C1A1 ???

[Ricoim]

Whats the value of a C1A1 with no import marks, sear cut and a fabrique Nationale receiver.

[Brad]

Unless it is registered with the BATF as NFA weapon and a $200 tax stamp was paid upon transfer, it is worth several years at hard labor in a Federal prison , all expenses paid...

[W.E.G.]

Originally posted by Ricoim
Whats the value of a C1A1 with no import marks, sear cut and a fabrique Nationale receiver.

Assuming it is a legal weapon, $2000 - $5000 depending on condition and verifiable authentic configuration.

[Ricoim]

Its semi auo and it came from the Bruce Stern Collection and auction

[EX1]

Hello it is a parts kit on a Belgian receiver. There is another C1 parts kit on a Belgian type II receiver floating around it might even show up at the Tulsa gun show this weekend. The gun that i have seen is on a type II Belgian receiver with a Devco marking on the bbl. Thanks EX1

[Brad]

Originally posted by Ricoim
Whats the value of a C1A1 with no import marks, sear cut and a fabrique Nationale receiver.

Its semi auo and it came from the Bruce Stern Collection and auction


If it is a real Canadian C1A1 with a non import marked, sear cut FN manufactured receiver, and unless is has been specifically exempted from the GCA, like the G series rifles that are all listed by serial number, it is a big no bueno... Things like this happen from time to time with established auction houses dealing old large firearm collections...

Just a FYI

Ill gladly buy the parts kit if its a real C1A1 after its taken off the receiver of course, if you decide to sell it...

Brad

[Ricoim]

This is no parts kit what so ever, everything is worn and matching, it looked like at one point in time someone installed the safety sear and it became FA.

[Ricoim]

I have pictures posted in another forum
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=37046&highlight=g+series

[Brad]

That is a Canadian C1A1 parts kit on a commercial type one metric receiver... It still uses metric magazines... Very cool though, are you going to sell it???

I'm interested if its for sale...

Brad

[Ricoim]

The rifle is going back to the Auctioneer and Im getting my money back if its a parts kit receciver, Im finding it hard to believe that its a parts kit on a receiver with the Sear cut and with matching numbered bolt & receiver. I see no indication that it is, every part is worn the same and is painted all the same. It still looks like a C1A1 illegaly brought over. Did the C1A1 have the same type of receiver as shown in my pictures?

[Brad]

check your PMs

[inrem]

People have speculated that the auctioned G-series was a G-series that was later simply done up with Canadian furiniture and such.

Is the receiver and such in the G-series serial number BATF exemption range? See http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter82.txt

[Ricoim]

Yes it is a g series receiver/metric but everything else, including barrel is inch pattern.

[EX1]

Hello take the HGs of and check the markings on the BBL. Thanks EX1

[sturmgrenadiere]

I wrote the auction house in Jan when I saw the catalog. They sent me an email (since deleted) with all the markings on the rifle; sounded like a parts kit to me.

[Abominog]

No matter how you slice it, it's a parts gun.

The reciever is a registered G series reciever made in Belgium and imported into USA.

The other parts are clearly C1A1, made on the shores of Lake Ontario.


Somebody, somewhere, put the C1A1 parts on the FN reciever.

If, and only if, there was some unique story behind it, would it be worth the money it sold for. But I can't think of such a story. Since the reciever was in USA, and C1A1 parts were imported in number, it is most likely that it was assembled in USA- not an "experiment" or anything in Canada. With no real provenance, it is simply a very, very nice parts gun.

[KIT]

Clearly someone at James D. Julia does not know their G Series FAL's. I did not personally examine the rifle that is in question but it 'appeared' to me to have been a very nice Canadian C1A1 kit that had been assembled onto legitimate G series FAL receiver (sn: G2820). It is clearly a mixture of inch parts on a metric receiver and a pretty expensive way to get a C1A1 likeness. Unfortunately it is neither fish nor fowl. Gven the collectability of a G Series FAL I sure hate to see one utilized as a host platform for a kit build if it is fact a legitimate G Series receiver. It is also very unfortunate that James D. Julia seems to have represented the rifle as a legitimate G Series FAL. I do not believe the mistake was intentional and many of members here recognized their mistake and the FAL for what it actually was.
I have attached a link below to a prevous thread here about the Stern auction:

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=227130

I have also attached the ad copy that James D. Julia posted for the FAL in question to include a pic of it taken from their website.


*FN-FAL SEMI AUTO RIFLE. SN G2820. Cal. 308. This early sear cut (G series) Belgian FN is a great example of the FAL's that were mfg. and used by most of the countries in the western world from the mid 1950's right up through the late 1980's and early 1990's. Rifles is in standard military configuration and in fantastic condition both metal and wood. And is accompanied by bayonet and scabbard as well as the adjustable rear sight, front sight cover and sling. Rifle is also equipped with the rare dust cover with integral stripper clip guide. PROVENANCE: Stern Collection. CONDITION: Receiver retains approx 95% of its green finish with just a couple minor scuffs here and there from opening the receiver and using the selector. Bbl and front sight cover retain better than 98% of their dark gray finish. All three pieces of wood are in fantastic condition with no cracks or dents and just the slightest bit of scuffing on the buttstock. This rifle would be a great addition to any military collection. Mechanics are crisp with a mirror bright bore. 4-34049 BK29 - Winning Bid: $6,325.00


It is what it is………………………

-KIT-

[KIT]

I agree completely Mr Lehrman....one heck of a price to pay for a kit built FAL....even if it was built with some mighty premium parts! I sure do hate to be the one to tell the buyer that it is not a legitimate G Series and ''it is what it is'' given the price paid for the rifle. You can just put so much lipstick on this pig. I also agree that I would be contacting the auction house about the rifle to see what options that I had available to me. Sure wish that Ricoim had checked here before bidding.

FYI, the recent Julia auction for the Stern collection grossed $12.7M and set a new record for firearms auctions. Look for additional details of it in a future edition of "Small Arms Review". Given those results I am certain that a number of collectors have shared your thoughts and are reconsidering where their collections will eventually end up one day!

Now about your attempt to 'rape' my quote,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
well ...I feel so .....exploited.................................... ......................:wink:


Cheers

-KIT-

[Brian in MN]

Why do people put that shiny stuff on (what must have been) mint as issued wood? Ugh.

I have to admit that this thread was a bit of a surprise. Thought for sure that it was going to be another type III Century gun with "Made in Canada" written on it.

[1stTexan]

Don't knock that "Made in Canada" Receiver. It is an unmarked Imbel forged unit. I will buy all I can find!

[vmtz]

Ditto on that.

[Brian in MN]

Mebbe so but they sure ain't C1A1s.

[vfubar]

If it were a legit C1A1, the receiver would have come from Long Branch, not FN, and would not be importable, as the BATFE guys consider it a 'machine gun', in spite of the fact it was built as a semi, only, in the C1 configuration.
Sold as a 'G' series, it is legal, with the 'G' selector; substitute an STG58 selector, and it is now a machine gun, under the law, and ever more will be so, making it technically illegal, forever.
All the Aussie, Brit, and Canadian rifles used 'inch pattern' receivers, and mags; most will accept and function with metric mags, but retention can be a problem, in worn rifles, or with worn mags.
The auction house needs some help, with their research.

[1stTexan]

Being that the C1A1 is an inch config and full auto. I have no interest personally. I find the inch guns to be clunky and unbalanced and very little interest. I guess everyone has a type that gives them serious wood or plastic depending on configuartion!! LOL :aug:

[1stTexan]

That "MADE IN CANADA" Imbel upper receiver sure worked out fine!

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll186/1sttexan/ah3460299516.jpg
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll186/1sttexan/ah346049115.jpg
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll186/1sttexan/ah3460996114.jpg

[1stTexan]

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll186/1sttexan/ah34601194217.jpg

[Ricoim]

Good news to all that responded to my deathful experience!!!! I sent the rifle back and received a full refund!!!YAAAA!! Good part about it, I already have a g-series, brand new with cosmo smut on it, manual and scope on the way. Funny how things work themselves out. Be sure to follow up on the rifle on the Julia auction!!!!

I will post new pictures of the rifle once it gets here.

[sturmgrenadiere]

Thats good news, since months ago I had emailed the company about the rifle, and the replied back that it couldn't have been a true C1 for the reasons already stated...

[Para Driver]

Originally posted by sturmgrenadiere
Thats good news, since months ago I had emailed the company about the rifle, and the replied back that it couldn't have been a true C1 for the reasons already stated...

and given that info, the auction house just went right ahead and sold it...
gotta ask about their 'ethics' don't 'ya?