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View Full Version : Buiding an M-1, A few questions


owlcreekok
May 05, 2008, 07:24
Not burning the world up in a hurry, but maybe have the barrel in a month or two.

I parked the last of the parts this weekend. Looking good. :shades:

What do folks normally use for finish on the gas cylinder, the nut thingy and the plug deal ? I been thinking a bake on spray like Brownell's carries. It would be nice to match, but not too worried there. As long as this thing comes out JCG legal, I'm good.

The bolt came out a lot darker than the trigger group stuff and the swivels, buttplate, etc. I didn't park the FCG gutz, nor the windage-elev knob stuff. They look okay as is.

Feel free to answer the gas parts finish questions and also hijack at will. Any and all comments on tweaking this M1 into shape will be appreciated.

Hopefully late summer-early fall I will have a rifle and a full kit ready to go be embarrased on a firing line.

kycrawler
May 05, 2008, 07:41
brownells baking laquer or krylon bbq paint and bake it on either work ok depending on the color your going for

Rotor
May 05, 2008, 08:44
It has been explained to me more than once that the original finish on the plug and gas cyl is "black oxide".

As far as getting all the parked parts to match.... I gave up on it. Too many variables out there. In fact I have come to love the variations.

This rear sight base realy POPs

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M14/LRB%20Done/th_BigRedWalnutHeel1.jpg (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M14/LRB%20Done/BigRedWalnutHeel1.jpg)

Castlenut and sight are pleasingly different.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M14/Parts/th_M14KitFlashHider.jpg (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/Rotor_/M14/Parts/M14KitFlashHider.jpg)


JR

owlcreekok
May 05, 2008, 09:21
Those contrasts are nice ! :bow:

Now, time to show ignorance. WTF is "black oxide".

Do they have it at WalMart ? :rofl:

Rotor
May 05, 2008, 09:42
Black Oxide is tool finish that works on all kinds of metal including stainless. It's a form of blueing. Smooth and black.

IIRC the original finish for post Colt 1928 Thompsons was Du Lite Black Oxide.

It does not etch like phosphating.

http://du-lite.com/

http://www.birchwoodcasey.com/metal/index.html

Some of the gunsmiths that play here do it I just can't remember who.

JR

gunplumber
May 05, 2008, 10:46
Originally posted by Rotor
It does not etch like phosphating.

Bu tthe pre-treatment pickling does etch.

owlcreekok
May 05, 2008, 11:41
From looking at those two links, this does not appear to be something I can easily accomplish "out back on the picnic table".

I would like to have as near a "correct" finish as is practical. Somehow I am not real keen on the idea of a can of spray paint, baked or not.

Gunplumber; do you do this black oxide treatment ? If yes, maybe I need to call you since this will be more of a "professional" discussion rather than a forum thing. I have a couple of pieces you have done with Metacol. (not really too knowledgeable about that) That finish seems to be pretty robust and may serve what i want on my M1 gas parts.

Ssarge
May 05, 2008, 14:50
I have used the Brownell's bake on lacquer on Garand gas cylinders, but the best "match" to original color was by using high temp flat black paint and baking it on. It's really close to NIW gas cylinders. ditto on gas cylinder lock and plug.

owlcreekok
May 05, 2008, 17:25
Originally posted by Ssarge
I have used the Brownell's bake on lacquer on Garand gas cylinders, but the best "match" to original color was by using high temp flat black paint and baking it on. It's really close to NIW gas cylinders. ditto on gas cylinder lock and plug.

That rings like something I will do first.

What paint ? Just go tot he store and look for "hi temp" on some flat black ? I will refrain from the $1 a can graffiti ammo. Lol.

Ssarge
May 05, 2008, 18:42
I have used the automotive hi temp as well as the hi temp you would use on an outside grille. Several thin coats and then I bake it on the grill on low. (it stinks too bad to do in the oven in the house. AMIK)
The hi temp paint looks a lot like the black oxide finish on original gas cylinders. It isn't as slick and shiney as the Brownell's finish is.
As for the parts matching? I have owned a 5.4 million SA Garand that had 0 rounds through it since it left Springfield Armory. The gas cylinder isn't supposed to match the dark grey park finish on the rest of the rifle.
Look at any photo of mint or better Garands and you'll see the gas cylinder/gs lock and plug are a bit "off" from even the darker late production Garands.

2barearms
May 05, 2008, 19:33
Owl,

Call Slow and ask him about it. IIRC Black Oxide and bluing are the same.
The pretreatment for stainless may be issue, can't rememberer.

shlomo
May 05, 2008, 20:04
Owl,

Rutland's 1200-degree grill paint is what I have been using. It matches the dark manganese park very well, has about the same "flatness", and is reasonably durable from shooting/handling wear. Ace Hardware carries it here in Georgia. Dunno about where you are.

Just spray on a couple of coats and let dry to the touch in about ten minutes. Bake in the toaster oven (doesn't stink like some of the other heat-set paints and epoxies) for 30 minutes, and done. If it wears off with use, easy to repeat.

It has been on the gas cylinder and related parts for over a year of fairly heavy use shooting matches, and is just now showing a little wear on the edge if the gas cylinder lock only. There may well be something better out there, but this has worked well enough for me that I don't feel a need to experiment further.

Added info: I tried one of the Brownell's baking lacquers, and it did not match nearly as well. Even though it was the "flat" black, it still was a bit shiny compared to the grill paint. And it stank rather nicely during the bake.

shlomo
May 05, 2008, 20:48
Are you planning to do the finish reaming yourself on the 9-A?

owlcreekok
May 06, 2008, 04:10
Originally posted by shlomo
Are you planning to do the finish reaming yourself on the 9-A?

Slow and I are planning to do it. No pull thru, so we got to feel our way into it. I wish a pull thru wasn't so costly, but Slow thinks we can do it up right, just a bit more tedious. He's BTDT.

shlomo
May 06, 2008, 06:04
Originally posted by owlcreekok


Slow and I are planning to do it. No pull thru, so we got to feel our way into it. I wish a pull thru wasn't so costly, but Slow thinks we can do it up right, just a bit more tedious. He's BTDT.

I've done a half-dozen or so in the past year, using a conventional reamer and some fairly simple shop-made fixtures for the 9A. All have come out dead nuts on minimum HS except one, which was .001 over minimum.

If you like using the lathe, and enjoy making fixtures and tooling with it, you can make a setup to be able to control reaming depth to as close as a half-thousandth, given caution. If you're interested, I'll figure out how to get some pics and text posted or sent via email.

owlcreekok
May 06, 2008, 06:14
Very interested. Very patient too. I'll be out of pocket Thurs thru Sunday and busier than a one armed paper hanger till then.

shlomo
May 06, 2008, 07:10
Okay, then. I'll go out to the shop and do a dummy setup on a take-off barrel, and make some digital pics during the next few days. Hopefully I'll have my ducks in a row by the time you're ready.

shlomo
May 11, 2008, 21:25
Test

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4373/025dc8.jpg

Owl,

This is a dummy setup on a Garand barrel, to show the travel indicator rig, and the reamer driver.

shlomo
May 11, 2008, 21:52
A shot of the reamer, driver socket, and MT2 bullnose.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4592/018gb0.jpg

shlomo
May 11, 2008, 22:05
In case you're wondering where all the swarf in the background came from, it's from a project for a li'l frien':
:shades:

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/2185/cimg3197vh4.jpg

30-06 and corresponding die shown for scale.

shlomo
May 12, 2008, 07:34
This is a closer detail of the travel indicator mount for the tailstock ram.

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/8002/003nd5.jpg]

owlcreekok
May 12, 2008, 08:13
Just in from a few days up around Ft Worth.

:bow:


Leave a fella with a lathe and no adult supervision and he'll get inta all manner of mischeif. :biggrin:

I don't got a mill, but Slow man has. Fabbing the fixture for the dial will be a bit of a trick. Although some patience and some hand tools would get us there. I can think of several uses for that little gizzy other than grungin on Garand tubes.

:beer:


Oh yeah, you make that bullnose ?

shlomo
May 12, 2008, 08:41
Owl,

Yep, I made the bullnose, using a ball-turning attachment I also made. :biggrin:

Incidentally, the steadyrest in the first pic is completely shop-made from scratch. Not bad for a beginner, eh wot?

Since I started messing around with truing up Garands, I've made a drawer full of special fixtures and jigs dedicated to that rifle. Below is a modest example: a four-jaw fixture for centering M1 muzzles for repair and recrowning.

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/3662/sbcrownfixturefi0.jpg

I've been thinking over the weekend--seein' as how I have no plans to barrel or chamber anything during the timeframe you have mentioned, and the fact that you're one of the more solid citizens around this board, I'd be happy to box up the fixtures and send 'em to ya for about 30 days. They'd all fit in a small box, and since you have the same machine as mine, they should just plug and play.

That of any interest?

owlcreekok
May 12, 2008, 09:08
PM Inbound.

Ssarge
May 12, 2008, 17:22
Did you do the gas cylinder/lock/screw yet Owl?
I just did four of my Dan's Type 57 M14 mag's with the high temp paint. I'm baking them on the barbie as I type. Looking good so far!

TerryN
May 13, 2008, 18:01
Rent a pull-through reamer from CH-4D: http://www.4-dproducts.com/display.php?group=Pull+Through+Headspace+Reamers&PHPSESSID=94f6702961df8c734e44921037a988b5