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johnnycobra
October 15, 2008, 13:50
I just dug this back out recently, thought I'd post it up to start some conversations. Maybe the full story on red bands, lend lease, and some of these accessories/markings will come out?

I have the bayonet, single shot adapter, original kerr "no-buckl" sling, and buttstock oiler/pullthrough.

It's an Eddystone" red band" import from Canada.
When I got it, had been glass bedded and sanded/steamed out some. The arrow in C is still present on the stock.

Looks like the floor plate was swapped with a parkerized one at one time, all else appears to be blued still. Original Barrel is there.

Had it since ~1992?

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/715/pict0097mz9.th.jpg (http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0097mz9.jpg)
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/4056/pict0124il4.th.jpg (http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0124il4.jpg)
http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/9752/pict0107lq2.th.jpg (http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0107lq2.jpg)
http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/4149/pict0105wk3.th.jpg (http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0105wk3.jpg)
http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/2844/pict0098el7.th.jpg (http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0098el7.jpg)
http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/6959/pict0109gf2.th.jpg (http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0109gf2.jpg)
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http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/3417/pict0117ee4.th.jpg (http://img241.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0117ee4.jpg)
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Goliad
October 16, 2008, 13:00
Nice!

Red band meant 30-06, so the Brits wouldn't try to feed it 303, right?

prosecond
October 16, 2008, 14:04
YES

1MOR
October 16, 2008, 20:23
Great score! Congratulations.

Retired Bum
October 16, 2008, 20:27
When the B.E.F. was pulled off the beach at Dunkirk in June 1940, they left all of their heavy weapons and a large part of their smallarms behind.

The British were desperate for military weapons and our president, FDR, authorized the release from War Reserves of 1,000,000 US Model 1917 "Enfield" rifles and hundreds of millions of .30 cartridges. The British painted a red band around the buttstock in order to identify these rifles as .30 weapons from the virtually identical .303 P-14 rifles.

These redband '17's were mostly issued to the Home Guard, a sort of last ditch militia made up of men too old for service, young boys, and wounded soldiers who had been invalided out of the army. To the best of my knowledge, none of these Home Guard types ever fired a shot in anger. But at least they had rifles and ammo if the Germans had managed to stange Operation Sea Lion. One wonders how well they would have faired against the German Army.

And so it goes.


The Retired One

owlcreekok
October 16, 2008, 20:34
Originally posted by Retired Bum
When the B.E.F. was pulled off the beach at Dunkirk in June 1940, they left all of their heavy weapons and a large part of their smallarms behind.

The British were desperate for military weapons and our president, FDR, authorized the release from War Reserves of 1,000,000 US Model 1917 "Enfield" rifles and hundreds of millions of .30 cartridges. The British painted a red band around the buttstock in order to identify these rifles as .30 weapons from the virtually identical .303 P-14 rifles.

These redband '17's were mostly issued to the Home Guard, a sort of last ditch militia made up of men too old for service, young boys, and wounded soldiers who had been invalided out of the army. To the best of my knowledge, none of these Home Guard types ever fired a shot in anger. But at least they had rifles and ammo if the Germans had managed to stange Operation Sea Lion. One wonders how well they would have faired against the German Army.

And so it goes.


The Retired One

As interesting a post as I have read in a while. Painfully short. It prompts me to more reading up on WW2.

:beer:

johnnycobra
October 16, 2008, 21:17
Great story!
I suppose that after the war was over, batches made their way to Canada for various purposes as well? Hence the Arrow in C on the right hand side of the stock, in front of the floor plate on the bottom of the stock, and I believe a partial stamp of the same on the receiver ring just under the serial #.

1MOR
October 16, 2008, 21:26
Wouldn't life be great, those rifles never fired a shot, if they came home along with all the ammo?

Against the Germans, 1,000,000 rifles, each firing one shot, into one German, invasion over?

Retired Bum
October 17, 2008, 00:07
Some of those redband 1917's did come home after the war. But from what I have read, the British scrapped or otherwise disposed of the majority of this rifles. They were obsolete and the US War Dept didn't want them back. The British didn't want these rifles in the hands of their subjects.

A fair number of various US made civilian weapons were donated to the British after the affair at Dunkirk. Rifles, shotguns, handguns, and ammo were shipped to the UK in an effort to give the British a fighting chance if the Germans invaded. The British sent "Purchasing Commissions" to the US and started buying up whatever handguns Colt and S&W had in their warehouses. Would you believe that the majority of what are now known as 1st generation Colt SAA's chambered for the new .357 Magnum were bought by the British. Some RAF flying officers were issued brand new S&W K-38 Masterpiece target revolvers as a sidearm. Beggars can't be choosers as the old saying goes.

After the war, the British Gov't started collecting all of the various donated weapons and scrapped or destroyed them. No attempt was made to return the donated weapons to their rightful owners in the US. But I guess that was to be expected. After all, the USA had written off untold billions of dollars in War Loans dating back to the Great War. What's a few firearms compared to that?

And so it goes.


The Retired One

M 1928
October 17, 2008, 22:49
The Brits can beg until the cows come home the next time and they WON'T get a damn one from me!

troubleticket
October 18, 2008, 13:04
The NRA and many sportsmans groups donated thousands of rifles, pistols, and shotguns to the effort.
Many of the items were returned to the US and the original owners.

The will be found with markings such as "not British made" and covered
with British proof marks.

I have seen and owned several .22lr bolt actions that were so marked.

A boat load (literaly) of M1 Garands were sent over(redirected from

shippment to Corregadore/Phillapines) and a few can be found with

original as issued configuration.(seen em'). These were also Brit proofed.

Yes, many were not returned, but after seeing so many of obvious

"lend-lease" and "donated" guns, they must have returned tens of thousands

of them to the USA.

M 1928
October 18, 2008, 21:01
I got one of the British Garands, not the ones with the Brit proofing on the muzzle, one with the proof under the Op Rod. Got it in 1970. Only thing it did not have was the 'Red' band of paint on the fore arm!

P.I. Staker
October 21, 2008, 01:19
Originally posted by johnnycobra
Great story!
I suppose that after the war was over, batches made their way to Canada for various purposes as well? Hence the Arrow in C on the right hand side of the stock, in front of the floor plate on the bottom of the stock, and I believe a partial stamp of the same on the receiver ring just under the serial #.

Actually a large number of these rifles were exported directly to Canada, delivered by truck to the border at Blaine, WA and delivered further into Canada. The New Westminster Regiment recieved many of these rifles. The Unit Museum of the New West Regiment has photo documentation of the delivery of these "P17" rifles across the border, and their subsequent use by the Regiment.

I have a like new M1917 that has unit markings to the Canadian Governor General's Foot Guards.

Whatever a Governor General is and why his feet needed guarding I'll never know:rofl: :rofl: :wink:

tonsper
November 10, 2008, 02:14
A Governor General is the Queen's representative in Canada. The regiment called the Governor General's Foot Guards (GGFG) is the ceremonial bodyguard for the Governor General and/or Queen when in residence. There is also another regiment called the Governor General's Horse Guards (GGHG). They are an equivalent of the US Old Guard, which no one asks why they are old and still serving.

kalliste
November 10, 2008, 06:07
I remember watching a video clip in a documentary about the end of WW2 where British sailors were dumping crates of ammunition and weapons overboard into a suitably deep area of the North Sea. It was the only practical way for them to destroy the enormous quantities of weapons and ammunition they trashed at the end of WW2. The British Government got terminally nervous about some kind of revolution happening after the Russian Revolution and, for most of the C20th, had on-going issues with Ireland and the possibility of a resurgence of Scots Nationalism.