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Powerkicker
November 11, 2008, 20:12
...as it reads, the original manufacturer is the party responsible for ensuring the parts count during assembly. Where does it state that a guy who buys such a weapon cannot replace compliance parts with oem parts? Where does it say possesion of a weapon whose compliance parts are swapped out after purchase from a manufacturer is a crime? Where does it say such a weapon is subject to confiscation?

I'm interested in this because I sure have seen an awful lot of non-compliant builds for sale second-hand at gunshows and the like from dealers. Where is the law that supports the view that a third or even fourth owner of a gun is responsible legally for the parts count in the weapon as he purchased it?

tuck0411
November 11, 2008, 21:17
Especially when a lot of OEM parts have no indication of where they were made.... it just seems like a bad law that no prosecutor in his right mind is going to try and apply to someone. Has anyone ever actually been charged under 922r?

2barearms
November 11, 2008, 22:10
There was a dinglebob by the name of Conley a while back that was building
and selling AKs for the most part. From the complaints I read it's a miracle
no one was maimed with something he built. He was turned over to the ATF
and not much happened IIRC, most of his stuff would not have passed muster.
So the short answer is probably not, but no one wants to test the theory on
themselves.

mutter
November 11, 2008, 22:27
You are right for the most part.

Except this:

The second it was built in noncompliance it became illegal and thus confiscatable! It does not matter whom owns it afterwards! You just might get lucky and not be the one charged with the most severe gun charge. Then again, you might not be that lucky.

If it was built within compliance and you decide to change something but don't swap out 1 part for the other inorder to meet compliance then you are immediately in violation.

Why? Because you are now the person that has built an illegal firearm.

You can not simply look under 922 or 922r for the regs. There are at least 3 intertwined laws that are bent and perverted to give the fedgod the ability to prosecute you for any kind of infraction whether it was benign or malicious.

They count on the fact that most of us don't have the nuts, knowledge, or money to fight them. For the most part, they are right.

I'm not one of those. It sounds like you aren't either.

I hope so!

Ley's bring the fight to them!

d_s
November 11, 2008, 23:18
well maybe I just got lucky but I had some mixup during a traffic stop with the local Sherriffs department here in Oregon (thought the fal made of brit parts was a machine gun) that landed a century L1A1 that was definitely not 922r compliant in a BATFE lab back around 2002. They shipped it back without a word about US compliant parts, they just told the sherrif that it wasn't a machine gun, and that the flash hider was an illegal feature that needed to be removed but seeing as that it was a federal infraction but a states case, it was up to the Sherrif to press the issue (or something to that effect). In any case I got the rifle back and all charges were dropped including the ticket for the original moving violation. So take it for what its worth.

LV Hospice RN
November 11, 2008, 23:40
Originally posted by d_s
well maybe I just got lucky but I had some mixup during a traffic stop with the local Sherriffs department here in Oregon (thought the fal made of brit parts was a machine gun) that landed a century L1A1 that was definitely not 922r compliant in a BATFE lab back around 2002. They shipped it back without a word about US compliant parts, they just told the sherrif that it wasn't a machine gun, and that the flash hider was an illegal feature that needed to be removed but seeing as that it was a federal infraction but a states case, it was up to the Sherrif to press the issue (or something to that effect). In any case I got the rifle back and all charges were dropped including the ticket for the original moving violation. So take it for what its worth.

I think your experience is what would most likely happen. If they do charge you for crimes under 922r, i bet a dollar to donuts that those charges are going to be the least of your worries...yes, if you go bananas, spray bullets from your Fal that is equipped with one of those remanufactured DSA parts (tee hee hee), all around a shopping mall, they may indeed charge you with a 922r violation. This maybe opening you up to a maximum of 122 years of jail time as opposed to 117 years if they hadnt charged you with the 922r violation...but again, thats the least of your problems...

Having said that, with the cheap availability of 922r compliance parts, and the potential YEARS of jail time if you happen to be the chosen one for 922 charges, you would be silly not to be in compliance. If on the other hand, i had a chance to buy a potentially non-compliant rifle, i would have no problem buying the thing, disassembling it, and in time, placing the proper 922r parts within...

just imho, ymmv
darrell
phoenix

renaissance_warrior
November 12, 2008, 03:27
I will add, that at this juncture in our economic scenario, an agent bringing a 922r prosecution against an honest non-criminal citizen, would place the agent in an inventory room somewhere. Between the belt-tightening that is going to be coming there, as well as the agencies in general, there are much. much bigger issues to address. The illegals with full-auto weapons in our states near the border come to mind.

In light of current events, that would border on malicious prosecution. Someone doing more hard time for a mis-marked gun part than a child molester would not sit well with the electorate who oversees their budget, not their representatives. That would be a gross mis-managment of resourcess, something taken a lot more seriously now, than a couple years ago.

Stay legal, build right, but don't lose sleep if the parts are in the mail. after all, a barrelled reciever alone, isn't a rifle, and not subject to the rules until assembled. :shades:

fastfreddy
November 12, 2008, 12:44
RW, my experience says otherwise, though not a 922r matter at all.

From my perspective, it looks like we have way too much law enforcement and not enough crime. What's an ambitious ladder climber in the dept to do? Paint a non-event as the crime of the century... that's what.

Maybe it's a matter of a maturing population. Maybe its a matter of gobs of federal money being thrown at local law enforcement. Maybe its just always been the case. The "system" can and will presume gunowners to be guilty until proven innocent if it suits them.

Don't take any chances. Follow the letter of the law.

Powerkicker
November 13, 2008, 12:26
Originally posted by fastfreddy
RW, my experience says otherwise, though not a 922r matter at all.

From my perspective, it looks like we have way too much law enforcement and not enough crime. What's an ambitious ladder climber in the dept to do? Paint a non-event as the crime of the century... that's what.

Maybe it's a matter of a maturing population. Maybe its a matter of gobs of federal money being thrown at local law enforcement. Maybe its just always been the case. The "system" can and will presume gunowners to be guilty until proven innocent if it suits them.

Don't take any chances. Follow the letter of the law.

Which letter of the law places the burden on anyone other than the manufacturer though?

ThunderGod
November 13, 2008, 13:17
Originally posted by Powerkicker


Which letter of the law places the burden on anyone other than the manufacturer though?


The "letter" from the Prosecuting Attorney that has your name on it.

Scott S
November 13, 2008, 15:47
Originally posted by ThunderGod


The "letter" from the Prosecuting Attorney that has your name on it.

That's essentially my take on this issue. Sure, the likelihood of being prosecuted for 922(r) is pretty darned slim, but I'd bet a dime to a donut that the prosecuting entity would have no qualms with holding on to your gun for "safe keeping" while the issue drags out in the courts for a year or so.

So, while in theory we're innocent until proven guilty, I don't really see that playing out in a practical sense.

I'm amazed that your situation, d_s, played out like it did. Glad to hear that it worked out OK for you.

d_s
November 13, 2008, 20:33
I'm amazed that your situation, d_s, played out like it did

Tell you what, that was the scariest month of my life, if I hadn't of been so cooperative and friendly with the sherrif during the incident, I truly believe it would not have gone this way.

Powerkicker
November 14, 2008, 18:44
Originally posted by d_s


Tell you what, that was the scariest month of my life, if I hadn't of been so cooperative and friendly with the sherrif during the incident, I truly believe it would not have gone this way.

Why? Did you build the rifle?

d_s
November 14, 2008, 20:12
No I bought it from some dealer years before, but I really had no idea what to expect, I knew that it had some evil features it wasn't supposed to have and it and even though it was sent to the BATF to be tested as a machine gun, not 922r, paranoia got the best of me and I assumed the worst so, until I got the call from the sherrif a month later saying everything was fine and that he was dropping all charges and to just get rid of the flash hider, I was on edge big time.

USMC 0341
November 14, 2008, 20:46
The situation I would be most worried about with respect to 922r is the scenario where some overzealous law enforcement branch raids my safe, producing an "arsenal" which I would bet will make national news, and gets blown up out of proportion to the facts.

Once the dust settles they would have found out that my machine guns and the suppressor are all legally registered, none of my firearms are stolen property, even the lower on the AR pistol was transferred as such.

At that point they are going to have to start digging. Thay have splashed their raid all over the news and now they need to find something and make it stick. Just one federal issue and they can probably twist it into a felony (whip up some conspiracy charges - find some internet posts where I told other people to ignore 922r). Then they can and will confiscate the whole "arsenal" and parade me in orange for the nightly news.

Gee, why don't I help them out and leave out $50 in US made parts?