1911 problems

[FAL GRUNT]

I have a springfield 1911 that is having issues. When I bought the gun the first 200-300 rounds went flawlessly. I was shooting a pistol at a competition and had a few problems.

The main problem is when reloading. Last round will fire, slide will lock open, i'll drop the mag, seat a new mag, and drop the slide. The problem occurs when the slide does not completely close and the round is not chambered. The slide remains open about 1/2in and jams the round, pushing the bullet back into the case a little (not much).

Hitting the back of the slide with my palm, pulling the slide back a little, and sometimes (though rarely) hitting the mag (as in tap rack shoot) will remedy the problem.

Occurs with a variety of mags, 7 and 8 round.

Suggestions?

I have polished the feed ramp, but I have not polished the magazine lips, though prior to this they all worked OK.

thanks!

-myers

[AndyC]

What position is the round in exactly when it jams? 45 degrees pointing upwards, in line with the chamber, nose down, something else.... ?

Also, what kind of bullet are you using?

Another thing - does the extractor clock at all? In other words, does the firing-pin stop at the rear have enough slack allow the extractor to rotate a little (looking from rear to front)?

[FAL GRUNT]

45 degrees pointing upwards and 230 gr RN FMJ.

I'll check on the extractor.

If I can get it to jam, maybe tomorrow i'll just take a pic :)

-myers

[ggiilliiee]

got enough recoil spring in it ???/if it feeds on fresh mag from full slide retraction..(beyond slide stop position ) ..id add a pound or 2 to the recoil ..(wilson combat has em all .... just for kicks check yer barrel link too

[StoneyCreekMrMauser]

Definite recoil spring check is in order. Something else, remove the extractor and clean the recesses where it and the rest of the guts go. My Colt was acting a little funny until I did this and replaced the recoil spring with a Wilson XP unit. You would not believe how dirty that little hole gets with just a few hundred rounds thru it (mine was used and probably had a thousand or so thru it before being cleaned, so she was nasty).

Also, see if you can get some pix of the gun when jammed up on here and we'll see what is going on.

[richbug]

And only 4 days till a match....

Bring your 9x18, it will be OK.

Or you can shoot my Colt.

[FAL GRUNT]

:) I might bring my CZ (9x18). Not sure if I can go yet!

It is not the recoil spring, checked that by replacing with new Wilson.

-myers

[AndyC]

Next thing to do is to polish the underneath of the barrel-hood, extending to inside the chamber (on the upper side). Don't remove metal, you're just giving it a high-gloss polish.

Basically the bullet hits the feedramp and noses upward, then hits the inside of the barrel-hood. If it's slick enough inside, the bullet slides along that and allows the rear of the cartridge to cam upwards, the rim sliding upwards in place behind the extractor (hence my question about the extractor "clocking" - if it clocks too much, the rim can't snap in place behind it).

[k7kit]

We had a similar problem with our Kimber TLE's (early ones with the 1911 style extractor) a few years back when we went to them. A couple of the guys would experience a similar failure to go into battery condition.

After allot of figuring out what in the heck was going on we found out the guys were not cleaning the pistols as directed. They were not removing the extractors and firing pins and cleaning in that area. Being we were, and still are shooting some of the dirtiest ammo I have ever seen on the range it was getting crud around the extractor, not allowing full movement and it would not pop over a case rim all of the time.

So, you might give an eyeball to that area of the pistol.

[ggiilliiee]

you fellas fouling your pistols in 200 rounds .....really should try vithavouri oy powder .............320 is your friend .....hodgtown or uniqeer is garbage ....blakpowder is cleaner than the above 2 .....:eek:

[FAL GRUNT]

Here are the pictures.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e353/falgrunt/IMG_2454.jpg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e353/falgrunt/IMG_2452.jpg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e353/falgrunt/IMG_2451.jpg

-myers

[AndyC]

Nice pics - #1 is especially nice and if we could get a view from the other side to see what's happening with the rim & extractor, if would be great.

Suggestions:

1. Check if the extractor is clocking ie. twisting about its axis

1. Polish the bolt-face like a mirror (don't remove any metal, though) - you don't want any drag there as the case-head slides upward.

2. Polish the upper inside of the chamber so the bullet will slide into place without stuttering.

Question: When you said you polished the feedramp, what exactly did you polish - the frame or barrel feedramp - and how much? Is there still a gap of about 1/32" between the frame and the barrel feedramp or does the feedramp now overhang the frame when in its most rearward position?

Observation - I believe that the bullet itself is pushing the barrel forward on feeding, changing the feed-angle - and I think it's caused by a change of angle on the feedramp. Either that or the magazine isn't feeding the round up the ramp at the right angle.

[FAL GRUNT]

I'll try and take another shot looking at the extractor. I cannot get the extractor to move at all, so I believe that it is not twisting.

I'll polish both the chamber and the bolt face.

When I polished the feed ramp I polished both the ramp and the throat (I believe those are the proper terms) with fine sand paper (400/600/800 and crocus cloth for a final polish of parts.

This is the same final polishing procedure I use sometimes at work as it does not remove much metal. Technically any sanding removes material, this removes less than a thousands (.001in) of metal when I have done it on a lathe.

Thanks for the continued help.

-myers

[ggiilliiee]

open the mag lips ...should release the base of the round and be free ...BEFORE the point you have jam in picture ..use some good flat long nose pliars ...open just in front of where the base stops and to the rear of mr. mag .....its gotta pop free before the jam ....so it can go i level like the chamber

[AndyC]

Almost forgot - Extractor Tuning Tips by Bill Wilson (http://www.m1911.org/technic2.htm)

[BattlePack]

How about ammo? Are you shooting something different?

I had issues with CCI Blazer Brass in a variety of pistols where the bullets weren't properly crimped/tensioned and setback would occur, with a resulting FTF.

[FAL GRUNT]

My first thought was that it could be caused by the ammo...

It had the same malfunctions with winchester.

I've polished everything as stated.

I will report back when I get a chance to put it through its "paces"

thanks!

-myers

[AndyC]

Hopefully a little polishing has done the trick, but if it hasn't, at least some of the basics are out of the way :beer:

[BULLDOG]

Also, mine was doing the same thing. It's a enhanced Colt 1911 Gov't model. The OAL on my reloads were some of the problem. Just an FYI. Hope it works out.

SEMPER FI

[mountainman]

I second that, check the OAL of your ammo. .45 should be 1.275 OAL and case length .895. If that is not it, I'd say feedlips on the mags. Check for something to show tampering or maybe dropping/beating. I'm thinking a combination of the two is what is making this a random problem.

I'd also say if he has no problem with ejection extraction, no need to worry about the extractor. Extractors don't snap over fresh bullets. The bullet is meant to enter the extractor as it is being driven into the chamber in a rather parallel orientation. Parallel to the chamber that is.

Also, Do your mags all lock at the same height. Might have a mag catch problem. This could throw off the rounds entry angle.

[Deltaten]

LIke Andy sez...polish evrything brite and shiney! :D
Add the bottom "hook" of the extractor to that list. On comp gunz, we went so far as to radius the bottom a bit and then polish to a high shine.
ANY pont of contact is likely to add drag if it's not slicker than a greased mirror.

..and no, Andy.. I never *did* get to do any of that to my ODI ;) :grind, crunch: One o'these days tho.....:D

Best,
Paul

[AndyC]

Originally posted by mountainman
I'd also say if he has no problem with ejection extraction, no need to worry about the extractor. Extractors don't snap over fresh bullets. The bullet is meant to enter the extractor as it is being driven into the chamber in a rather parallel orientation. Parallel to the chamber that is.
Well, where a mis-shaped extractor can be a problem on feeding is when the rim is prevented from snapping up into position behind the extractor-claw on feeding.

This is worth a read - 1911 Reliability Secrets (http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/reliability_secrets.htm)

[mountainman]

Have a funny feeling that in this case the bullet is not in the appropriate orientation to enter the extractor in the first place.

[AndyC]

Yup, that's what we're trying to determine - we're not sure if the bullet itself is jamming on entry into the chamber or if the case-rim is jamming under the extractor.

[mountainman]

So I have a question, how would a bad extractor cause the bullet to have a bad orientation as it is being driven out of the magazine? That extractor slot would have to be clearly visible as junk. We're talking about more than just the need for a polish.

[AndyC]

Like I originally said: "Observation - I believe that the bullet itself is pushing the barrel forward on feeding, changing the feed-angle - and I think it's caused by a change of angle on the feedramp. Either that or the magazine isn't feeding the round up the ramp at the right angle."

I'm covering the extractor-issue as well because that's usually where the next problem occurs. While the cartridge is contained by the feedlips, the rim doesn't touch the extractor - you're absolutely correct there.

However, I'm trying not to make the error of assuming that the one good pic we have (which shows the case-head still contained by the feed-lips) is how it happens every time. Personally, I'm hoping that slicking-up the upper inside of the barrel hood is enough to get it going.

[mountainman]

Magazine

[AndyC]

Yup, usually my first suspect, too - but he says he's already tried various mags, apparently.

[mountainman]

Reloads?

[GOVTMOD]

SA sometimes have slightly tight chambers and most production pistols have a sharp edge on the thoating that can cause this type of jam. Have someone run a finish reamer into your chamber then slightly break the corner at the top of the throat.

[mountainman]

pull teh slide off and check to see that you can insert a round through the bottom and clear the extractor. Just wondering.