45 LC as defensive hunting round? [Archive]

BUFF

October 18, 2008, 09:00

The tradtional Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt is stronger than the .45 Colt revolvers made by S&W and Colt (except possibly Colt's d.a. Anaconda). It will handle some stout handloads. Most modern reloading manuals divide their .45 Colt data into power levels for the S&W and Colt SAA and New Service sixguns (traditional factory ammo power levels, about a 250 grain bullet at about 850 fps) and then more powerful data for the Ruger Blackhawk and T/C Contender single shots. The hotter data often shows the same 250 grain bullets leaving the Ruger barrel at about 1,100 or 1,200 fps.

I can't tell from your photo but Ruger is making a new series of Blackhawk/Vaquero revolvers that have a smaller frame and cylinder than the traditional Super Blackhawk/Blackhawk/Vaquero. These aren't as strong as the bigger, heavier Rugers and should use standard pressure ammo and handloads.

Starline brass is of excellent quality.

The .45 Colt cartridge doesn't need to be hot-loaded to be effective. It gets it's power from it's heavy, large-diameter bullet. Folks like gunsmith Hamilton Bowen and gunwriter Lane Pearce note repeatedly that a standard power loading of a flat-faced 250 grain cast SWC bullet at 850-900 fps will penetrate most big western mule deer and wild boar completely, side to side.

Heat

October 18, 2008, 12:18

Originally posted by BUFF
The tradtional Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt is stronger than the .45 Colt revolvers made by S&W and Colt (except possibly Colt's d.a. Anaconda). It will handle some stout handloads. Most modern reloading manuals divide their .45 Colt data into power levels for the S&W and Colt SAA and New Service sixguns (traditional factory ammo power levels, about a 250 grain bullet at about 850 fps) and then more powerful data for the Ruger Blackhawk and T/C Contender single shots. The hotter data often shows the same 250 grain bullets leaving the Ruger barrel at about 1,100 or 1,200 fps.

I can't tell from your photo but Ruger is making a new series of Blackhawk/Vaquero revolvers that have a smaller frame and cylinder than the traditional Super Blackhawk/Blackhawk/Vaquero. These aren't as strong as the bigger, heavier Rugers and should use standard pressure ammo and handloads.

Starline brass is of excellent quality.

The .45 Colt cartridge doesn't need to be hot-loaded to be effective. It gets it's power from it's heavy, large-diameter bullet. Folks like gunsmith Hamilton Bowen and gunwriter Lane Pearce note repeatedly that a standard power loading of a flat-faced 250 grain cast SWC bullet at 850-900 fps will penetrate most big western mule deer and wild boar completely, side to side.

I am PRETTY sure I was ordered the 'new' superblack-hawk--and this is supposed to be the pic..dammit, if I cannot shoot stout loads like are mentioned in my Speer catalog I dont want it..why would Ruger do something like that?

Illurian00

October 18, 2008, 12:59

A friend of mine has a Ruger Bisley, 7-1/2" bbl. in 45LC,,,shoots 300 grn. cast boolits in it,,,and anything else he feels like :rofl: He's killed a few deer w/ it, no probs.

I've shot it a bit w/ the 300 grn. load hopped up on H-110,,,very powerful.

ggiilliiee

October 18, 2008, 15:22

if ya shoot one in a 45lc /.410 Derringer ..wear sunglasses ...ask me how i know hehe

LV Hospice RN

October 18, 2008, 15:42

Originally posted by BUFF
The tradtional Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt is stronger than the .45 Colt revolvers made by S&W and Colt (except possibly Colt's d.a. Anaconda). It will handle some stout handloads. Most modern reloading manuals divide their .45 Colt data into power levels for the S&W and Colt SAA and New Service sixguns (traditional factory ammo power levels, about a 250 grain bullet at about 850 fps) and then more powerful data for the Ruger Blackhawk and T/C Contender single shots. The hotter data often shows the same 250 grain bullets leaving the Ruger barrel at about 1,100 or 1,200 fps.

I can't tell from your photo but Ruger is making a new series of Blackhawk/Vaquero revolvers that have a smaller frame and cylinder than the traditional Super Blackhawk/Blackhawk/Vaquero. These aren't as strong as the bigger, heavier Rugers and should use standard pressure ammo and handloads.

Starline brass is of excellent quality.

The .45 Colt cartridge doesn't need to be hot-loaded to be effective. It gets it's power from it's heavy, large-diameter bullet. Folks like gunsmith Hamilton Bowen and gunwriter Lane Pearce note repeatedly that a standard power loading of a flat-faced 250 grain cast SWC bullet at 850-900 fps will penetrate most big western mule deer and wild boar completely, side to side.

I agree, this load dont need "hot rodded". The deer thats hit with big ole 250 grain chunk of lead WITH PROPER PLACEMENT wont know the difference if its travelling at 850 fps or 1200 fps.

just imho, ymmv
darrell
phoenix

skwang

October 18, 2008, 18:24

The new vaquero is smaller, for the CAS crowd. I think the black hawk is the same size as the older frame but I duno for sure.

I have an old vaquero and was quite into hot loads a while ago. I have recently been enjoying the standard loads lately though. I still keep a few heavy loads on had for when I feel I need to be "loaded for bear" in a wildlife protection use. For the fuzz the heavy loads (with proper bullet) is more capable of deeper penetration. Though for just hunting the hotter loads my not be necessary it will flatten the trajectory and increase your range a bit.

gunplumber

October 18, 2008, 18:35

I really like the .45 Colt. On the new vaquero, I don't think it comes with adjustable rear sight. Nothing wrong with the old vaquero - its a stout gun, just not "period" enough for the CAS crowd. I'm using ubertis now, but wouldn't turn down a set of new vaqueros if the price was right - nice to have the ability to make the cylinder spin both ways when loading from horseback.

Heat

October 18, 2008, 20:16

Just got back from the gunstore--hefted the blackhawk in .357 4 5/8" barrel..stainless--same size as what Im buying..the .45 CAN handle the loads accoridng to the staff...'new' blackhawk refers to the pistols made after 1973...so I can load the heavies!

LV Hospice RN

October 18, 2008, 20:29

Originally posted by Heat
Just got back from the gunstore--hefted the blackhawk in .357 4 5/8" barrel..stainless--same size as what Im buying..the .45 CAN handle the loads accoridng to the staff...'new' blackhawk refers to the pistols made after 1973...so I can load the heavies!

Why?

If you want a magnum buy a magnum. While the gun may handle the pressure, your cases arent designed for that kind of pressure. Do you have friends that shoot .45 LC? If just one round of any of that "hot rodded" ammo you load gets in their guns, that can equal "kaboom".

As i said, a deer isnt going to know the difference between the 250 grain slug going either 900 fps or 1200 fps. Having said that, a charging bear probably wont either...but unlike the case with the deer, he will keep coming.

just imho, ymmv
darrell
phoenix

Heat

October 18, 2008, 20:39

Originally posted by LV Hospice RN

Why?

If you want a magnum buy a magnum. While the gun may handle the pressure, your cases arent designed for that kind of pressure. Do you have friends that shoot .45 LC? If just one round of any of that "hot rodded" ammo you load gets in their guns, that can equal "kaboom".

As i said, a deer isnt going to know the difference between the 250 grain slug going either 900 fps or 1200 fps. Having said that, a charging bear probably wont either...but unlike the case with the deer, he will keep coming.

just imho, ymmv
darrell
phoenix
I was looking in the reloading manuals and they all seem to have special load data for 'Rugers only' and 'Contenders only'---45 LC can be loaded hotter with these guns..I am not going to even load to the max, just heavier than normal..and not all the time..just with these pistols you CAN so I want to go that route as the 45.LC seems to be able to as well accomodate a heavier bullet than the 44 mag..Ive just always been intrigued by the .45 that was so popular in the old west and now with todays technology we can truly see what it can do..but I will not load to true magnum standards..all withing safe standards

BUFF

October 19, 2008, 03:20

Originally posted by LV Hospice RN:

"While the gun may handle the pressure, your cases arent designed for that kind of pressure."

Actually, the .45 Colt brass made in the U.S. since they quit making the balloonhead cases are just like the .44 Mag cases. If you section one of each, you can see the brass is just as thick in the primer/case head area and case walls.

I agree with Darrell that if you want a Magnum, buy a Magnum, but up-loading the .45 Colt to .44 Mag pressures in the Ruger has been done, usually safely, for 35 years or so, since the .45 Colt Ruger Blackhawk has been made and sold.

The higher velocities give the shooter not just more power but a flatter trajectory, making good hits in vital area a lot easier at 100 yards.

Yes, it can be done, is done, all the time, but I don't do it.

LV Hospice RN

October 19, 2008, 11:22

Originally posted by BUFF
Originally posted by LV Hospice RN:

"While the gun may handle the pressure, your cases arent designed for that kind of pressure."

Actually, the .45 Colt brass made in the U.S. since they quit making the balloonhead cases are just like the .44 Mag cases. If you section one of each, you can see the brass is just as thick in the primer/case head area and case walls.

I agree with Darrell that if you want a Magnum, buy a Magnum, but , since the .45 Colt Ruger Blackhawk has been made and sold.

The higher velocities give the shooter not just more power but a flatter trajectory, making good hits in vital area a lot easier at 100 yards.

Yes, it can be done, is done, all the time, but I don't do it.

i have two points about your post. The statement, "up-loading the .45 Colt to .44 Mag pressures in the Ruger has been done, usually safely, for 35 years or so". "Usually safely" is the key word here. IF you inspect each case to ensure you dont have an old balloon head one, IF you guard them with your life to keep someone else from getting one in their gun, etc, etc, etc.

As far as the higher velocities giving a flatter tranjectory, thats a great theory which i understand, but can you reliably hit the vital area at 100 with an, i assume, unscoped handgun in hunting situations?????

Much better than i am.

just imho, ymmv
darrell
phoenix

Para Driver

October 19, 2008, 21:00

Originally posted by BUFF
if you want a Magnum, buy a Magnum,.

why push your luck, statistically you 'may be okay' 99.9% of the time, meaning that only 1 in 1000 rounds goes KB... but will it be #7, #333 or #652?

don't horse around with 'outhinking' the loading books..

Temp

October 20, 2008, 10:52

Originally posted by LV Hospice RN

i have two points about your post. The statement, "up-loading the .45 Colt to .44 Mag pressures in the Ruger has been done, usually safely, for 35 years or so". "Usually safely" is the key word here. IF you inspect each case to ensure you dont have an old balloon head one, IF you guard them with your life to keep someone else from getting one in their gun, etc, etc, etc.

As far as the higher velocities giving a flatter tranjectory, thats a great theory which i understand, but can you reliably hit the vital area at 100 with an, i assume, unscoped handgun in hunting situations?????

Much better than i am.

just imho, ymmv
darrell
phoenix

Go watch an IHMSA match someday. You'll see people grouping shots at 200 meters with open sighted revolvers,...with boring regularity.

With a bit of practice, the 100 meter line is just a technicality that you have to go through before moving on to the 150 and 200 meter targets.

owlcreekok

October 20, 2008, 12:12

Originally posted by Temp

Go watch an IHMSA match someday. You'll see people grouping shots at 200 meters with open sighted revolvers,...with boring regularity.

With a bit of practice, the 100 meter line is just a technicality that you have to go through before moving on to the 150 and 200 meter targets.

In my prime of shooting steel, 50 meter chickens were simply a necessary chore. After the first season I rarely did NOT go clean through them.

100 meter pigs, *yawn*

150 meter Turkeys remained a challenge. If not missed outright, I would spin one. Still went clean through them a few times and rarely dropped more than two.

One day, while shooting revolver class (.44 Mag Super Blackhawk that I own to this day) I went clean through everything until the last five Rams. Never forget that day. It was the same day I watched Josie Engel shoot a 40 x 40 with a T/C .44 mag.

Standing.

:bow:

Temp

October 20, 2008, 22:45

We had some serious shooters at the club where I used to play the IHMSA game. There were guys there who would go home and beat the wife if they didn't shoot a 40.

Chuck Young, an unlimited class national champion from back in the late 80's shot there.

The best I ever did was a 38 shooting a Dan Wesson 8 3/8" .44 mag,..with cast bullets,..RCBS 44-240 SIL.

I missed 2 of those oddball shaped turkeys at the 150 line. Everything else went down.

LV Hospice RN

October 20, 2008, 22:48

Temp

October 20, 2008, 23:15

Originally posted by LV Hospice RN

your skills could best mine...

just imho, ymmv
darrell
phoenix

Probably not,... not anymore.

I did most of my serious handgun shooting back in the late 80's and my eyes and skills have deteriorated since then.

But I've seen enough to know that big bore handguns can be used as effective 100 yard hunting instruments,....provided that the person holding it has prepared himself.

BUFF

October 21, 2008, 09:27

Originally posted by Para Driver:

"don't horse around with 'outhinking' the loading books."

Using the much-tested data published by the established component makers, correctly assembling the cartridges with attention to detail, and you aren't going to ka-boom your strong-as-hell Ruger. You can shoot the big .45 Colt loads in it until the cows come home with no problems, and then you can use more to shoot the cows.

Blue Monster

October 21, 2008, 15:30

Put a "Super" in front of the Blackhawk and shoot .44 mag. It's a much better plan than hot loading .45LC.

Oh, it's on the way...
in that case, my: .45LC is my favorite shooting revolver (and the most accurate), I agree 850-900 fps with 230gr is just fine. I actually load mine to 800 fps but it's a SSA not a Ruger.

Run it at regular pressures, the pros of the hot loads just don't seem worth it. No much bang for the buck and it's accurate already.

IMHO Ruger makes the best and toughest revolvers, you can't go wrong regardless.

Nice six gun!

Heat

October 21, 2008, 20:51

Originally posted by Blue Monster
Put a "Super" in front of the Blackhawk and shoot .44 mag. It's a much better plan than hot loading .45LC.

Oh, it's on the way...
in that case, my: .45LC is my favorite shooting revolver (and the most accurate), I agree 850-900 fps with 230gr is just fine. I actually load mine to 800 fps but it's a SSA not a Ruger.

Run it at regular pressures, the pros of the hot loads just don't seem worth it. No much bang for the buck and it's accurate already.

IMHO Ruger makes the best and toughest revolvers, you can't go wrong regardless.

Nice six gun!

I suppose I wont load it hot often..more than likely, being the stingy, cheap bastard I am..counting every single grain of powder, I will load to normal levels and be done with it..but I imagine I'll get a hankering once in a blue moon to load one a little hotter than normal..when I first bought my 1911 and started loading for it I was more than pleased with factory type loading..and with all these bigbore pistols I am certainly impressed with their accuracy--It will be nice owning such a robust, tough pistol

rezman

October 21, 2008, 21:21

Congrats on the hogleg acqusition.

You have the finest 45 made for the common man on the planet. My first big bore sixgun as a matter of fact. I grew up reading Elmer Keith in Guns and Ammo. Back in 1973, at 15, I used my summer sprinkler changing money, and a little influence on my mom, to get an Old Model 45 in 7 1/2" from a local funstore, I still remember the owner trying to tell me I would be happier with a 357 mag, and a Lyman reloading set up with a Keith bullet mould from Gander Mountain mail order.

I have shot lots of the 900 fps cast bullet loads in it, but went through a phase of hot rodding it. How about a 250 gr Speer jacketed over a healthy charge of H 110? Clocked out at 1400 fps out of mine. Casings either dropped free or fell out with a light kiss of the ejector. Shot a five point bull elk at 75 yards, went all the way through. He made it about fifty yards before piling up. Deer usually went down like someone hit the light switch.

These things can take the heat, and can exceed 44 power (bigger, heavier bullet at lower pressure). These days, I usually shoot 300 gr at about 1000 fps. I beleive you could disable most car engine blocks with this load, it will shoot through a 16" pine tree, and I wouldn't want to be standing on the other side.

Check out www.sixgunner.com

Good luck, be safe, and work up your loads in your gun.

rezman

Don Williams

October 22, 2008, 16:34

I use a smith 25 and the Ruger Vaquero. Both run fine with the Lee 250 Gr Flat point. Nice meplat. I'm loading 9 grains of Unique. It's all I'm gonna put thru the Smith and runs fine in the Ruger. Haven't shot anything but paper and rocks. It runs as well as I can see.

davedude

October 22, 2008, 22:05

Anyone have any info on these pistols and the .45 LC

Nope, other than it oughta be a real sweet shooter and I am jealous. Been wanting one of those AND a superblackhawk in .44mag for a long time.

Dave Dude

Right Side Up

October 22, 2008, 23:15

I carried a 4" Ruger .45 Blackhawk to Wyoming this year as bear defense. It had 300 grain LBT's in it with H110 powder. Not the hottest load in the book, but a serious one. I felt safe carrying it.

azpatriot

October 23, 2008, 01:53

I purchased one of the new Ruger 4" Redhawks in .45 LC at the beginning of the year and have fired magnum pressure loads out of the same brass since.

http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/images/Products/351L.jpg

I'm shooting 250 grain hollow points and jacketed wad cutters at nearly 1400 fps at just over 28,500 psi with absolutely no discernible deformation to the cases. I'm using standard starline nickel brass and the spent cases always just fall out of the cylinder and the primers are never deformed. Modern manufactured brass for the 45lc can more than handle the pressures. The reason for this is because of the many years invested into the .454 Casual which started off as modified extra heavy cylinders in heavy 45 LC frames. Due to those early experiments and tests into maximizing the 45 LC's potential the cases where redesigned to specifically handle the high pressures. Eventually a modified 45 LC case was designed for the .454 casual round that not only made use of the new manufacturing processes but changed the primer from a large pistol to small rifle primer and added .100" to the case length.

It is easier for manufacturers to start from stock that is strong enough for the Casual round and just stamp the primer pocket and head stamp and trim to the appropriate length for the finished caliber of ammo. Because of that we get the strengths and benefits of the higher pressure round incorporated into the brass for a normal 45 LC. So as long as you are using modern brass you'll be ok just stay within the maximum gas pressure specifications for your firearm. If you don't know what that specification is then contact the firearm manufacturer and ask them before doing anything else.

I also own a 5.5" Ruger Blackhawk in .45 LC but would probably never shoot this ammo out of that firearm, not because it wouldn't handle the rounds but because of the style of grip. If your going to shoot magum pressure rounds out of your new blackhawk you might want to start on the low side and work your way up to see just how much rollback your going to get out of it.

As always be safe and have fun. I know you'll get a kick (no pun intended) out of your new Blackhawk they're a great gun.

STGThndr

October 25, 2008, 09:10

I saw the use of a carbine/pistol round and settled on a .44 mag pre- safety Puma carbine and a Colt-clone Uberti. I keep the loads for the pistol seperate from the carbine rounds and mark the hot carbine loads with permanent red marker around the primer. Even the pistol round packs a wallop in that carbine, tho. I dont shoot the cowboy deals but I like the combo idea and I like the .44 mag.

owlcreekok

October 25, 2008, 10:01

I skimmed an article I found by Googling this morning that was along the same lines as I recall. I did not absorb it fully. Seems the writer had chosen a .357 mag chambered Trapper carbine to go with his wheelguns. Seems he opined that the handgun loadings fell short of performing up to snuff in the carbine length barrel. So, he went on about loads for heavier bullets in the carbine, more powder, etc etc etc.

I trailed off in a different direction at that point as I am more interested in trying to hurt myself with .45 LC in single action revolver and (possible future acquisition of) lever carbine.

Lucky

October 25, 2008, 15:10

In my Blackhawk and my S&W 625 Mountain Gun my standard practicing load is 8.5 grs of unique over a 255 gr hard cast semi-wadcutter..My go to load for serious work in the Blackhawk is 16.2 grs of 2400 and a 250 gr HDY XTP HP, for around 1150 fps, in the S&W I back that down to 15 grs of 2400 for about 1000 fps just to be on the safe side..I also have a Super RedHawk .44 Mag & and a GP100 .357 Mag and I don't believe you can wear out a Ruger, at least I haven't..The Blackhawk will handle stout loads no doubt, but always use caution..

BUFF

October 25, 2008, 22:12

All of my .45 Colts are either Colts (SAA's and a New Service) or S&W's (Model 25's, 625's and a Hamilton Bowen-converted .38-44 Heavy Duty). They were manufactured with the traditional .45 Colt load in mind. My handloads pretty well duplicate them, with 8.5 grains of Unique under a cast SWC of about 260 grains (Lyman 454424), or the traditional conical, swaged bullets from W-W or R-P you can find in bulk, or the swaged Speer 250 gr. SWC. At about 825-850 fps, that handles most of my .45 Colt needs.

None of them are anywhere near as strong as the Ruger Blackhawks and original Vaquero's.

It's a great cartridge.

LV Hospice RN

October 26, 2008, 01:24

Here check this table out i found by goggling load data for the 45 LC...

If you guys want to "hot rod" this fine old round, and hope no one else some how gets one of your "souped up" load, so be it...

http://www.realguns.com/loads/45colt.htm

All you guys with your "wimp" loads that get a measly 850-900 fps out of your gun should bow your head in shame...There's no need for MAGNUM caliber when we can simply pour more 2400 in the case and get OVER 1300 fps out of muzzle.

Check this top load out, 240 grain bullet, 21.3 grains of 2400 powder. NOW there's a man's load!!!!! Never mind that if somehow ONE loaded round ends up one of the NUMEROUS weaker revolvers than cant handle it, KABOOM!!!!

We sure gave THAT GUY a bit of excitement...sorry about his ruined gun...not to mention face...

Just imho, ymmv, with extreme sarcasm...
darrell
phoenix

skwang

October 26, 2008, 02:11

Originally posted by LV Hospice RN
Here check this table out i found by goggling load data for the 45 LC...

If you guys want to "hot rod" this fine old round, and hope no one else some how gets one of your "souped up" load, so be it...

http://www.realguns.com/loads/45colt.htm

All you guys with your "wimp" loads that get a measly 850-900 fps out of your gun should bow your head in shame...There's no need for MAGNUM caliber when we can simply pour more 2400 in the case and get OVER 1300 fps out of muzzle.

Check this top load out, 240 grain bullet, 21.3 grains of 2400 powder. NOW there's a man's load!!!!! Never mind that if somehow ONE loaded round ends up one of the NUMEROUS weaker revolvers than cant handle it, KABOOM!!!!

We sure gave THAT GUY a bit of excitement...sorry about his ruined gun...not to mention face...

Just imho, ymmv, with extreme sarcasm...
darrell
phoenix

If someone is picking up rounds at a range and using them or filching out of your stash a kaboom may be an excellent learning opportunity for them about the dangers of using ammo of dubious origin. Worst part of this scenario is that idiots often harm those around them as well.

If you are giving ammo out make sure you know what load it is and make it known to who you are giving it to. Should you be letting others fire your hand loads (especially heavy loads you have worked up to in your gun and decided are safe for You with that gun)?

There are very good reasons to use a heavier load. One of the best is adaptability I can have one gun that is a pleasure to shoot all day long then with a reload have a gun that has as much punch as I will likely need. If I need more oomph than a prescribed, proven safe "ruger" only load I will think about a more powerful cartridge.

joe4570

November 10, 2008, 09:42

Originally posted by Heat
I have been hearing some impressive things about the 45LC as a hunting/defensive round lately, when fired from a heavy duty modern .45 like the Ruger...so I bought this pistol and it should arrive next week..
http://i35.tinypic.com/2emkbc0.jpg
Anyone have any info on these pistols and the .45 LC as well as opinions on Starline brass? I see it is cheaper than others..

Heat -

Normally these types of treads make me smile and I just ignore them, but there is so much bad information here I wouldn't feel right not commenting.

There are many cartridges that have been improved to operate at modern smokeless powder pressure levels through handloading and do so routinely. The .45 Colt is very much like the .45-70 Gov't, 8mm Mauser and 257 Roberts etc. in this regard. While you are getting lots of "advice", you may want to weigh it against every mainstream handloading manual that has been published over the past 30 years. All include a section specifically for the Ruger Blackhawk for higher pressure, but safe, handloads in 45 Colt. Not only do these companies have to be concerned with how they look to the public, they have to be concerned with product liability issues. You may want to call Sierra, or Speer or Hornady and talk through the issue with one of their technical people so you can get your questions properly addressed.

The handloads published on our site do not stray far from the published data noted above and we use strain gauge, universal receiver and the noted firearms for load development. Each data set is backed by a multipart project article that explains in great detail circumstances and basis for load data. I shoot and hunt with these handloads in my personal .45 Colt guns, both single and double action Ruger revolvers as well as a Winchester Trapper. As correctly noted by others, the current crop of CAS Ruger guns are built on a smaller frame and have thinner cylinders to more approximate the feel of a Colt SAA for use in action shooting events. The picture you have posted in not one of these small frame revolvers.

A great place to reseach the issue from a source that developed high pressure 45 Colt loads in conjunction with White Laboratories is http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm Linebaugh has an incredible reputation as a gunsmith and a long history of working with the Colt cartridge. It is also a good place to get a handle on the nature of H110 and W296 powders.

In regard to why anyone would want to push handload the 45 Colt, I have no idea why in this tread someone would suggest that a 50% improvement in velocity that reduces time and flight, flattenes trajectory and increases momentum for increased penetration would not be of benefit. The standard .45 Colt load, intended as a black powder equivalent is barely useful as a deer cartridge and then only at close ranges.

In regard to someone who said, "What if someone picked up a cartridge and shot it and didn't know it was a heavy handload..." You've got to be kidding me. What blithering idiot would pick up an unidentified range round and load it in their firearm and who the heck is leaving handloads on the ground at the range? This is like the disclaimer I recently read in an instruction manual for a Sears power saw, "Do not put the spinning blade near your face".

Heat

November 10, 2008, 11:35

Originally posted by joe4570

Heat -

Normally these types of treads make me smile and I just ignore them, but there is so much bad information here I wouldn't feel right not commenting.

There are many cartridges that have been improved to operate at modern smokeless powder pressure levels through handloading and do so routinely. The .45 Colt is very much like the .45-70 Gov't, 8mm Mauser and 257 Roberts etc. in this regard. While you are getting lots of "advice", you may want to weigh it against every mainstream handloading manual that has been published over the past 30 years. All include a section specifically for the Ruger Blackhawk for higher pressure, but safe, handloads in 45 Colt. Not only do these companies have to be concerned with how they look to the public, they have to be concerned with product liability issues. You may want to call Sierra, or Speer or Hornady and talk through the issue with one of their technical people so you can get your questions properly addressed.

The handloads published on our site do not stray far from the published data noted above and we use strain gauge, universal receiver and the noted firearms for load development. Each data set is backed by a multipart project article that explains in great detail circumstances and basis for load data. I shoot and hunt with these handloads in my personal .45 Colt guns, both single and double action Ruger revolvers as well as a Winchester Trapper. As correctly noted by others, the current crop of CAS Ruger guns are built on a smaller frame and have thinner cylinders to more approximate the feel of a Colt SAA for use in action shooting events. The picture you have posted in not one of these small frame revolvers.

A great place to reseach the issue from a source that developed high pressure 45 Colt loads in conjunction with White Laboratories is http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm Linebaugh has an incredible reputation as a gunsmith and a long history of working with the Colt cartridge. It is also a good place to get a handle on the nature of H110 and W296 powders.

In regard to why anyone would want to push handload the 45 Colt, I have no idea why in this tread someone would suggest that a 50% improvement in velocity that reduces time and flight, flattenes trajectory and increases momentum for increased penetration would not be of benefit. The standard .45 Colt load, intended as a black powder equivalent is barely useful as a deer cartridge and then only at close ranges.

In regard to someone who said, "What if someone picked up a cartridge and shot it and didn't know it was a heavy handload..." You've got to be kidding me. What blithering idiot would pick up an unidentified range round and load it in their firearm and who the heck is leaving handloads on the ground at the range? This is like the disclaimer I recently read in an instruction manual for a Sears power saw, "Do not put the spinning blade near your face".
Thanks Joe, very useful info..I started reading thru the load data for this particular round and this particular handgun in my Speer manual..the handgun I bought is in fact the exact same as the picture provided and is built to take the extra pressure..I will closely follow the load data provided..thanks again!

Rocket 6R

November 15, 2008, 22:11

I have a Ruger S/S Black Hawk in .45LC in 4 5/8" barrel. I decided to get the S/S model since some shooters complained of heavy loads stripping out there frame screws on the blued guns (alloy/aluminum frame).

I shoot 335 LBT's with 21gr. of H110. They chrono out at 1175 fps.

I read Linebaugh's articals a long time ago and I'm a believer that the .45LC will out do the .44 mag (bullet weights, pressure, etc.).

*I think it was one of Linebaugh's articals where he says to use Starline brass since they are thicker/stronger. I bought 250 cases of Starline for reloading about 8 years ago and I have not had any problems with them shooting the heavy loads.

ByronF

November 16, 2008, 06:53

I think you should all pull the bullets and dump the powder from your 7.62x51 surplus. I have a small ring Spanish FR7 Mauser in 7.62 with long headspace and I'm likely to pocket your ammo when you aren't looking. My lawyer will be in contact.

What about 7.62 Garand guys accidentally loading 7.62 into someone elses 30-06? What would happen if I put a hot 30-06 hunting load into a 30-06 Ackley Improved chamber? What would happen if I accidentally put a 16 ga shell in my 12 ga autoloader? What would happen if DeltaTen accidentally loaded his 10mm Colt magazine with some 40 S&W (I have a mind to take that gun from him before he hurts hisself). What if someone shoots ++++++P 38 special in their S&W Airlight?

My point is just because a round fits in the chamber doesn't mean it belongs there. I NEVER shoot ammo if I don't know where it came from. I don't even like shooting other people's firearms if I know they're shooting handloads unless I know the person and trust their attention to detail.

Factory 45LC ammo and loading books will always underperformers until lawyers go away (DABTL's departure from the FILES was a good start) or old clunky antiques go away.

Byron

davedude

November 18, 2008, 08:39

http://www.realguns.com/loads/45colt.htm

Shazzam! Looks like me and the .45LC was destined to be together, I got almost all them powders, H110, unique, 2400,231 and 296.

Very cool. :beer: I have a ruger blackhawk convertable 45lc/45acp coming finally after lusting for one all my life...can't wait....:smile:

Dave Dude

davedude

December 03, 2008, 09:35

Well heat dude I am wondering if youv'e had a chance to pork fat magnum level loads downrange with the ruger yet?

I'm still waiting for the convertable to show up at my ffl. I hate waiting.

I just bought another Ruger in 45cal.....a new, unfired, in the box with papers
Ruger Old Army for $300. When I saw that thing at that price I sprinted to the cash machine. :biggrin:

Dave Dude

L Haney

December 03, 2008, 11:17

Hi Joe,

For a first post, I think yours takes the cake.

:bow:

Lowell

AndyC

December 03, 2008, 20:26

A decent single-action in .45 LC is the only revolver I literally lust after now.

davedude

December 13, 2008, 21:38

Suddenly I have two fistfuls of .45 in Ruger flavor.

Blackhawk convertable, .45 long colt/.45acp and a .45 cal Old Army.

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6605/s6302478dl8.th.jpg (http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=s6302478dl8.jpg)

Sweetness.

Dave Dude

patrick kelly

December 14, 2008, 14:26

The .45 Colt is one of my favorites.....................................
http://www.pbase.com/image/87930602/large.jpg

I had a S&W 625 Mountain Gun that I regret getting rid of about ten years ago, need to get a replacement.

davedude

December 15, 2008, 15:16

excellent photo patrick.

Nice.

Dave Dude

wildwilly

December 17, 2008, 11:11

I carry a 45 LC titanium taurus. I thought it was legal for big game in Wyoming. Not sure now as the regs read need a 1000 ftlbs of energy at a 100 yards published. Does anyone have the statistics on the 230 and 250 grain factory 100 yards energy level?

Muggzy

December 17, 2008, 14:04

I f you hand load you MIGHT hit 1000 ft lb. at the muzzle

Factory ammo is not going to come near that. Factory ammo has to be concerned with what type of pistol out there is going to receive their ammo

Temp

December 19, 2008, 09:30

Since the topic of .45's has once again reared it's knarly head, Here's my current example. Big fat cast bullets and a lump of WW296 will really get your attention when touching this pocket rocket off.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h225/FalMike/MVC-027S-1.jpg

December 20, 2008, 17:02

Persistant rumor has it that Santa might be bringing me a Cimmeron SAA in .45 Colt. These revolvers are made by Uberti in Italy.
Does anyone have any of these guns? Where do they stack up as far as strength is concerned? Stronger than a Colt, but weaker than a Ruger? I'm not figuring on hot rodding it when I load for it, just curious. They seem like a pretty well made gun.

patrick kelly

December 20, 2008, 20:21

Originally posted by DJ
Persistant rumor has it that Santa might be bringing me a Cimmeron SAA in .45 Colt. These revolvers are made by Uberti in Italy.
Does anyone have any of these guns? Where do they stack up as far as strength is concerned? Stronger than a Colt, but weaker than a Ruger? I'm not figuring on hot rodding it when I load for it, just curious. They seem like a pretty well made gun.

Ubertis are fairly well made guns, I've had several over the years. They don't approach the quality of a Colt or a USFA, but they aren't near that price point either. It should be a good looking gun that well serve well. They're in the same strength catagory as the Colt so don't push the handloads. Stick with standard pressure loads and the pistol should give years of service.

BUFF

December 20, 2008, 23:04

Yep, the Uberti's are pretty much the same dimensions as the Colt SAA and would fall into the same strength category. Standard pressure.45 Colt ammo and equivalent handloads.

December 21, 2008, 09:20

Thanks guys. I'll load accordingly for it. I'm itchin to get my hot little hands on it!:biggrin:

USMC 0341

December 21, 2008, 18:50

My first Cimarron Arms was a Thunderer in 45 Colt. I also have one in standard Peacemaker pattern with the 7 1/2 inch barrel. Held next to my USFA it really is not easy to spot the subtle difference in quality.

December 21, 2008, 19:13

I'm anxious to get my mitts on this Cimmaron and compare it to my Colt. They both have 7 1/2 inch barrels. I've fired the Colt, but she's just too purty to shoot very much. That's what the Cimmaron is for. I can shoot 'er and not worry about hurting her.
I'll post pics sometime Christmas day or Friday.

Heat

December 21, 2008, 19:48

Originally posted by DJ
I'm anxious to get my mitts on this Cimmaron and compare it to my Colt. They both have 7 1/2 inch barrels. I've fired the Colt, but she's just too purty to shoot very much. That's what the Cimmaron is for. I can shoot 'er and not worry about hurting her.
I'll post pics sometime Christmas day or Friday.
I have heard that the metallurgy on the Cimmaron is not quite up to par

patrick kelly

December 22, 2008, 18:57

Originally posted by Heat

I have heard that the metallurgy on the Cimmaron is not quite up to par

This is correct, but I wouldn't use the term, "not quite up to par" as that denotes an inferior product and the Ubertis certainly aren't that, within their price point. The steel tends to be softer, particulary when it comes to screws and other small parts, so special care needs to be taken during dissassembly or you'll bugger up the screws very quickly. The internal parts will wear out quicker than the american made USFA or Colt counterpart, but the Ubertis will still give years of good service and aren't hard to repair when worn.

The Uberti '73 in my photo is a beautifully made rifle that exhibits a fit and finish most american made firearms don't. It's also an excellent shooter and has been so for years. Uberti makes a very good product, you just have to have realistic expectations.