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View Full Version : Garand as dedicated sniper rifle?


Heat
November 07, 2008, 00:42
O.K...Ive seen the pics of WW2 Era scoped garands..how accurate were they?
I as well see some nice setups nowadays of forward mounted garands with scout scopes up front--2.75 power--what would be the effective range of this setup? My current Garand will shoot under MOA when handled properly..what could/should I expect with a scout mounted forward?
All advice gladly accepted!!

switchblade7.62x51
November 09, 2008, 09:22
Remember, the Scout concept is made for shot placement out to 300M. For further ranging and shot placement to be acccurate, one needs to mount the proper scope on the rifle. When considering an M1 Garand, the left side affset scope mount, and offset leather cheekpiece are almost mandatory as well as a proper 1907 sling.
I love the MILTECH offering, it just speaks volumes to old school whoop ass
http://www.miltecharms.com/sniper2.jpg

ByronF
November 09, 2008, 10:10
IMO the Garand was the worst sniper rifle ever fielded. In standard form not as accurate as a bolt gun. When massaged it becomes fragile (USGI sniper Garands were not massaged much). Weigh too much. Don't really need semi operation. Semi-auto feeding is not as repeatable as bolt feeding. Too much rattly junk hangin off an M1C or D.

A scout Garand should be similarly accurate to performance with irons. Hanging more stuff on the barrel might cause a change in accuracy, but the magnification should more than make up for it. If you want an accurate Garand, the Scout concept is interesting. If you want an accurate rifle the Garand probably isn't the best platform to start with, though they can be remarkably accurate if you spend enough money and effort on it.

Byron

Survey Punk
November 09, 2008, 11:02
I've got a "D" I built up from parts and can hit a metal target at 800yds all day from a sling supported prone position with M1 ball spec stuff. The target is bright orange and if I had to look for you standing out in the open I'd be hard pressed to see you let alone hit you with that dinky scope.
The M1 will hit at range with minor tweaking.
I've got a 1" Griffin and Howe mount and toying with building another scoped M1 but that one sits on the shelf behind the back burner.

JB

Steggo
November 09, 2008, 15:12
"Accurizing" and otherwise adapting an issue miltary rifle into a sniper rifle is a losing proposition. Even the US military finally figured that out.

The better path is to militarize an accurate target rifle.

A Savage bolt gun from Walmart would be a better choice if your goal is an accurate field rifle.

ByronF
November 09, 2008, 17:19
Who remembers when AIM was selling Danish M1D kits for $350? Man, should have bought all they had. Did second best thing and bought just one. Got an M84 from CMP for something ridiculous like $150. Got a USGI cheekpiece from CMP for $75. CMP WWII era SA receiver for $150. Repro scope mount $75. USGI cone FH for $75. Sits in the safe but it's nice to handle every once in a while.

PennsylvaniaLongRifle
November 09, 2008, 23:17
Originally posted by ByronF
Sits in the safe but it's nice to handle every once in a while.

Too bad the wife made you take it out of the China Cabinet...
I thought it looked great there!

ByronF
November 10, 2008, 20:08
Nah, that's my CMP Sunday-go-to-meetin' Garand in the china cabinet (along with the steel pot, canteen, and dummy grenade). The M1D is sort of like the farm girl down the road. She ain't too pretty but has lots of fun equipment. So I bring her out of the safe when nobody is looking.

DANG! I just looked over at the china cabinet and my Harley jugs and valves have been displaced by long stem glasses! My tobacco pipe is missing, too! And my 1942 printing of a Zane Gray cowboy book. This woman has some strange ideas about what belongs in a china cabinet.

Byron

renaissance_warrior
November 10, 2008, 22:36
The farm girl was named 'Harley'? I think I new her once, great jugs indeed. A worthy trophy. :tongue:

PA Garand Boy
November 11, 2008, 10:44
Originally posted by ByronF
The M1D is sort of like the farm girl down the road. She ain't too pretty but has lots of fun equipment. So I bring her out of the safe when nobody is looking.


Byron

After a couple of dates you'll find her to be dumb, lazy, uncoordinated, costing more money than she is worth and not that great in the sack.

W.E.G.
November 11, 2008, 10:56
The M1 can be a fine marksman's rifle.

But, the marksman will have to work a lot harder than he would if he were equipped with a different rifle.

ByronF
November 11, 2008, 14:43
Originally posted by PA Garand Boy


After a couple of dates you'll find her to be dumb, lazy, uncoordinated, costing more money than she is worth and not that great in the sack.

And more than a little too heavy. Some would call her big-boned. Others say she has a good personality, or a pretty face.

StoneyCreekMrMauser
November 11, 2008, 15:21
She has nice eyes.:tongue:

PA Garand Boy
November 11, 2008, 16:32
Originally posted by StoneyCreekMrMauser
She has nice eyes.:tongue:

If crossed eyes turn you on :uhoh:

Douglas S Graham
November 11, 2008, 20:04
I suppose the M1 was a failure in ww2. Sigh.

DABTL
December 06, 2008, 09:01
I had posted about the last of the Garand snipers, with the Weaver K4-60B scope.

The Garand as a sniper was poor at best. In its day most sniper rifles were poor, however, with some notable exceptions.

I came across these pics the other day, and since it is easier to copy them than to dig mine out and take pics, here is the rifle.

On the mount side you can see the mount is the same as the M84 scope, only this one is 1" as opposed to the 7/8" on the M84 mount.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/dabtl/M1DWeaver.jpg

From the other side.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/dabtl/M1DWeaver2.jpg

And, finally the over all shape.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/dabtl/M1DWeaver3.jpg


The irony is the Weaver Scope is a few dollars, the M84 around $500 plus while the M84 mount runs about $150 up to $200, the 1" mount for the Weaver Scope goes for $1500+

These scopes were unknown basically until CMP released them years ago.

The story is this was developed about 1968, at the end of the life span of the Garand as an issue weapon for the Guard.

ByronF
December 06, 2008, 11:34
Originally posted by Douglas S Graham
I suppose the M1 was a failure in ww2. Sigh.

Let's stick to the "D". Nothing was said regarding the regular old M1. I tend to agree with Patton's assessment of the M1. I do not hold the M1D in such high regard. I counter your "sigh" with a hiss and a boo, so with a tip of the hat and a click of the heels I bid good day to you, Sir.

SwampFox320
December 14, 2008, 15:06
I agree with the above, sniper Garands... ehhh... not so hot, sexy looking, but not so hot. But the Garand wasn't ever meant to be a sniper weapon. It was designed to be the AK of the American forces in WWII. Dropped in the mud, banged around, dropped from planes, poorly taken care of and keep on ticking. Now it wasn't as good as the AK at that but it is/was fantastic and could take a beating. I love mine! And yes they are heavy but come one, men walked across N. Africa, Europe, and the Pacific carrying them and their ammo, must not be too bad.

Swampy

Ssarge
December 14, 2008, 15:41
The M1 not so hot as a sniper rifle. Tell that to my retired Marine Col. bud. He was a young PFC in Korea in 1950 and used a sniper Garand to cap a bunch of N. Koreans and Chinese.
We still had M1C and D in our armory as late as '77. They shot quite well. (1st Squadron 7th Cavalry 1st Cavalry Division)
Personally I'll take my info from someone that used the C&D in combat over opinions of arm chair commando's every time...:rolleyes:

DABTL
December 14, 2008, 16:04
Originally posted by Ssarge
The M1 not so hot as a sniper rifle. Tell that to my retired Marine Col. bud. He was a young PFC in Korea in 1950 and used a sniper Garand to cap a bunch of N. Koreans and Chinese.
We still had M1C and D in our armory as late as '77. They shot quite well. (1st Squadron 7th Cavalry 1st Cavalry Division)
Personally I'll take my info from someone that used the C&D in combat over opinions of arm chair commando's every time...:rolleyes:

The M1C was marginally better than the D version because of the sight mount. Mine is somewhat more accurate than the D.

The Marines used a variation called the MC1. It had a good scope, unlike the Army stuff.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/dabtl/MC-1.gif

V guy
December 31, 2008, 12:27
I had a real "D" in ex condition back in '91 and it was a dog as a shooter....irons were more accurate than that scope...I sold it for $850 which was good money at the time.....I also had an 03A4 that got into a 1941 Johnson deal I'd rather forget about...A4 is ugliest rifle I ever owned..was pristine so I never shot it...got rid of that too...

ByronF
January 01, 2009, 13:36
Originally posted by Ssarge
The M1 not so hot as a sniper rifle. Tell that to my retired Marine Col. bud. He was a young PFC in Korea in 1950 and used a sniper Garand to cap a bunch of N. Koreans and Chinese.
We still had M1C and D in our armory as late as '77. They shot quite well. (1st Squadron 7th Cavalry 1st Cavalry Division)
Personally I'll take my info from someone that used the C&D in combat over opinions of arm chair commando's every time...:rolleyes:

Deadly, yes. A great sniper, no. Garands are decently accurate and I'm sure a good rifleman can put quite a few unfriendlies in a dirt-nap with one. That doesn't make it an excellent sniper weapon, though. Loose handguards and a loose cone flopping around on the muzzle doesn't help accuracy. Facts are facts, and even a match-tuned Garand can't hang with a well built bolt gun. Don't need combat experience to just know some things. No more than my owning an M1D makes me an unquestionable expert.

FN74
January 01, 2009, 14:00
No garands were ever fielded as dedicated sniper weapons in WW2.

Stick with a bolt gun for that duty. Bear in mind however that a decent garand with a good barrel will ring 800meter gongs all day long with GI ball ammo and iron sights....

Sights on the garand probably the best ever made IMHO.

Second option would be a M1A build into a sniping platform, however you'll get less than optimal results for far more money than an equal rem700 build with good glass.