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Artful
September 07, 2008, 23:33
Well, I just couldn't resist for $79.95 - J&G in prescott got me - I had to get one - ammo's not cheap but I think I can make some from .223


http://yarchive.net/gun/revolver/nagant_revolver.html

#I just read the blurb in the MidwayUSA catalog and the Blue Press about
#using Starline 32-20 brass to make cheap reloads for this pistol.
#Considering the cheap price of Nagant revolvers, I am intrigued.
#
#Does anyone have any experience with the Lee die set? Blue Press used a 30 Carbine die set to form the brass initially and a 32 S&W to size it
#afterwards. Does anyone know if I need any of that if I just get hte Lee
#die set from Midway?

While the above approach will make brass that is shootable, many will
find that it is not at all satisfactory. Because of the design of the
this particular revolver, the "throat" that the bullet enters as it
leaves the case (actually the remainder of the cylinder) is grossly
oversize for the bullet. One of the most critical aspects of making lead
(or any other) bullets shoot accurately is fitting the bullet to the
throat.

If mine is a typical example, despite the worst ever 100 pound trigger,
these are very accurate little revolvers. It seems a shame not to get
the gun's full accuracy potential.

Because of all the interest in this project, this my attempt to document
efforts to reform .223 brass to 7.62 Nagant Russian Revolver. Once I had
learned the idiosyncrasies of the beast, it was pretty straightforward, albeit somewhat time consuming.

Suggested tools and materials:

.223 brass and corresponding shell holder
.30 Carbine reloading dies - mine is an RCBS
reloading press ("O" type, heavy duty type not required; I have also done this
on my Lyman Spar-T)
disk sander (not necessary but it does help to speed things along)
case lube (suggest Motor Honey)
knock-out rod (details in text)
mallet (mine is rawhide)
blank shell holder or metal disc about shell holder diameter
case trimmer with .30 caliber pilot

1. Shorten .223 brass. After trying a number of ways, I found that the
easiest way, and very fast, was to use my disc sander. It takes about 3
seconds per case using a no. 60 grit. No, the disk does not fill up with
brass. Push the case into the sander disk, removing material to about half
way between the neck and the shoulder. This may seem a little short to you,
but the case lengthens considerably as it is swaged.

2. Using a case inside-outside deburrer, remove the burrs. This is done so
that the case mouth may be opened without crushing, using an expander button,
or preferably, a Lyman "M" die.

3. Remove primer decaping pin assembly from the .30 Carbine full length
sizing die. Important! Set the die so that it touches the ram firmly
when the ram is raised.

4. Lube the case liberally (I use Motor Honey) and run it into the .30
Carbine die about 1/3 of the way. Do not force it beyond where it feels
good and tight. Doing so is to assure that a stuck case will result.
Take it from one who learned (several times) the hard way. Back case out
of die.

5. Re-lube case and ram to about 2/3 the way home. Same warning as in 4,
above. Back case out of die.

6. Re-lube case. This time you can run it all the way home. It will back
out pretty easily. Notice that at this point, the swaging process has been
accomplished just past the web of the case -- that's good.

7. Re-lube. Using a blank shell holder, set the sizing die so that it
presses firmly, but not hard, against the shell holder when the ram is
raised fully. The spring of the press, when the case is rammed all the
way home, will assure that the case rim is not swaged. This can also be
done by laying a metal slug, like a slug from a knock-out hole in an
electrical box, on top of any regular shell holder. The blank shell
holder is just a little more convenient.

8. Ram the case all the way home. Use a knock-out rod to remove the
case. Two things are important here.

First is that the knock-out rod should be as large in diameter as
possible. This will depend on the particular sizing die used. My RCBS
die has a 1/4x28 thd decapping rod. It will accommodate a .210" rod
which I made from a very long bolt that originally had 1/4x20 threads
rolled onto its end; one of those rods used to hold cable reels together.
To assure that it will not bend when struck with a mallet, the rod should
be only as long as is necessary to drive out the case. Mine is 3 1/2"
long. The rod head is handy to act as a retainer so that it does not
fall out of the die, but is not necessary. Note that it is not difficult
to drive out the fully swaged case when done as prescribed here, and the
rod need not be hardened as long as it is not too long. Mine is as soft
as any steel gets.

Second, when driving out the case, do not try to emulate Paul Bunyan.
Tapping the rod (I use a rawhide mallet) 3-4 times will remove the case
without bulging out the head. One mighty whack risks messing up the head
spacing, and more important, makes it difficult to get into the .223
shell holder. Out of about 80 cases that I have made so far, only a
couple have given me resistance. They were fixed by chucking into my
drill press and using a quick swipe of a half round file. If there is a
slight rounding of the head, it will not adversely effect the outcome.
This is a good time to wipe the lube off of the cases. Also, decapping
can done any time one chooses. I use a universal decapping die for this
task.

9. Chuck case into your trimmer and set to reduce the case length to 1.51".
Notice that the brass has lengthened significantly as it steps through the
swaging process. If it has been shortened as directed in step 1, only a few
turns of the trimmer handle will be needed.

10. You might want to try chambering your cases now to make sure that
they will fit. My die reduces the very base of this tapered case to
.360-.362". This is as perfect a fit as one can get in my revolver. I
do not know if these guns vary much in chamber diameters.

11. Next use either the provided .30 Carbine RCBS expander die or,
preferably, the Lyman "M" die to prepare the case mouth to receive the
bullet. If you expand prior to chambering for the first time, depending
on how much you bell the mouth, you may be alarmed to discover that the
case will not chamber. This is because of the relatively steep taper of
the case which will not stand for much belling and still chamber. Don't
worry, the loaded cartridge will have this bell removed by the crimp.

It is possible that the case mouth will benefit from annealing to keep it
from splitting but I chose to skip this process until I see need for it.
I have annealed the original brass because of the radical crimp applied
to the factory rounds.

At this point, your brass is ready to load.

Anyone else try this or do you all pay the $30 per box for ammo?

I see where some shoot 32 long or 32 mag out of it but cases split depending upon the chamber size in the cylinder. J&G was out of the 32 ACP space cylinders.

Hot Diggity
September 08, 2008, 08:07
If you can find spent .32 S&W or .32 H&R magnum cases you can reload them with a light charge and a well lubricated .32 ball driven flush with the case mouth.

I've been able to reuse these cases several times. 3 gr. of Titegroup doesn't
ballon the cases much at all. Cheap plinking.

HD

jdmcomp
September 17, 2008, 14:54
Seems like a lot of work when the 32-20 works just fine. Lee dies are ok, (and cheap and available) but you need to make sure the bullet cannot set back in the case when firing the gun. I do not think the lee die has a long enough straight neck sizing on the case to absolutely prevent this (and I could be worrying about nothing). I run the case into a 32 die to make the neck tighter for a longer section. I guess one could dimple the case behind the bullet also. Case will be shorter then original so gas seal does not work but the gun will fire just fine. I use a couple of 32 bullet types with the DEWC being the best bet. Lots of info on the net for this process.

shortround
September 17, 2008, 18:32
Originally posted by jdmcomp
... (and I could be worrying about nothing)...

On a revolver you have to worry about the bullet working it's way out of the case, not deeper. Anyone who had reloaded for a magnum revolver and not crimped well will know what I mean. The bullet's inertia tends to keep it in place while the recoil of the gun tries move backwards along with the case.

jdmcomp
September 18, 2008, 06:15
you are correct about the recoil issue but my thought was simply to keep the bullets in a set position for accuracy and velocity consistency. The loads I use are low enough not to stress the gun if the bullet moves backwards but accuracy is bad enough with these pistols already. The neck seems to come out with lots of taper behind the case mouth which would not be a problem with the bullet seated normally but the nagant seats flush and does not allow crimping into the bullet.

sf46
September 18, 2008, 08:59
.32 short, .32 long, & .32 magnum will also work in the gun.

CRShooter32
September 18, 2008, 14:10
Originally posted by sf46
.32 short, .32 long, & .32 magnum will also work in the gun.

I have shot both .32 S&W long, and .32 H&R mags through mine, without any problems.

Prototype Services
September 21, 2008, 23:54
You guys using 32-20 brass, are you using Nagant reloading dies?

Artful
September 22, 2008, 01:10
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=206553

Lee's dies are designed for 32-20 brass

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=14740&highlight=Nagant+Revolver

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=21479&highlight=Nagant+Revolver

and

RCBS are for factory brass but cost much more..
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=842280&t=11082005
see link
http://www.realguns.com/archives/130.htm

I'm ordering the Lee either from Midway
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=642108&t=11082005


or Graff and sons
http://www.grafs.com/product/190920

jdmcomp
September 23, 2008, 15:19
One further note on the Lee dies. They use the usual seater plug to seat the bullet which will not seat the wadcutter into the case flush. You will have to make your own seater plug from a bolt/screw in order to seat the wadcutter flush. Not a big problem but you will have to deal with this.

mutter
September 23, 2008, 16:30
My Lee Nagant pistol die set works fine and sets the bullet correctly. I tried the 32-20 cases but the rims were to thick so I just bought some original boxer primed ammo and I reload them after shooting.

Do not use 32 caliber ammo or projectiles in this handgun. I have tried the 32 caliber rounds previously mentioned and they leaded the hell out of the throat as they were being shaved down to a 30 caliber.

Also, the oversized projectile will cause excessive pressure. Not a safe practice with a 100 year old gun.

1gewehr
September 24, 2008, 07:37
Originally posted by mutter
Do not use 32 caliber ammo or projectiles in this handgun. I have tried the 32 caliber rounds previously mentioned and they leaded the hell out of the throat as they were being shaved down to a 30 caliber.

Also, the oversized projectile will cause excessive pressure. Not a safe practice with a 100 year old gun.

The .32 bullet works just fine. No one has experienced any overpressure with normal powder loads. These cartridges are all pretty low pressure.

The issue is that the Nagant pistol does NOT have a forcing cone like most revolvers. There is a recess in the end of the barrel where the case mouth on the Nagant cartridge fits to make a gas seal. Using lead bullets will cause lead to build up in this recess, and eventually cause problems (like overpressure).

The answer is to use jacketed bullets in any cartridge other than the regular Nagant cartridge.

I have been firing .32 H&R reloads for two years now. The cases do stretch. But running them through a 7.62 Nagant sizing die is sufficient to reduce them to the proper size without making them split. I have cases that have been reloaded four times so far without any issues. I don't bother measuring for stretch as they would have to stretch a LOT to cause a problem. I DO check carefully for cracks in the case wall and mouth.

Artful
February 21, 2009, 22:50
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6046/1895nagantrevolverbarrezr7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4181/1895nagantrevolverthrearh7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Nagant turned out good

Wanted this due to this video that was posted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvF4yurWSc0

dirtyrice
February 22, 2009, 17:49
Im thinking I might get one to have fun with a suppresor.

Artful
April 18, 2009, 01:13
Took it out, with my friend unaware it was a 32 caliber revolver he asked what kind of suppressed 22 I was shooting now :D

That was with a 9mm suppressor on it using factory ammo.
I didn't chrono it but would have to say it's sub sonic.

Guess next step is accumulate some more brass

ARMALITE FAN
April 20, 2009, 14:33
Originally posted by mutter
My Lee Nagant pistol die set works fine and sets the bullet correctly. I tried the 32-20 cases but the rims were to thick so I just bought some original boxer primed ammo and I reload them after shooting.

Do not use 32 caliber ammo or projectiles in this handgun. I have tried the 32 caliber rounds previously mentioned and they leaded the hell out of the throat as they were being shaved down to a 30 caliber.

Also, the oversized projectile will cause excessive pressure. Not a safe practice with a 100 year old gun.



The Nagant revolver is 32 caliber. (.310-3.12) Just like their 7.62x54 and 7.62x39