking of getting a scout rifles, currently hunting a Rugar M77 Frontier in .308 or 30-06. I have toying with this same dilemma as well. I am thinking about an Aimpoint for this application. I am not worried about making 300-400yrd shots, but closer quick, precise shots. This rifle will serve as bug out / hunting I take it. If that is the case and you are not worried about long range target identification, then the red dot is the obvious answer.

Fn/form
November 18, 2008, 15:23
A scout rifle needs iron sights. The closest I've seen to my liking in stock form (other than Steyr and discontinued Savage) is the "Tanker" Mauser marketed by Mitchell's.

I keep spending that money on other things...

[486]
November 18, 2008, 15:45
I'm saving up for a pistol scope, to mount in the place where the rear sight is on a mosin M-38... If you use a pistol scope the ease of finding one is much easier, it helped me a lot...