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captk
June 25, 2008, 09:21
I recently purchased 2 M14's on Armscorp receivers. Both are built from GI parts, 1 is all TRW parts and the other is all Winchester parts. Over on the M!4 site these guys talk about 4K - 5K through the barrel and then it's time for a new one. I thought the round count was very low. I have owned a lot of C&R with who knows how many rounds through them that were fine and shot well. Maybe these guys were talking match guns? The bores on my rifles are excellent but the thought of wearing them out after 4K is disturbing. Since these are chrome lined bores shouldn't they last even longer?
Ken

hagar
June 25, 2008, 09:29
If you shoot competitions, barrels are considered toast when hitting the X at 600 yards becomes impossible. They may still shoot great at 300 yards for another 4000 rounds, but will become iffy after that. Chrome lined barrels might give you 15-20K, but that is pushiong it.

Steggo
June 25, 2008, 10:24
Originally posted by captk
Over on the M!4 site these guys talk about 4K - 5K through the barrel and then it's time for a new one. Ken

Most of them are talking out of their A$$eS and just parrotting what they've read on the internet. A barrel is worn out when it won't shoot well enough for its intended use.

Hagar is dead on about the range issue. Useful barrel life is a function of the range and the shooter's standards. A dedicated competitive rifle shooter may notice his 600 yard scores going down after ~5K rounds. A guy using his AR or M14 to blast 100 yard targets off the bench at the range wouldn't notice any problem at all at that point.

The barrel on my favorite C&R Mauser has dark grooves, visibly worn lands and pits at the muzzle. It will still clean the 200 yd SR2 target used for CMP "vintage rifle" matches.

The AR I use for 3-gun matches also has a barrel worn from thousands of rounds.. I don't ever see myself ever replacing it as long it can hold its own against the mall ninjas. You don't need a hand cut, cryogenically treated barrel for "minute of bad guy" shots at 10 yards.

Ssarge
June 25, 2008, 14:53
Take care of your muzzle crown, that's the biggest accuracy killer!
As others have said, the low round count is from match shooters or people talkin outa the other orifice.
Round count can vary wildly. How do you shoot? Rapid fire will open up the throat faster than slow, deliberate aimed fire.
Cleaning has a lot to do with it. Do you use a GI cleaning rod and screw up the symmetry of the muzzle?
If it's a chrome lined, chrome chipping around the chamber and throat will accelerate wear and really work on your accuracy.
I have seen select fire M14s that had tens of thousands of rounds through them and they still shot just fine.
Then I have seen rifles with just a few rounds that were trashed by bad ammo, over pressure ammo or dweebs that don't know how to clean it properly.
(and you don't have to disassemble it every couple of days, that speeds wear)

Rifleman 7.62 NATO
June 25, 2008, 16:05
I would say the barrel life at a minimum would be 40,000 rounds.

cart
June 26, 2008, 09:53
Originally posted by Ssarge
Take care of your muzzle crown, that's the biggest accuracy killer!
As others have said, the low round count is from match shooters or people talkin outa the other orifice.
Round count can vary wildly. How do you shoot? Rapid fire will open up the throat faster than slow, deliberate aimed fire.
Cleaning has a lot to do with it. Do you use a GI cleaning rod and screw up the symmetry of the muzzle?
If it's a chrome lined, chrome chipping around the chamber and throat will accelerate wear and really work on your accuracy.
I have seen select fire M14s that had tens of thousands of rounds through them and they still shot just fine.
Then I have seen rifles with just a few rounds that were trashed by bad ammo, over pressure ammo or dweebs that don't know how to clean it properly.
(and you don't have to disassemble it every couple of days, that speeds wear)

Roger that! When I was a kid with my new M1A I cleaned that thing practically every day! Even when I hadn't shot it sometimes just to take it apart and learn the rifle. I put that GI cleaning rod down that poor barrel so many times it was like ramming a cannon barrel.

Still upset I don't have that rifle anymore though. Even though the barrel was very highly hopelessly sh*t.

JohnnyV1966
June 26, 2008, 17:29
When talking about a 7.62 or 308 rifle if you are a DCM shooter its about 5000 rounds for a Chrome Moly Barrel and 7000 for a Stainless Steel barrel assuming that it was good in the first place.

Chrome lined barrels are not usually used in competitve shooting but may last longer if the chrome in the barrel doesnt chip or flake.

Always use a great deal of care when cleaning using a straight one piece rod. Avoid sectioned rods and those of aluminum.

Today I hear they get about 10k rounds through an AR barrel.

mj2evans
July 11, 2008, 09:49
A little off topic but a guy brought a sectioned Krieger 223 AR barrel to a HP shoot I was at a while back. The barrel was cut length wise so you could see the chamber and throat. The barrel had approx 9k through it and really could have gone a while longer. I was a little surprised a nonchrome barrel could go that long but I guess lack of ammo dumps and could cleaning habits help.

ftierson
July 11, 2008, 10:05
A guy brought a Win. M70 in .223 WSSM into the shop with about 300 rounds through it...

The bore was toast...

And it wasn't from over-cleaning, either...

Forrest

ftierson
July 11, 2008, 23:56
Originally posted by ftierson
A guy brought a Win. M70 in .223 WSSM into the shop with about 300 rounds through it...

The bore was toast...

And it wasn't from over-cleaning, either...

Hmmm...

I expected a comment or two about this post...

The bore was toast, and not from over-cleaning, but because the hammers from the hammer forging machine didn't quite do their job correctly...

But there was already some noticeable throat erosion with 300 rounds down the tube...

:)

Forrest

jbrooks
July 12, 2008, 15:05
IMO, it all depends on the purpose of the rifle. My M1A has over 10,000 rounds out the tube, and the throat erosion is 2.5. Still accurate at 100 - 200 yards, all i need.

I'd say you're good to 15,000 - 20,000 rounds and that adds up to about $12,000 in ammo at current prices. :shades:

JWB

DYNOMIKE
July 12, 2008, 15:18
Originally posted by ftierson
A guy brought a Win. M70 in .223 WSSM into the shop with about 300 rounds through it...
The bore was toast...
And it wasn't from over-cleaning, either...
Forrest

Originally posted by ftierson

Hmmm...
I expected a comment or two about this post...
The bore was toast, and not from over-cleaning, but because the hammers from the hammer forging machine didn't quite do their job correctly...

But there was already some noticeable throat erosion with 300 rounds down the tube...
:)
Forrest

You had my interest but I figured I would wait for some additional info...
My FIRST thought were poor reloading skillz.. :p

Must admit that a Poorly manufactured barrel did NOT come to mind...

jbrooks
July 12, 2008, 17:41
Originally posted by DYNOMIKE


You had my interest but I figured I would wait for some additional info...
My FIRST thought were poor reloading skillz.. :p

Must admit that a Poorly manufactured barrel did NOT come to mind...

Barrel wear for the WSSM doesn't really surprise me. It's just a glorified .220 Swift from yesteryear, whaich was (in)famous for it's destruction of barrels after a few thousand rounds.

As far as hammer forging goes, the hammers are on the exterior of the barrel, a mandrel is on the inside, forming the lands and grooves. The hammers probably did the job OK.

As a side note, I consider all these new "wunder-rounds" such as the RUMs, WSSMs, WSMs, etc..etc.. to be just cool marketing ploys. Bottom line is, with any powder of today, the faster you want to push that pill, the more barrel wear/damage. Whether from an ancient .220 Swift or an ueber-modern WSSM...::bow:

JWB

PA Garand Boy
July 14, 2008, 09:15
Originally posted by ftierson
A guy brought a Win. M70 in .223 WSSM into the shop with about 300 rounds through it...

The bore was toast...

And it wasn't from over-cleaning, either...

Forrest

Wby Mag = ghey
WSM = gheyer
WSSM = gheyest