View Full Version : Reload problem in STG 58
May 21, 2001, 00:59
I am reloading 147 grn FN pulled bullets in Federal Match brass with winchester standard primers over 45 grains of H4895. Have noticed that some of the primers have taken very hard firing pin strikes, some even fully punctured.
This leads me to believe that something is not as it should be, but I do not where the problem is. The rifle is a home built Austrian kit on an Imbel reciever. Timed properly and headspaced using national match as go and national match with masking tape as no go.
It shoots very well, and functions perfectly on gas of 5. What leads to the overly punched primers??
Thanks in advance.
May 21, 2001, 02:37
Either a burr on your firing pin (you'll notice it more on comercial primers - they aren't as "hard" as military primers) or excessive pressure. Either back off the powder charge a little and try again or buy some of the "hard" primers and try again. Are the ones that aren't punctured showing signs of excessive pressure?
May 21, 2001, 04:34
No other signs of excess pressure. Only a few are punctured, others look normal. I really hope the problem is in the ammo and not the rifle. I will try to post a pic when I can get hands on a digital camers.
May 21, 2001, 06:25
I may have figured the problem out.
I did not crimp my reloads. I think that some of the rounds may have had the bullets pushed into the case during firing. This would generate more pressure in that round and may explain the punctured primers. The rounds that were not affected bythe recoil would appear normal.
I might be wrong but it makes sense to me.
I will take the lot out and crimp them and see what happens.
Let me know what you think.
Thanks in advance.
Have personally only seen punctured primers once before ... when large pistol primers were accidently used instead of large rifle. As ridiculous as this sounds, it did occur... due to being tired and making careless mistake when re-loading both .45 and .30-06 late one night. A more-experienced reloader pointed my error out to me when he saw the primers and obvious (to him) difference in the appearance of the seated primer.
May 21, 2001, 19:36
I vote for crappy primers.
I am the KING of pierced primers. I can say that I am responsible for AT LEAST 500 pierced primers in a large batch of .223 ammo I fired in my AR15. The load was a previously-fine load, using CCI standard small rifle primers. I switched to MAGNUM primers, and the problem went away immediately.
If you let the problem go unchecked, you will erode the tip of your firing pin, and you will enlarge the orifice through which the firing pin extends. Both, symptoms will exacerbate and accelerate the disease. Fortunately, AR15 bolts interchange freely, and cost relatively little. Not the case for most other rifles.
Herman, Your load is hot. Try two cut your load by several grains and see if you still encounter pierced primers. Also, check your firing pin tip for damage. If is has a burr, it will cause more pierced primers. The FAL will cause a hard strike to the primer, however it will not pierce it in a moderate load. Good Luck.
May 22, 2001, 16:11
After reloading for some 30 years I can tell you that with ANY MILITARY WEAPON you should use MAGNUM primers. They are a little bit thicker and will stop the piercings unless you have a firing pin burr. Try one plate of them and see if your problem stops.
Also re-check your load, 45gr 4895 is MAX'ed out on 308Win. 43gr is Mid range and it's also a lot easier on your FAL. Less wear on internals.
Take care and be SAFE!
May 22, 2001, 17:58
Are you using Hogdon's H-4895? Or IMR 4895? If it's IMR 4895, it's definitely a MAX load. Depending on which book you look at, it's either right at the limit or over. While a magnum large rifle primer is more heavily constructed to contain magnum pressures (like up to 5K more psi's), they're also supposed to ignite at significantly higher temperatures to ensure proper ignition of large quantities of slow burning and potentially difficult to ignite powder. Anyone know if using a really hot primer with a medium burn-rate powder will generate higher peak pressures?
Also, what was the outside temperature? If it was a warm day and your ammo rode around for a while in a hot trunk, that could push an already maxed load to unsafe levels.
[ May 22, 2001: Message edited by: Wadman ]
May 22, 2001, 19:41
Well, I'll be da*n, My Speer Manual doesn't even list H4895. That's why I didn't notice it. Live & learn. That why I'm intentionally forgetting things, so I'll get younger. But I can't remember why!
May 22, 2001, 23:45
Nosler #4 and Hornady 3rd edition don't list Hogdon H4895 for .308 either. Instead, they all list H322.
Herman07, let us know exactly what powder you're using (IMR or Hogdon). Then try backing off two full grains then test it. Have you got factory ammo as a control group? If the factory stuff shoots fine, you'll eliminate your firing pin as a potential problem.
May 23, 2001, 00:50
Powder is Hodgen 4895. Primers are Winchester Large Rifle for standard loads. It appears that the charge is excessive and I will back it down to 40 grains per Hornaday Fourth Edition.
I did not notice the pierced primers on factory ammo fired in the past. I agree with any who voted for hot loads and will post results when I get it fixed. Thank you for all of the advice.
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