Any BAD MilSurp?

[CWSTG58]

I've heard just about everything is good stuff. Radway is great, so is hirt, so is portugese, so is south african, so is singapore.........................

What surplus ammunition is the worst out there? Which ones would you not even both buying?

[ August 10, 2001: Message edited by: EMDII ]

[OZ]

Chilean surplus is one to avoid .... never shot one, but several shooters who have suggested me to avoid them entirely.

Argie is a little better.

[EOE]

Just my opinion but I'd stay away from any loose packed ammo. I'll only buy in the original packaging.
Stay away from anything with a TZ headstamp.
Especially TZ 80. I've had numerous ruptured cases.

[BUFF]

About five years ago, I ordered 500 rounds of loose 7.62x51 milsurp from Paragon. I needed some ammo for a training class and didn't want to use any good stuff, since I couldn't recover the brass. (I was unfamiliar with milsurp sources then.) It came in a large ammo can. It was mixed. I decided to sort it by headstamp. I was unable, from 500 rounds, to get a single 20 round mag full of anything!

I have never shot it. I didn't think ammo that mixed would be useful for training. I might use it to break in my C.E.T.M.E., if I can ever afford one.

I would buy de-linked stuff from a reputable source, but anything removed from an original package may be suspect.

[ May 16, 2001: Message edited by: BUFF ]

[Uncle Buck]

I just want to second the undesirability of Israeli TZ80 ammo because of split case heads. I experienced the same problem with another mixed headstamp, tarnished Isreali that was sold loose.
UB

[K. Funk]

Buff,

I think I got some of the same stuff. I have two .50 cans of loose .308 that I bought from Paragon as well. I have never shot any either. I soon learned not to buy anything from Paragon. The hard lesson was "1000 rounds mixed calibers, just clean 'em up, sort 'em out and your ready to go $80.00/k" What I got was 30 lbs of smashed empty cases. It only took a few threatening phone calls to get a refund. That was the end of all dealings with them.

krf

[fresca]

I've seen Chilean blow the magazine out of an FAL. :eek:

[BUFF]

Yup, Paragon sucks.

[Azalin]

One of the employe's are a local range bought some surplus ammo from Argentina and had numerous problems with it. First he could not get his rifle to cycle reliably with the ammo. Second he could never produce a group where the holes where touching. Normally he uses FNM and has neither of these problems.

The Azalin

[IronHands]

I have the Izzy ammo that every one talks about,I have not had a problem in over 500 rds. I have approx. 450 rds. left and plan to shoot it up real soon. This have the best shooting stuff I've had, maybe I was just lucky,it's from the same lot that everyone has had problems with. :confused:

[IronHands]

I have the Izzy ammo that every one talks about,I have not had a problem in over 500 rds. I have approx. 450 rds. left and plan to shoot it up real soon. This have the best shooting stuff I've had, maybe I was just lucky,it's from the same lot that everyone has had problems with. :confused:

[Uncle Buck]

Iron Hands,
Did you check the brass carefully? Most of the splits (about 1 in 50 for my lot) were tiny and would be hard to notice, but 1 in 500 was spectacular, blowing out the floor plate in the mag. If you are shooting the same ammo, you may be about due for a surprise.

[RayVet]

Have not had any problems with Artgentine. Very consistent, maybe a bit dirty, not enough to cause malfunctions. Good price and good performance prompted me to buy another case.

[IronHands]

Uncle Buck, I've taken all of the brass back to a friend who reloads,he has not said any thing about it. He will usually say something about bad ammo.So far no problems or blown mags, if I have any problems I'll be sure to thank you for the jinx(smile).

[garand1944]

I would advise anyone to purchase the TZ stamped .308 if it is still in the sealed can. I bought many 500 rd cans from AIM a couple of years ago. The cans are perfect and sealed like they should be with the IMI "tamperproof" seal in place. It is beyond a doubt the best surplus ammo I have ever bought anywhere of any caliber. As with anything retail, you have the good, the bad and the ugly. Your better importers paid the extra and bought the stuff which was stored right and sealed. Your lesser importer (I will mention no name) bought the crap. Stuff that was reloaded, stored in open cans and otherwise left out by the IDF for whatever reason to turn to shit. Also, a lot of it is just TZ stamoed brass. Another importer bought all the brass and had some idiot somewhere reload it screwing up the brass in the process. To make a long story completely boring, don't buy it loose, mixed or any other way. Sealed can with the factory seal intact. Just sharing my experience, strength and hope.

[IronHands]

Garand1944, I too bought my ammo from Aim.Maybe one or two rds. per box has some slight corrosion on it. I've shot approx.550 rds. and have not had a single problem,I agree this is the best surplus.I only wish it was cheaper,when I bought a case it was only $160.00!

[garand1944]

I paid $160 as well and I also should have bought more. Hoplite and Ky Imports both have sealed cans (500rd) but now it is $250 a 1000. The shit is clean and accurate. I need more and can't decide what flavor to get. The Hirtenberger is good I hear but so is most any of it a reputable dealer has. Like I said before, you buy cheap shit from a cheap shit dealer and guess what? You get shit. Cheap.

[paintballmagnet]

Several people here have had bad things to say about CAVIM ammo. I've been lucky in that all of it that I have tried has been OK.
Not the most accurate or the cleanest burning but it does the job for me.

[F4GIB]

Do not by ORV headstamp ammo from India.

[stargazer]

I have one 20 rd. pack of TZ 69 and I think I'll save it for the moment," I am out of ammo and their coming down the hall!". Closeup inspection reveals minute cracks at the cannelure crimps. Always remember, Brass gets harder with age, just like Aluminum.

[Charmedlyfe]

INDIAN.....Rots your gun....kinda like sugar and teeth.....

[ROCK-n-GLOCK]

Another vote for the INDIAN crappola

[killer-dealz]

I have shot a crapload of the Indian mil-surp with very few issues. Besides being on the dirty side it's a tremendous value for your dollar spent. I do check my cases before loading but then again does not everybody?

[Blood of Tyrants]

There is no "bad" ammo. It is just misunderstood.:biggrin:

[BroncoMafia]

Originally posted by CWSTG58
I've heard just about everything is good stuff. Radway is great, so is hirt, so is portugese, so is south african, so is singapore.........................

What surplus ammunition is the worst out there? Which ones would you not even both buying?


I understand your confusion CW.
Surplus ammunition commonly available in recent history has come in varying types and years for many of the manufacturing nations.

Example: The latest batch of Indian surplus .308 was produced after the year 2000. It comes wrapped 10 rounds in a clear plastic sleave then in ammo cans.
This stuff has major QC issues and is considered a good value only by those who value low cost above reasonable safety.
HOWEVER, earlier batches of imported ammo (can't remember years, but '80s and earlier seems right) have an excellent reputation.

SO, when you ask "Is Indian ammo any good?"
About 1 in 10 replies you will get will be someone who stockpiled a few thousand rounds of the good stuff years ago and is still shooting it. To them, "yup, Indian is good."

Even Hirt, arguably one of the most revered surplus ammo types ever to hit the shores, had some "bad batches"
Specifically, the wooded crates it shipped in had significant water damage, and battle packs were crackets. Water damage occured.
Even this ammo shot pretty well, but it looked really bad and needed to be cleaned before shooting.
If the only Hirt you ever ordered was that stuff, and you didn't know the deal, you might think all Hirt was dirty crappy ammo.

In addition to different vintages, there also different types/batches of similar time stamps.

Malaysian on links in cans vs. boxes of 20 in battle packs: Totally different ammo.

Israeli TZ loose in cans, mixed headstamp? TOTALLY different from sealed crates in 20 round boxes.

I guess my point is, you need to be specific.

Search the online ammo vendors and make a list of what you are considering.
Submit that list to this forum and we will give you the good/bad/ugly on what you are looking at.
But if you ask us "Is Radwood Green any good?" be prepared for very mixed opinions.

[Transponder]

I have had nothing but problems from the Indian .308. I will not cycle anything that I have. Plus it smells horrible! Gunpowder is supposed to smell like, well, gunpowder. This stuff smells like pure sulfur with a little bit of methane mixed in if you know what I am saying. And how about those bullets falling out of the cartridges? That is not supposed to happen until AFTER the firing pin hits the primer. But then again I am a glutton for punishment. I have tried to put more than 500 rounds of this stuff downrange with both my M1A and FAL. There is nothing more impressive than a bolt action M1A or FAL.

[K. Funk]

Wow, what a difference 3 years makes!! Just last month I shot up the last of the 1k mixed Izzy bought from Paragon mentioned above!! Maybe in another 3 years we can revive this post so I can tell ya I shot up the last of my 2200 rds of Indian. I shouldn't complain to much, I have gone through 2 cans with zero problems.

krf

[TStafford]

76 Port

[Nickle]

I've had a few problems with the Indian. It's cheap enough to get, and IF you're prepared to deal with a few Fail to Fires, is OK for PRACTICE. It's cheaper than making my own, even if the quality isn't the best.

[Eclipse]

Indian

[Bubba FAL]

Iraqi .303

Bought 500 rds. of it back in the early 90's. Corrosive, about 15% duds, lots of hangfires and split necks. Accurate enough if you could get it to go boom, which wasn't often enough.

Only cool thing about the stuff was it came on strippers in bandoleers.

[khays]

Currently shooting up the last 1700 rounds of 3K of CAVIM bought 5 years ago.

Now stockpiling FNM (Portugeuse) purchased in the original sealed crate. Get it before it is gone.

Someday, I'll crack open those last two ammo cans of TW 67 Dad snagged...

Kirk