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View Full Version : Gouge on new SA58TAC "Normal"??


joe_unicycle
May 01, 2008, 14:51
Hi,

I just bought a brand new SA58TAC carbine from a DSA reseller. It has a standard synthetic buttstock and a build date of 10-10-2007. When I removed it from the case, one of the first things I noticed was a "gouge" on the underside of the buttstock along the molding seam.

This isn't a scuff or scratch, it's an actual divot where the synthetic material has been displaced.

Anyone else have this experience? Is this normal?



http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/8903/47713204kz3.jpg

vmtz
May 01, 2008, 15:00
It is a battle rifle. Now, if you are bugged about it? Call DSA and see if you can return it so they can replace the stock. Replacement should be done by a competent gun-smith.

Fr. Vince

joe_unicycle
May 01, 2008, 15:49
It is a battle rifle. Now, if you are bugged about it? Call DSA and see if you can return it so they can replace the stock. Replacement should be done by a competent gun-smith.

Fr. Vince,

It's a new battle rifle that carried a new price tag. I already Called DSA and they said "all standard synthetic stocks have that marking."

I heard that DSA had extremely high quality standards and I have not heard anyone else speak of this abnormality before. Frankly, based on the high quality of the rest of the rifle, I can't believe this is "normal."

Thus, I would like to know if anyone who purchased an SA58 with a standard buttstock has the same marking that "all DSA standard synthetic stocks have."

vmtz
May 01, 2008, 16:11
Ok, I was just messing with you. The question is whether or not it is a true STG stock. If so, it is a military stock and they generally will have blemishes. What you are looking at is a casting mark. Personally, I would not worry about it. I know DSA's are not cheap, but it does not affect function.

Fr. Vince

Mandaree36
May 01, 2008, 20:58
MIR = 4

tangoben
May 02, 2008, 02:09
I just bot a used SA58 tactical carbine from a reputable, local dealer and it has the same blotch/gouge/?? At first I was concerned, but after I fondled the thing and fell in love, I forgot about the imperfection. I still shoots better than I can.
fwiw

sturmgrenadiere
May 02, 2008, 07:38
Isnít this just the spot where the sprue from injection molding is removed? I noticed this same thing on a DSA pistol grip I recently bought. It had a significant little sharp sprue (or whatever it is called) right on the back of the grip where the web between the thumb and forefinger rests. A few seconds with a razor blade fixed it (in my case it was a protrusion, not a depression).

I mention this because the grips I got a few years ago were flawless in regards to molding and final finishing details.

I have to agree with the price issue. If these are to be noted as battle rifles, then they need to sell to us at gov't contract prices (though in DSAís case I have no idea what that is). The rebuke one can get regarding machining marks on receivers, imperfections in plastics, etc, hold no merit considering the price tag involved.

Not directed at Vince, just a general statement to the two or three people who actually ever read anything I quip about... :D

MAINER
May 02, 2008, 09:04
Just checked my DSA handguards. Don't have a buttstock from them. They had the good sense to put the sprue on the inside, but this is a two piece unit, unlike the buttstock. If it was mine. I'd fill the tear with epoxy, stained black. I've also used Super Glue Gel on some dinged mil stocks.

Agreed, for the price and new, it should be perfect, but like tangoben said, you'll feel much better after you shoot it! :)

vmtz
May 02, 2008, 09:21
Wait till he sees the misalignment on his handguards?


Fr. Vince

joe_unicycle
May 02, 2008, 11:44
Thanks for the replies.

Just did a search for casting / molding / mark on this site and on Google and found no discussion on this issue. I'm somewhat relieved to hear other people have this marking on their buttstock but cannot understand why DSA would sell this product "new" while the rest of the system looks so nice.

I have not bought any other new weapon system or any new product for that matter where a divot taken out of the material has been an acceptable "normal" occurance.

What's more perplexing is that the reseller, who sells these systems daily, had never heard of this issue either. ???

When you dump close to $2,000 on a product, I think most people expect a quality product especially when purchased sight unseen.

When I was was XO in my infantry unit many moons ago, the unit armorer and I saw everything in terms of the abuse a weapon system took and it was readily apparent who cared for their system and who didn't. Even in a high optempo unit with numerous airborne ops, a gouge in a weapon system would raise questions from the armorer. A gouge in a new system? Forget about it.

Will it put rounds downrange? Probably. But what if I was a collector and wanted a pristine piece of history to put on display? A divot like this would certainly affect the weapon's value down the road.

If there is a DSA rep around this board, I would at least like to hear the reasoning DSA uses to justify the abnormality in the buttstock.

Fr. Vince, the handguards are aligned.

AndyC
May 02, 2008, 13:23
Originally posted by joe_unicycle
If there is a DSA rep around this board, I would at least like to hear the reasoning DSA uses to justify the abnormality in the buttstock.

Yup, there's a DSA section here (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=34)

wolfsburgbob
May 02, 2008, 13:53
Originally posted by sturmgrenadiere

Isnít this just the spot where the sprue from injection molding is removed?



A mark that looks as if someone used a Dremel/butcher knife to remove a sprue is on the stock of both of my DSA Stg-58s.

They appear a tad different from your illustration in size and shape, but I assumed they were exactly as "sturmgrenadiere" suggested, a hap-hazzard sprue "stub" removal.

With my moderate experience in molding and extrusion I have seen many marks as such on various froducts from Pistol Grips to "Diaper Genies". While the mark we see on our rifles is somewhat unsightly and possibly a bit excessive on a rifle that becomes a "love interest", it is common that a third party vendor such as the one who supplies DSA may not understand the need for aesthetics in this application.

KIT
May 02, 2008, 16:40
It is normal and is typical of Stg buttstocks. I do not know if I have ever seen one without that mark. Member sturmgrenadiere called it correctly.

If you are not pleased with the stock I would suggest getting a replacement as there a numerous options and then selling the Stg stock here in the 'Marketplace' Forum.



-KIT-

Fleabus
May 02, 2008, 16:59
It is common/the norm on the bottom buttstock mark. I have them on 3 new ones. Covered with paint or permanant marker and forgot about. FYI...

Dolvio
May 02, 2008, 18:09
Yes, my DSA SA58 has been circumcized as well. No biggie to me. If it were some fancy walnut job...then I'd be cheesed.

CG&L
May 03, 2008, 16:31
joe_unicycle

Will it put rounds downrange? Probably. But what if I was a collector and wanted a pristine piece of history to put on display? A divot like this would certainly affect the weapon's value down the road.

Will it put rounds downrange. Absolutely. The FAL is a the best battle rifle of the 20th century. FALs shoot as good as they look.

But what if I was a collector? I would want many versions of the FAL from as many countries as I could get. Hallmark factory differences or blemishes is what makes collecting interesting.

Pristine piece of history ? History can be ugly. Mustard gas in WW1, the Holocaust in WW2, President Obama's first year in the White House. Besides, a pristine FAL will have the mark on the plastic stock.

To put on display? FALs are beautiful, display with pride.

The weapon's value down the road? If you're looking for investment opportunities, firearms are a hobby.

just jokin' about Obama. John McCain has warts but he is our best hope

:fal:

sturmgrenadiere
May 05, 2008, 10:14
I can certainly sympathize; if you follow any of my occasion posts about attention to detail and production quality as they relate to fit and finishes, tooling marks, etc., my opinions are prone to being on the extreme end of expectation. But massed produced is still mass produced...

...but professionally presented feedback to the manufacturer is the best recourse.

joe_unicycle
May 06, 2008, 10:11
sturmgrenadiere,

We are of one mind. I can think of various methods of reducing a sprue that do not involve a dremel tool. Someone was taking the "easy wrong" over the "hard right". But your mass produced point holds.

I like Captain J's perspective that Hallmark factory differences or blemishes are what makes collecting interesting. I may be able to sleep at night based on that point alone. But in terms of investment opportunities, I'll take a rifle over an value-equivalent mutual fund or piece of gold any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Every request to a court of law is a request that the state use force, if necessary, to settle the dispute in favor of some movant. This is tantamount to a social adhesion contract where the equities play themselves out on an grossly unbalanced playing field. Try re-balancing that field with a mutual fund. Firearms are much more than a hobby, at least for me.

wolfsburgbob, a love interest it is, as with all my weapons. I will care for this one as I do all the rest.

Thanks to everyone who posted responses for an amazing array of candid perspectives and solutions to my issue. This is obviously a great place to seek advice from knowledgeable FAL enthusiasts. Thanks a lot.

vmtz
May 06, 2008, 14:52
Of course, it don't do you much good if it is a safe queen and you don't know it is reliable. And then there are those brass kisses......

Fr. Vince

joe_unicycle
May 06, 2008, 15:51
Yup, there's a DSA section here

AndyC,

Finally got a chance to post my question about DSA's reasoning behind shipping the abnormal buttstocks on their new SA58s in the DSA section of this board and received a pretty rude response from the moderator on that board.

The guy basically said "we already told you on the phone (after I already purchased it) that that mark indicates it was manufactured in Belgium and comes on all our standard buttstocks"

Then I said, "that sounded kinda rude considering I purchased the rifle sight unseen and had a few simple questions about it. Besides, that isn't my question. My question is about the logic behind shipping the abnormal buttstocks on new weapons, not about the origin of the buttstock. I just assumed DSA had a perfectly plausible reason for shipping them this way but I have no idea what that reason is. Are you sure Dave Selvaggio would approve of you treating customers this way for asking questions about his product?"

Then the guy removed the thread from the board. :rolleyes:

Business must be really good for DSA to blow their customers off just for asking a few questions. My understanding was that DSA stood behind their product 100%. Is that not the case?

Why did the moderator remove the post? I think this is a reasonable question coming from a customer who purchased their product sight unseen. Not entirely sure why the question would warrant a nasty response like that.

Or was it because I mentioned Dave Selvaggio in my post and he was embarrassed that he treated a DSA customer like that in a public forum?

That was weird.

Texasbubba
May 06, 2008, 16:44
I just checked three imported buttstocks, Belgian FAL, FNC, and unknown mfg on a Stg 58 kit gun, and didn't find a single sprue mark on any of them.

DYNOMIKE
May 06, 2008, 16:53
Just my opinion but I think your a Bit (WAY) OVER the Top about your Little SPRUE Scar.. :rolleyes:

It's a Frickin BATTLE Rifle not a 50k HOLLAND & HOLLAND Safari rifle that took a couple Years to build... No it aint no Cheap AZZ Century build but damn.. Have you even shot the thing yet or have you just spent your dayz locked in a Room lamenting??

From the DSA reps reply it sounds to me like you ALREADY asked DSA about the Sprue Scar and you didn't like what you heard then??

The stock is Not ABNORMAL, DSA chose to use a Genuine BELGIAN Made stock and apparently the Scar of which you are so twisted up about is Quite NORMAL.

Damn I hope that bigger more important things don't pop up in your Life cause I see you loosin a LOT of Sleep... :wink:

BTW the DSA Forum is PAID for by DSA, they have the ability & privilage to Shitcan whatever they want that's posted there..

joe_unicycle
May 06, 2008, 17:27
BTW the DSA Forum is PAID for by DSA, they have the ability & privilage to Shitcan whatever they want that's posted there..


What up gangzsta?

Yea but do you think Dave Selvaggio would want his company perceived as a "once you buy it you're on your own, don't ask us uncomfortable questions" type of company? It's just a question. No need for nasty replies and ill will.

That's just not money well spent.

The stock is Not ABNORMAL, DSA chose to use a Genuine BELGIAN Made stock

How do you know that playa? Texasbubba says that his Belgians don't have a single sprue on them.

DYNOMIKE
May 06, 2008, 18:15
Originally posted by joe_unicycle


What up gangzsta?

WTF is the GANGZTA Shit?? I aint no Fuggin Gangsta Fool.....

Yea but do you think Dave Selvaggio would want his company perceived as a "once you buy it you're on your own, don't ask us uncomfortable questions" type of company? It's just a question. No need for nasty replies and ill will.

That's just not money well spent.

Ahh I see your ALSO a NAME Thrower... That ALWAYS turned me OFF personally.. Never liked people that Tossed Names around trying to Bully themselves into a BETTER position... :rolleyes:


How do you know that playa? Texasbubba says that his Belgians don't have a single sprue on them.

Yes Texasbubba certainly Did say his stocks are Free of that Sprue Scar...
However OTHERS have said theirs DO... :tongue:
Sooo Mebe you should do a SURVEY cause right now it looks like you might have a 3 or 4-1 Count, the MAJORITY having the Scar..
OH & BTW I aint NO PLAYA either, in Fact I don't even Know WHAT Language that is??


You asked for opinions, I gave mine but you don't like it anymore than you Liked the reply you got from DSA...

joe_unicycle
May 06, 2008, 18:53
My bad. I thought you was a gangzsta. It's all the Zs you put in words where they don't belong.

I'm not "name throwing". I shook Dave's hand at the SHOT show a few years back when he was PERSONALLY standing at the DSA booth palm pressing and ANSWERING QUESTIONS. If Mr. Selvaggio can take the time to answer questions about his product, why wouldn't he want his employees in the customer service / public relations branch of the company he owns to answer relatively basic questions about his product? Especially from paying customers that chose his platform over hundreds of competitors'?

Say, you wouldn't happen to have Dave's email address would you? I'd just assume ask him directly since his customer service rep won't answer my question.

I'll value your opinion when all the Zs disappear and if it's on topic.

If you have a theory about why DSA would choose to ship malformed buttstocks on new weapons, I'd like to hear it. :confused:

DYNOMIKE
May 06, 2008, 19:11
No matter if you value it or not it is after all JUST an Opinion (You know what they say about Opinions right?)

I said AZZ instead of ASS... OOPSIE I'm terribly Sorry didn't think that anyone would be offended by that??

Ah, NO I don't have Dave's E-mail ADDY, but thanks for asking.. Anyway I'm pretty sure "DAVE'S NOT HERE MAN" :tongue:

Again the Stock is not MALFORMED it simply has a Little scar from the Mold..
Malformed would be Twisted, or somehow improperly made.. Like if it looked like an AK stock...
I still fail to see the big deal after all as I said before it's a BATTLE RIFLE.. The Gun was not built with Hand Hewn solid Black Walnut and finished as a Showpiece was it?

You may not know this BUT lots of DSA Rifles have been built over the Years with Military SURPLUS Parts.. :wink:
Although my guess is that DSA uses some of their own (manufactured parts) I don't think they Make EVERYTHING??
Sooo it is a NEWLY assembled Weapon, but Not necessarily BRAND NEW in a literal sense..

vmtz
May 06, 2008, 19:17
So have you bothered to shoot the darn thing yet?

Remember, it is more than a rifle to you.....

Fr. Vince

ThePitbullofLove
May 06, 2008, 19:35
My STG's as issued stock has a "sprue" mark on it. It's rather small, and I hadn't noticed it until this thread.

Can I call and bitch to Steyr about it? :biggrin:

Seriously though, Joe, this rifle is built with milsurp parts. As such, they often aren't finished to a 100% pretty and shiny commercial standard. They're made to be clogged through the mud, desert, woods, etc. and fired at the "enemy", even if the enemy today is a steel plate or black circle. They are not now, nor were they ever intended to be "pretty". I'll wager the majority of FAL stocks have "sprue marks" to varying degrees, even the commercially produced ones.

Rugged? Yes.
Functional? Most assuredly.
Sturdy? You bet.
Pretty? Nope.

Perhaps if you can't wrap your head around that, you'd be better suited with a bullpup in Gucci-flage....:whiskey:

owlcreekok
May 06, 2008, 20:18
Would you like it fixed ?

No, I am not fuggin around and I am not a vendor or an entrepreneur.

But I can fuggin fix it. So can you.

Got a razor knife (box blade ?)

Got access to a blast cabinet ?

DSA ain't gonna fix it, would be my guess. I hope they do, but I ain't takin odds on it.

G'luck, matey.

Keep us posted.

phillip
May 06, 2008, 21:16
"DAVE'S NOT HERE MAN"


:bow: HAHAHA Why didnt I see that coming?

JAVIER
May 06, 2008, 22:26
hey joe_unicycle: if you are not too happy with that imperfection that is also on my stg58 from austria.... you can give it to me and I will give that rifle some extra love..... and I will pay for the shipping so you don't have to worry...
I will send you pictures of him , and I will keep you inform of how that kid is doing at the range and at my house. and I will allow you to visit him too.. on request.... javier:wink: :wink:

Mandaree36
May 06, 2008, 22:58
MIR - 5

Thats the Man Index Rating...a 5 or below indicates uncomfortable binding of the panties worn by the rated individual.

How about this schmo...tell them you want a refund, get your money back and quit whining.

DYNOMIKE
May 07, 2008, 18:34
Huh, NO posts since we shared the SURPLUS Parts info?? :?

Ya think maybe he DIDN'T NOW that?? :uhoh:

skeeterbay
May 08, 2008, 13:50
If you are unhappy with the stock you might be able to pick up a SAW stock for it. You can find them for sale at several vendors sites or you can put a want to buy add in the market place here. I am sure someone has one they would let you have cheap. You might even find someone that will give you one for free.:biggrin:


Skeeter!

MBR29
May 08, 2008, 14:13
I would take a Steyr marked up stock over all the US made thin plastic stocks. Steyrs are thick and beefy stocks.

DYNOMIKE
May 08, 2008, 15:25
Originally posted by skeeterbay
If you are unhappy with the stock you might be able to pick up a SAW stock for it. You can find them for sale at several vendors sites or you can put a want to buy add in the market place here. I am sure someone has one they would let you have cheap. You might even find someone that will give you one for free.:biggrin:


Skeeter!

I thought HUGH had them ALL??:tongue:

skeeterbay
May 08, 2008, 15:34
I just couldn't help myself!:wink:


Skeeter!

DYNOMIKE
May 08, 2008, 17:27
Wow it sure got Quiet...

Shhhhhh, I can't hear anything.... :devil:

Rotor
May 09, 2008, 00:07
Originally posted by joe_unicycle
Especially from paying customers that chose his platform over hundreds of competitors'?


There..... he went and said it.

Ref can we have ruling?
------------------------------------
Specious use of the word "Platform" in an attempt to sound knowledgeable. Collect two "School me" points and return to ARf com.
-------------------------------------

JR

ce
May 09, 2008, 11:38
WTS- New in box platform, unfired DSA STG58 SA, included are also platform shoes, new in box Disco Stu Arms Stayin' Alive 77 BG model, Size 9

$2000 delivered with letter of apology from Dave Salvegetarian

PM for details

L Haney
May 09, 2008, 18:39
Readers Digest version of this thread. Read original post. Skip down to ce at #40. Or would that be Cliff Notes? :rofl: But you know, this guy could have a point. We may be getting too slack with the guys that make our accessories. My new Tommy Hilfiger jeans, on the logo, that red stiching. That's supposed to be Sunset Red #17. It has a more burgandy tint, almost like Sundowner Red #11. They haven't been to the cleaners yet, so don't start that trash! Who do I see about this?

joe_unicycle
May 11, 2008, 19:43
OK I get it. The final answer is that the abnormality is normal.


Thanks a lot to those who took the time to double-check their own SA58s, that answered my first question. I appreciate it.

ce
May 11, 2008, 22:40
I don't want to spoil the party so I'll go.
I don't want my disappointment to show.
There's nothing for me here,
So I will disappear.
If she turns up while I'm gone, please let me know.


You just got here late, Joe.

Time was, you could get a brand new buttstock, pistol grip, set of handguards, top cover, buttpad and screw, all brand new, for $30 from DSA.

Or a complete lower, maybe brand new, for $95

So to remedy your predicament, you would have had to order several of each, sight unseen, and hope you got something that was without a flaw.

Take it out and shoot it, and stop obsessing over inconsequential minutia, or I'll make you disassembled the blasted thing, and send it to me for a repair.

joe_unicycle
May 12, 2008, 13:30
Raspeguy,

Sincere thanks for posting those pics. Outstanding feedback.

Unless I'm missing something, the hand guards on my SA58TAC are uniform and conform to the gas block and each other very nicely. I would post a pic but there's not much to show. Yet another reason for disbelief on the sprue.

You mentioned that the stocks DSA sells differ in a number of minute ways from any you've seen on original Steyr STG kits. Any theories on why that might be?