View Full Version : fal accuracy with nato ammo
May 28, 2008, 21:30
I'm considering getting an 18 inch DSA Fal to shoot about 7K rounds of Nato type .308 mil surplus I have on hand. What kind of accuracy could I expect with a new DSA-18 inch barrel with a speed trigger and a 4 power scope at 100 yards?....what has been your experiance?
You can expect about 2 MOA. That's what my two give me with reloads and surplus ammo. You may get better, you may get worse, you never know.
May 29, 2008, 10:48
I agree. I've owned seven FAL's (three Belgians, two DSA's, one DSA Stg58, and an OSW) and the best has been about a two minute gun. The others have ranged upwards from that to about three minutes plus. I have heard persistant rumors of one minute guns but have not shot one, let alone owned one. But the reports are credible (from such as Chuck Taylor) so, like the Sasquatch, I like to believe they are actually out there.
The reasons for this level of accuracy are many and disputed. Informed folks frequently claim that the critical issue is locking shoulder fit, while Kokalis has written that the varying pressure exerted by the rounds in the magazine against the tilting bolt prevent consistent lock-up. A local smith who has built national match winning bench rest guns, and a few FALs, claims he can produce a one minute FAL by tightening all the tolerances, but then the gun won't run reliably. Of course sights, the shooter's ability, and the FAL's billy goat trigger can all affect the outcome.
I try to remember that the FAL was designed to be, and IMHO is in fact the finest fighting rifle ever made. Match grade accuracy was never in the design parameters. But I keep trying.
June 04, 2008, 18:38
I have more than one FAL that shoots better than 2 MOA. I have posted multiple target photos that are 1" (+/- 1/4") off the bench, 100 yards, iron sights. Not best group of day - three or four three-shot groups in a row - multiple times.
New barrel, new ammo, free-float handguards are your friends. A good trigger is your friend. Range time is your friend. Mil-surp (except possibly Hirt) is not your accuracy friend - since most of it is 2 to 4 MOA ammo. Old barrels aren't bad things, as they are probably just as good or better than the mil-surp ammo, but they aren't good things, either.
IIRC, the excellent shooters are at a 'minimum' headspace, too.
But none of this matters too much to me, as I can't, for the life of me, figure out how to pack the concrete benches at the club into the field (camping, hunting, etc.), where I find myself needing to shoot prone, sitting, kneeling, or standing. Bottom line is that I work my ass off to shoot 1-1.5 MOA with irons from prone/hasty sling, and then it is all 2, 3, and 4 MOA (sitting, kneeling, standing) anyway.
I love the FAL, and it does everything I can think of asking an mbr to do. I have a raging case of FALFever, and I love building the rifles. Now the only thing that I'd consider having in its place is the POF P-308 - which costs $2,700/rifle, and therefore creates a different set of 'fulfillment' issues - not to mention the fact that there are no old kits lying around...
Brian in MN
June 04, 2008, 19:27
IHMO you may well get better groups without the glass. I do.
June 04, 2008, 19:39
If all you are gonna' run is milsurp, then 2 MOA off of a bench is about right. If you pull off of the bench and forget about it then you will probably shoot Minute of reality and then the true Zen of the FAL will become apparent!
June 04, 2008, 20:55
7K rounds is far too many for good accuracy. Ship me 5K and your groups will shrink to .5 MOA almost instantly. :biggrin: Seriously, 1.25 to 2 MOA is great off the bench. We all knows how it goes from there. I'm happy at 2 to 3 inch groups off a very solid rest with a FAL. If you really NEED more than that, you need a different platform. This battle axe is just that, not a scalpel.
June 04, 2008, 21:13
I have two ARS built FAL's both on Imbel receivers. One is with a Steyr kit and the other is an Imbel kit. The Steyr shoots 1.75"-2" groups and the Imbel shoots 1.2"-1.4" at 100 yards using S.A. surplus ammo. I've consistently shot these groups time and time again with S.A. I have not tried other surplus ammo out of these two rifles.
June 04, 2008, 23:33
I tried my DSA STG 58 off the bench with iron sights and Radway Green brit surplus.
It shot 1.5 MOA at 300 yards, which I think is outstanding. No modifications to the gun other than a hooded rear aperture.
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