PDA

View Full Version : 7.62x51 bolt gun?


Outlaw Patriot
April 09, 2008, 11:42
I'm thinking of getting a bolt gun, but since I heard you're not supposed to shoot milsurp in anything chambered for a commercial cartridge, I'd like to get a good bolt gun chambered for 7.62x51.

I know the military has used modified rem 700's, will a "Tactical" model from remington possibly be a 7.62? I'm guessing no.

I'd like detachable mags, moa or better accuracy, price range might be be flexible.

Anyone have any ideas?

StoneyCreekMrMauser
April 09, 2008, 12:02
Just about anything chambered in .308 Winchester should be able to digest the 7.62x51 NATO. The NATO loadings are actually a little less potent than the civilian loadings. I think the NATO pressure limit is around 50000psi/cup and the civilian is around 62000psi/cup (can't remember exactly which unit they used, but you'll be okay).

About the only worry you'll have is corrosive vs. non-corrosive loads. If in doubt, clean with Ed's Red or Hoppe's #9 and fire away!

Heat
April 09, 2008, 12:29
Originally posted by Outlaw Patriot
I'm thinking of getting a bolt gun, but since I heard you're not supposed to shoot milsurp in anything chambered for a commercial cartridge, I'd like to get a good bolt gun chambered for 7.62x51.

I know the military has used modified rem 700's, will a "Tactical" model from remington possibly be a 7.62? I'm guessing no.

I'd like detachable mags, moa or better accuracy, price range might be be flexible.

Anyone have any ideas?
Sure...Heres a few ideas:These are ALL .308
FN-HERSTAL Tactical--http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF006&gid=FNG005
http://i29.tinypic.com/25h1k47.jpg
Another FN-HERSTAL ...Patrol Bolt Rifle--http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF008&gid=FNG004
http://i29.tinypic.com/2m44ux4.jpg
Kimber Tactical--http://www.kimberamerica.com/rifles/tactical/8400_tactical/
http://i26.tinypic.com/2qwhoyf.jpg
CZ Varmint Kevlar--http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=49
http://i28.tinypic.com/2vt5owz.jpg

These are ALL Mauser type actions..guess that says what I feel about push feed Remingtons!

Perched Eagle
April 09, 2008, 16:30
Hey Heat, could you maybe suggest one of the rifles from that group you showed him...off the top of your head, do you know if they are they all about equally accurate -- and are any of them any around $1,000 or less?

Thanks,
P.E.

Heat
April 09, 2008, 16:58
Originally posted by Perched Eagle
Hey Heat, could you maybe suggest one of the rifles from that group you showed him...off the top of your head, do you know if they are they all about equally accurate -- and are any of them any around $1,000 or less?

Thanks,
P.E.

Well, from what I've read..the Top FN MAY be the most accurate...buts its by far the most expensive $2,000+-..and we're not talking a huge difference in accuracy either..I understand it is REQUIRED to shoot 1/2 MOA by the FBI and it apparently does..its their new sniper rifle platform..I believe the cheapest is the CZ for right around $800+-..and I know that the CZ's are extremely accurate, well built and the best value right now
The other FN, PBR XP is at least MOA accuracy and runs around $1100
The Kimber is $1500-$1800+- and in my opinion the best all round..big tactical bolt, smoothest action Ive yet to see on a commercial Mauser with a McMillian stock, wonderful ergonomics, fantastic barrel--but that pretty much describes all of them....they are ALL great rifles..all accurate, great stocks----
Thing about the FN Platform is that they re essentially Winchester as FN owns Winchester and builds these rifles in the U.S. on Winchester Machinery at their plant in the south (I think its South Carolina)
Kimbers are made in Yonkers New York and are every inch top shelf
CZ is Czech built and I imagine with the dollar value the price of those will climb soon...as a matter of fact they did April 1st..The safety on the CZ is different than the rest, you push it FORWARD to lock it, pull back to fire..opposite of all other designs and hard for some to get used to...but I did and I find it highly reliable--I guess it all boils down to what you can afford!

W.E.G.
April 09, 2008, 17:16
Originally posted by Outlaw Patriot
I heard you're not supposed to shoot milsurp in anything chambered for a commercial cartridge

You are thinking of shooting 5.56 in .223.
That's a well-documented no-no.
The American Rifleman magazine even posted a concise commentary about this.

The dimension issues associated with the aforementioned cartridges do not apply to the
relationship of 7.62 and .308.

Reputable military surplus and commercially-manufactured 7.62 and .308 may be freely used in
rifles marked for either cartridge.

The 7.62/.308 comparison issue has been beaten absolutely to death.
See http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22889

RacerRTR
April 09, 2008, 19:30
I've had good luck with a Savage model 11 in .308, with a decent scope on it I think i'm into it for about 700.00 . I also like the adjustable trigger.

Fn/form
April 09, 2008, 20:00
Give us more info, please... What's the intended use for the rifle? Do you already own 7.62 semi's? Is this a backup, play, alternate or specific-use rifle?

Milsurp isn't reknown for supreme accuracy, and if high round counts are bad for your precision rifle, the ability to shoot milsurp isn't that great a boon to a precision rifle... unless you want simple commonality with your other 7.62s

If not a precision application only, I consider iron sights a must. Robust sights greatly preferred (a la bolt battle rifles). I'm a BIG fan of the Scout rifle concept...

-josh

easttex
April 09, 2008, 20:10
My dad has a 700 Varminter in .308 that he wouldn't take for. It is probably the most accurate of all the rifle we own and cost less than a FAL build.

Would be a good companion to a .308 semi.

Fn/form
April 09, 2008, 20:17
Originally posted by RacerRTR
I've had good luck with a Savage model 11 in .308, with a decent scope on it I think i'm into it for about 700.00 . I also like the adjustable trigger.

If you shoot it often, like I did, you'll find the Savage more of a hunting rifle than a serious-use rifle. The extractor design is pathetic, in size and material. I've worn them out in less than 800rds.

Round/feed control is non-existent, no irons, and it's kind of a noisy action, too.

That said, my 11FSS + Sharp Shooter Supply trigger + Burris Fullfield II scope was hard to beat as an all-around TX hunting gun. Great value as a deer gun, but not my first choice in a bolt gun.

I'd greatly prefer a Mauser type action and hardy irons. The Mitchell's Mauser "Tanker" looks like it still covers most the bases for me... I still want one. The CZs are nice, but not many iron sights to choose from.

-josh

Outlaw Patriot
April 09, 2008, 20:39
Originally posted by StoneyCreekMrMauser
Just about anything chambered in .308 Winchester should be able to digest the 7.62x51 NATO. The NATO loadings are actually a little less potent than the civilian loadings. I think the NATO pressure limit is around 50000psi/cup and the civilian is around 62000psi/cup (can't remember exactly which unit they used, but you'll be okay).

About the only worry you'll have is corrosive vs. non-corrosive loads. If in doubt, clean with Ed's Red or Hoppe's #9 and fire away!

Huh, well I guess thats why I didn't find anything searching. I should have thought about that. Alright, sorry.

But since the threads here now,

QUOTE]Originally posted by Fn/form
Give us more info, please... What's the intended use for the rifle? Do you already own 7.62 semi's? Is this a backup, play, alternate or specific-use rifle?

Milsurp isn't reknown for supreme accuracy, and if high round counts are bad for your precision rifle, the ability to shoot milsurp isn't that great a boon to a precision rifle... unless you want simple commonality with your other 7.62s

If not a precision application only, I consider iron sights a must. Robust sights greatly preferred (a la bolt battle rifles). I'm a BIG fan of the Scout rifle concept...

-josh [/QUOTE]

I already own a Fal, so I think 308 would be a good caliber for my first bolt gun.

I plan on using the gun for hunting deer and elk, but it makes sense to me to buy guns that you know you can depend on no matter what.

I don't really plan on shooting any milsurp with it, but I'd like the capability to.

You're right about the iron sights too, those are a must.

I guess a rail would be nice too, so I could have a quick detatch scope mount that would hold zero if I took it off.

Anything like that, with detachable mags, ta least 1moa or better, for less that $1500?

I like that kimber, except the no iron sights.

rcnpthfndr
April 09, 2008, 21:20
i have quite a bit of .308 bolt guns and shoot M80 call and M118lr out of them jsut like Black hills, or federal. i do ahve a 40X barreled action in 7.62 nato made by remington

Heat
April 09, 2008, 22:03
Originally posted by Fn/form


If you shoot it often, like I did, you'll find the Savage more of a hunting rifle than a serious-use rifle. The extractor design is pathetic, in size and material. I've worn them out in less than 800rds.

Round/feed control is non-existent, no irons, and it's kind of a noisy action, too.

That said, my 11FSS + Sharp Shooter Supply trigger + Burris Fullfield II scope was hard to beat as an all-around TX hunting gun. Great value as a deer gun, but not my first choice in a bolt gun.

I'd greatly prefer a Mauser type action and hardy irons. The Mitchell's Mauser "Tanker" looks like it still covers most the bases for me... I still want one. The CZs are nice, but not many iron sights to choose from.

-josh
I had a Savage 10 LE 20" in a bell and Carlson stock..it was accurate but same problem..once had close to 1000 rds thru it it started to 'fail to extract', sometimes to the point of leaving the round in the chamber and I had to tip it backwards to josstle it loose..went to the gunsmith and it was the tiny extractor...made of Brass! about half the size of my small pinky fingernail..there was no upgrade so I ditched the rifle and went Mauser from that point on..never looked back..these are not true tactical rifles in the respect they are good for the cause..not meant for heavy use...invest the extra few hundred and do a Mauser, controlled round feed lying upside down, positve extraction..robust design, ask the Germans and any Army/Marine corp sniper from WW2 or Korea or even Nam when they were using Mauser type actions

Heat
April 10, 2008, 01:51
One more 'tactical' .308 offering I forgot:




http://i29.tinypic.com/24yo8km.png
http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=75

Fn/form
April 10, 2008, 17:53
Outlaw Patriot,

Are you hunting from a stand/hide mostly? What distances do you normally shoot at? Weight is a big concern for trekking/stalking of any sort. If you're in a hide, I hear one of the best off-the-shelf self-assemblies is the Rem 700 Varmint + AICS 1.5 stock. I dunno what it runs nowadays.

For $1500 you can probably obtain a decent sporter rifle, scope and possibly have a smith mount irons for you (you choose ghost ring, ramp, etc.). It won't be Cadillac, but it will sure as hell be more than serviceable.

The Scout concept may work... compact form, sporter weight, co-witness ghost rings + forward-mounted lower power scope.

The Steyr Scout did a decent job with the Scout concept, albeit pricey and not exactly the most robust as far as folding bipod legs went. Some consistent small finish details were widely reported to be sub-par for a rifle of that cost (such as an action bolt that drug on the bolt and caused unnecessary effort/grating to cycle). Most of them easily remedied. But it incorporated everything into one form, including bolt handle options, detachable mags and a biult-in spare magwell in the buttstock.


-josh

brunop
April 10, 2008, 20:35
Outlaw Patriot and/or anyone else -

$1,000 isn't going to get it done for the Mauser type rifles - they are too nice, and cost too much to build.

You can go to gunbroker right now, and find a Remington 700P in .308, 24" fluted bull barrel, HS Precision stock, and you'll be in the thing $899.

Now you have a rifle that will shoot 1 MOA all day long, and you aren't (probably) going to 'hold' better than 1 MOA in field conditions, anyway. If you can shoot a 6" group at 600 in the field, you are an amazing shooter, and you may need another rifle - but for what?

The useful max range on .308 is roughly 600 yards, at which point the bullet is close to going trans-sonic, and is already dropping 8.5 feet. This rifle will work at that range all day long - ask the thousands of police, army, and marine snipers that shoot the Remington for a living.

It comes with the rail included, but to shoot 600, you are probably going to want to buy a Badger rail with 20 minutes in it. Cool - you saved enough money to buy one.

Buy a scope, and you are good to go.

Peace.

Outlaw Patriot
April 10, 2008, 22:16
I actually have never hunted any big game before, but just going on hat I like to do in the woods already, I'd guess I wont be using a blind, so yes, low weight is a key concern.

The $1500 range I posted before didn't include optics, I can afford some more money for that.

Judging from the terrain where I live, shots might be 600 yards, probably a good deal less.

John Crusher
April 10, 2008, 22:59
Take a look at a SAKO or TIKKA. Various models in wood and synthetic. I looked through a bore scope and compared my 700 Rem. bore to a Tikka and it was like a piece of glass vs. sandpaper. I got the TIKKA and take my share of deer. I also shoot a little competition. Just my .002 cents.

Fn/form
April 11, 2008, 04:16
IIRC, M118LR holds supersonic at 1000yds, as do many loads out of a 24" bbl.

rcnpthfndr
April 11, 2008, 05:58
Originally posted by Fn/form
IIRC, M118LR holds supersonic at 1000yds, as do many loads out of a 24" bbl.

read this article it has some good info about barrel lengths by Tactical Operations a good bolt gun maker.

http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/

ETA: i just read your post about hunting with them. if you can find one, a savage 10FCM Scout in .308 would fit your bill. they pop up from time to time. those who own them rarely give them up. have you checked your local wally world? they have been clearing out the Remington 70 ADL's for 300.00 here locally. they dont have iron sights but for the price it would be a great entry level gun.

rcnpthfndr
April 11, 2008, 06:11
i borrowed this from a friend.

from: http://www.6mmbr.citymaker.com/barrelFAQ.html#24645


How Much More Velocity Will I Get with a Longer Barrel?
Going from 20" to 24" can increase velocities up to 160fps (40fps per added inch), depending on the rifling. After that, expect another 25-30fps extra velocity for each added inch up to about 28". Beyond that, you'll probably get a little extra speed, especially with 6BR Improved cases. We recently completed a barrel velocity test using a rail-gun. A Krieger 6mm barrel chambered for a standard 6BR was cut down from 33" to 28" in one-inch increments. The Average Velocity at 33" was 40 fps higher than at 28". The Average Velocities showed a pretty steady increase of 8 fps per inch past 28". For example the Average Velocity at 30" was 16 fps higher than at 28". Based on this study, you're not going to gain much by going from 28" to 30". And world-record-holder Richard Schatz is getting 3025fps with his 6 Dasher using a 26" Hart barrel. So arguably, 26" is long enough, at least for the Improved cases. For maximum speed, 30" is a useful limit, but remember that this adds weight to the gun and you'll be sacrificing barrel stiffness.

from: http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_barrel.htm

Other authorities have tried to take into account the different velocity ranges within which modern cartridges operate. The Remington Catalog 2003 includes a "Centerfire Rifle Velocity Vs. Barrel Length" table that shows the following velocity changes for barrels shorter or longer than the test barrel length:

MV 2000-2500 fps, the approximate change in MV per 1" change in barrel length is 10 fps.
MV 2500-3000 fps, the approximate change in MV per 1" change in barrel length is 20 fps.
MV 3000-3500 fps, the approximate change in MV per 1" change in barrel length is 30 fps.
MV 3500-4000 fps, the approximate change in MV per 1" change in barrel length is 40 fps.


The 45th Edition of the Lyman Reloading Handbook also has a table showing Center Fire Rifle Velocity Vs. Barrel Length. Their figures apply to barrels between 20 and 26 inches in length and agree with the Remington figures. The Lyman table shows the following approximate velocity changes:

For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 1000-2000 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 5 fps.
For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 2001-2500 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 10 fps.
For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 2501-3000 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 20 fps.
For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 3001-3500 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 30 fps.
For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 3501-4000 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 40 fps.


It think this was the article I was thinking of:

http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/


Different caliber but a intersting read:
http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/bullets_ballastics/long_barrel_velocity.htm

To summarize my conclusions I found that with this big cartridge, using IMR 5010 powder, the 250 grain bullet peaked out in velocity at a length of 42". Beyond this length the bullet actually lost a little velocity. Going from 42" to 30" the velocity change averaged about 18 fps per inch of barrel length. From 30" to 26" the velocity change was greater at about 23 fps per inch.

The 300 grain Sierra continued to gain velocity all the way out to the full 46" length where it peaked at 3159 fps. The average change per inch with this bullet was 12 fps per inch from 46" to 30", and from 30" to 24" it was almost the same at 13 fps per inch. With big case capacities, heavy bullets and slow powders, long barrels produce top velocities.

Fn/form
April 11, 2008, 10:37
Originally posted by rcnpthfndr


read this article it has some good info about barrel lengths by Tactical Operations a good bolt gun maker.

http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/

ETA: i just read your post about hunting with them. if you can find one, a savage 10FCM Scout in .308 would fit your bill. they pop up from time to time. those who own them rarely give them up. have you checked your local wally world? they have been clearing out the Remington 70 ADL's for 300.00 here locally. they dont have iron sights but for the price it would be a great entry level gun.

Indeed, most of the local guys are going with 20" bbls for suppressor/maneuverability.

Savage is making the .308 Scout w/irons, again!? Sweet! They had discontinued it... That would make for a nice compromise of price/performance for hunting use. The Savage stocks suck, but it's OK for hunting within a few hundred yards. We've already spoken about the extractor. Easy enough to have a replacement at home.

I wonder if it's possible to cut the bolt for a new extractor?


-josh


-josh

owlcreekok
April 25, 2008, 16:17
Glad I read this. Now I know that all the past and presently ongoing milsurp Mauser actions built into what I thought were primo .308 and .30-06 turnbolts were / are junk. (All under $800)

:bow:

I must rush out and spend $2k plus on a turnbolt immediately. If not sooner.

Varangian
April 26, 2008, 09:12
I don't really know much about the new FN rifles, but I have a 1st Gen SPR that shoots 1/4 MOA with regular old Federal GMM all day long.

Boring, actually.

My brother's father-in-law is big on reloading and custom-tailoring loads for his rifkles. He went with me the first time I shot the rifle, saying we'd "see how it shoots with that commercial crap, then I'll cook you up a perfect load"...

Ten rounds later, he just said, "Looks good like it is"...

ftierson
April 26, 2008, 09:45
You don't have to go expensive to get what it appears that you're looking for...

Try a Weatherby Vanguard Synthetic mounting a Nikon Buckmasters 4.5-14x40mmSF and you'll be happy. And you'll still have half your money left compared to some of the previous suggestions.

You won't get a detachable mag, but they're quite a mixed 'blessing' anyway...


:)

Forrest

RT
April 26, 2008, 09:56
Spanish FR8. not alot of $ and a great shooter. I love Mine~Richard

owlcreekok
April 26, 2008, 21:02
I'll quit being such an ass for a minute.

While Slow is building up for me what I call a "Once in a lifetime" .308 bolt gun, I am almost as pumped about my M48 action build. It won't have the sex appeal of one of those Weatherbys or a uber tactical rig, but after working on it some, I hope it will be a tack driver. I think that there are many bolt actions that will do some amazing work with a little TLC.

I have had a real fling with detachable mag rifles. Seems I am gravitating back to my roots though. Walking through the Museum of Fine Arts-Houston today I saw a mid 1700's painting with a front stuffer shotty in the work. I got all teary eyed.

Wife thinks I am losing it.

:|

panzer
April 26, 2008, 21:17
I am with Owl on this one.... Indeed, don't let a Bolt gun fool you with its looks, trust me. They can suprise you. Just pick one thats comfortable, can do what you want or need it to and work from there. Or go absolute base and tweak and enhance as you go, thats half the fun. 1/4 MOA is awsome, but unless your shooting mice at 200 yds, 1 MOA will be fine. you probably won't know the difference in real use. Its about the shooter more than the rifle. Dig down deep get the basics mastered, the real basics, away from the bench, and have fun and 1 MOA or 1/4 MOA won't matter. The best place to spend money on a rifle is behind it... Every shot is a training opportunity. EVERY shot. But still take the time to make holes in the dirt too, all work and no fun makes it a boring chore. ;)

STGThndr
April 30, 2008, 04:36
A Mauser surplus bolt gun rebarreled and nicely stocked should fill the bill. Actually a good Mauser in original 8mm, properly stocked should do ya nice. Depends what ya want I guess... I have a nice Fazakerly #4 .303 that shoots fine and with the original sights.

Blaster
May 02, 2008, 21:16
Originally posted by rtgunsmoke
Spanish FR8. not alot of $ and a great shooter. I love Mine~Richard

I agree with Richard. My little FR8 (my version of the Scout rifle) is hauled around my property on the ATV in the event some black bear insists on not yielding our right of way on one of our ATV trails. It's amazing how such a little shortie, very inexpensive rifle can be sooooo accurate and handy.:)

RT
May 03, 2008, 06:59
Blaster
can you post a pic of your FR8 ? thanks~Richard :whiskey:

Blaster
May 03, 2008, 07:14
Originally posted by rtgunsmoke
Blaster
can you post a pic of your FR8 ? thanks~Richard :whiskey:

rtg, although I refer to it as my "scout rifle", it does NOT have a scope mounted on it and I really have no intention of ever mounting one on it. If you STILL want to see a picture of it, I'll take one and post it but I don't believe you really have any interest in seeing just a "plain Jane" old FR8.:smile:

Blaster
May 04, 2008, 07:09
:sleep: :sleep:
Looks like my post ended another interesting thread. Ah well.:beer:

ftierson
May 05, 2008, 01:28
Originally posted by Blaster
:sleep: :sleep:
Looks like my post ended another interesting thread. Ah well.:beer:

Looks like...

:)

Forrest

Blaster
May 05, 2008, 08:37
Originally posted by ftierson


Looks like...

:)

Forrest

Yeah, LOOKS LIKE I'd be much better off by keeping my opinions and comments to myself.:) I'll learn.:sleep:

RT
May 05, 2008, 08:45
Blaster, sorry I went to Jenifers mom and dad's yesterday. and you didn't kill the thread. I thought you did some mond's to your FR8. and I thought I would see what Bob did to his FR8. like fixing it up nice, I want to see it and do mine the same, as you are a gun God, in my eyes. I love my plain jane FR8. as it is the 308 bolt gun of Florida. thanks for the replay, and sorry I was gone yesterday, some day's you need a break from the falfiles. and sunday was it for me, thanks ~Richard in FR8 state Florida. :beer: :beer: :bow: :bow: :whiskey: :biggrin:

Blaster
May 05, 2008, 17:36
Richard, I guess I was just getting a little "gun shy" about making posts anymore. Seems like I am the very last poster on quite a few threads. But, no big deal, I just do not want to be a bore to other FALers with my usual worthless dribble (bull shit). Glad you are back now. Here's a picture to show that I too like the little FR8's.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/bobjan/FR8s002-1.jpg

RT
May 06, 2008, 00:09
You have 3 :love: I only have 1, can you say envy :wink: . Dear will I give RT 1 of my FR8's when it is time to stand guard at the pearley gates. sond mind and body BB. ( thank that will work) :D ~R if more people shot the FR8 , they would want one!!! it can do the job, and it is a cheap to buy 308 bolt gun~R. BB enjoy your 3 FR8's~Richard :bow: :bow: :bow: :love:

ftierson
May 06, 2008, 00:22
Very nice rifles, Bob.

I, too, am a fan of the FR8, although I don't have any at the moment.

That may change...

Of course, I wouldn't even think of laying my babies on concrete, but that probably goes without saying...

(Just giving you the opportunity of being the last poster on this thread, Bob. Like usual...)

:)

Forrest

Blaster
May 07, 2008, 18:58
Originally posted by ftierson
Very nice rifles, Bob.

I, too, am a fan of the FR8, although I don't have any at the moment.

That may change...

Of course, I wouldn't even think of laying my babies on concrete, but that probably goes without saying...

(Just giving you the opportunity of being the last poster on this thread, Bob. Like usual...)
:)
Forrest


To take that picture, I can assure you that my FR8's were very carefully placed on the concrete sidewalk.
So Forrest, if you had gotten your rear end down/up (which ever) to the CO Springs show last weekend, you'd have had a golden opportunity to be the proud owner of a nice FR8 or two. I had two (2) to select from. But what the hey, seems you seldom ever make the CO Springs shows anymore.:D
And with that, I'll most likely be the LAST poster in this nice thread.:sad:

Groucho
May 08, 2008, 08:06
Nope, you probably won't be the last poster.

Hey Forrest, whilst people are showing pics of their rifles, how about one of your LAR 8? :rofl:

Groucho
I really shouldn't tease him like that. Plus, I shouldn't hijack a thread like I just did.

dscottch
May 08, 2008, 14:52
Does anyone know who has any of the FR8's. Thanks. I looked around but couldn't find any.

ftierson
May 10, 2008, 13:44
Originally posted by Groucho
Nope, you probably won't be the last poster.

Hey Forrest, whilst people are showing pics of their rifles, how about one of your LAR 8? :rofl:

Groucho
I really shouldn't tease him like that. Plus, I shouldn't hijack a thread like I just did.

Groucho, here it is...






























Nice, eh?

:)

(And sorry for the hijack, too...)

Forrest

Cava3r4
May 29, 2008, 13:48
A Savage or Remington Varmint rifle (with the heavy barrel) will do the job just as nicely and for a lot less dough.
Be sure you get the 1 in 10 twist so you can shoot the 175 grain sierra match king bullet and it STAYS supersonic at 1000 yards.
I have a Weatherby vanguard (although in .270) and I am really not that impressed.
It is nice looking but my CHEAP savage will out shoot it any day.
Bob

AGG
May 29, 2008, 13:55
There is an FN 30-11 sniper rifle (51 imported) for sale for 2K on GA!!! :eek:

Tony

ppo84
May 30, 2008, 14:12
I have to agree with those mentioning the Savage rifles, I have a mod 10 with 24" heavy bbl. It has proven super accurate and I had enough $$ left after buying it to splurge for a nice tactical scope(nikon). Although it does not have a detachable mag, I understand the newer model for this yr. can be ordered with one. Also love the accutrigger. I got it for reasons similar, ie being able to use .308 or 7.62 surplus. Only problem I have encountered is with the firing pin strike not being heavy enough to always set off those hard military primers with the 7.62 surplus(at least the port and sa). It also is a lot easier to switch out barrells ,if you ever want to, on a Savage. All you need is a barrell nut wrench and set of go-no go guages(and the new bbl of course). My FAL with a 21" bbl and the 24" savage bolt gun are pretty mutch the same overall length so they fit nicely in the same case.

indy_Muaddib
May 31, 2008, 09:00
i have an ancient High Standard (JC Higgins) model 50 in 30-06 with a chamber insert to bring it down to .308

receiver is FN made Mauser.

hot shit and i paid $75 for it at a yard sale.

GlockIII
June 12, 2008, 12:37
I have a Steyr SSG PIIK with a Schmidt & Bender PM-I scope. I bought it in 2000, and have not had one day of regret. When buying the SSG a few of my considerations were:

Shooting Distance
Weight
Durability
Economy, and last but not least
I wanted something right out of the box that I did not need to modify at all.

Prior to purchasing I did a very extensive research on rifles ranging from Remington to FN to Sig to Tikka to Accuracy International. By the time one is done modifying a Remington it is as much or more expensive than the Steyr. The others cost a whole lot more without bringing much to the party.

My Steyr has repeatedly shot between 0.6-0.75MOA (prone position) over the past 8 years. I only use the Federal GMM (168gr.) ammo. While the MOA of my rifle has been proven in the field (700yds. max), please take that with a grain of salt. My personal view (FWIW) on all the MOA talk is that if one were trying to shoot at a fleeting target at 100yds or 200yds the MOA stuff becomes irrelevant.

I highly recommend that whatever rifle you go with, the scope should be of the same value. There is no point buying a FN rifle (to take a fine product as an example) and installing a Nikon scope on it. My PIIK and my S&B were both about $1300 each. Best of Luck!

Heat
June 12, 2008, 17:02
Hey if you have several thousand to spend than go for it..if you want a .308 bolt gun that will shoot all day and kill critters than here is an economical way to do it
http://i30.tinypic.com/307u5wk.jpg
http://www.samcoglobal.com/m1916.html
YES you can scope this rifle, yes it can be made even more accurate and all for alot less than the over-priced above referenced rifle/scope combo
take extra dollars and spend on ammo and reloading gear

vern357
June 12, 2008, 18:15
For bare bones fun, I just picked up a Spanish Mauser in .308 for $150, great new truck gun :)

yarro
June 12, 2008, 21:04
Both .308 Win and 7.62x51mm NATO operate at approximately the same max. pressure more or less. This is due to the two different methods of measurement currently used by NATO and SAMMI. .308 Win. pressure is peak pressure measured in PSI with a peizo type transducer installed in such a way that there is a hole drilled into the test cartridge so that gas acts directly on the transducer as per SAMMI specs. NATO spec measurement is done in CUP PSI measured with a copper crusher with no hole drilled in the case. When SAMMI still specified CUP, the difference was 2000 PSI higher for .308 Win. due to the hole drilled in the cartridge case. I have an old Lyman reloading manual packed in a box somewhere that lists the SAMMI pressures in CUP and outlines both methods of measurement. The differences is in the bullets available and chamber sizes, and preformance. NATO specifies one FMJ bullet design and weight, one API, one AP, one Tracer, on APT bullet design. The throat is generally longer, chamber of greater length and girth, max head space is also longer. Cartridge dimensions are the same. Military ammo generally has a stronger case head, narrow OAL, and slightly less capacity than commercial cases due to the larger chamber and earlier extraction that happens in MGs. NATO specs call for a very narrow acceptable velocity range and a minimum group size for 10 rounds out of a test fixture.

Most .308 chambered guns are safe to shoot 7.62 NATO out of unless they are custom chambered with a short throat or tight chamber. Not all .308 Win ammo is safe to shoot in a 7.62 NATO chambered gun as the bullet may be too long for the NATO throat and cause high pressure or the pressure curve may be wrong. It depends on the firearm's design. An adjustable gas system gun, like a FAL, is much more forgiving than a delayed blowback gun, like a G3. Some of the comercial semi-autos are weaker actions than most military designs. like the Remington 7400. There are also a few folks who load some ammo beyond that have a very wide peak on the pressure curve, like Hornday Light Magnums, which state that it is not safe in any semi-auto firearm not to mention handloader who push the limits of safety. The other thing to watch out for is that substantially heavier bullets that have the same peak pressure with a transducer as a light bullet will generally measure a higher PSI with a copper crusher due to the wider pressure curve from the slower burning powders generally used.

Remember I said 7.62x51mm NATO so that means NATO marked headstamp produced in a NATO country. Indian and Pakistani would never meet NATO specs due to the overly high defect rates and general inconsistancy and really should be referred to as 7.62x51mm. I believe the reluctance of NATO to change to transducer measurements is that PSI CUP can not be converted into peak PSI as measured by a transducer so all prior CUP data could longer be compared to any new data. The commercial ammunition manufactures changed as transducer measurement costs less and they can view the whole pressure curve instead of the pseudo average peak given by CUP. Viewing the whole pressure curve allowed better powders to be formulated to get better preformance from modern catridges.

-Yarro

seg
June 15, 2008, 22:03
Not mine and dont know anything about it, but its a custom Mauser starting bid> $525 and $525 buy it now

http://www.auctionarms.com/Search/DisplayItem.cfm?ItemNum=8660412

Might be worth a look

aussiedave
June 16, 2008, 00:23
there is a gunsmith/dealer who builds .308 cal hunting rifles on hand picked brno mauser 98 actions and have bran new hart barrels in them,timeny triggers,bolt handle turned for scope, low swing safety, drilled and tapped with mounts he wants $450-$475 for them, they are real tack drivers.
pm me if you want details/dealers address/phone.

goon
June 16, 2008, 18:45
Aussie Dave - is this guy in the US?
If he is, can you give an email address or other contact info?