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FC-BEAVERS
March 30, 2008, 12:04
I recently decided to invest in a V-53 SBR and this will be my first NFA firearm. Im a complete noob so I have a few questions.

1. I know that forms need to be filled out and the $200 stamp tax will need to be paid. What form will I need to fill out?

2. Will I have to buy it through a Class 3 dealer or Will I be able to get it through my regular FFL?

3. Finally I stumbled across a webiste a while back that had online versions of ATF forms but for the life of me I cant remember the address of the website. Can someone point me in the right direction please.

gunplumber
March 30, 2008, 15:21
If you wish to purchase one that is ALREADY an SBR, and the posessor is not in your state, and is an NFA dealer, then

You pay for the gun, dealer transfers to NFA dealer in your state (form 3 tax exempt), dealer sells to you on form 4 (tax paid transfer).

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If you wish to purchase one that is ALREADY an SBR, and the possessor is not in your state, and is NOTan NFA dealer, then

You pay for the gun, seller transfers to an NFA dealer in his state ($200 tax), dealer transfers to NFA dealer in your state (form 3 tax exempt), dealer sells to you on form 4 (tax paid transfer). Obviously, this 2-tax route is rarely cost effective

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If you wish to purchase one that is ALREADY an SBR, and the possessor is in your state, and is NOT an NFA dealer, then

You pay for the gun, seller transfers to directly to you on form 4 (tax paid transfer).

Same would apply for an SBR in posession of a dealer in your state.

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SBR Ready

This is the easiest. The gun is in the configuration you want with a barrel extension soldered or welded or blind pinned in place to increase the barrel length to 16". The gun transfers as a title 1 firearm. On receipt, you file aform 1 (tax paid manufacture) and on approval, you cut off the barrel extension, or pay somone to do it for you.

FC-BEAVERS
March 30, 2008, 16:40
I have a quick question about SBR Ready. Could I buy a V53 pistol and convert it to a SBR later? This option would probabally be the cheapest as I could buy the pistol from my FFL dealer and get the SBR approved at a later date. Is this possible?

gunplumber
March 30, 2008, 16:46
you can convert a pistol to a rifle by registering it as an NFA item. Typically this would be an "Any other weapon). The SP89 is a good example. Converting it to an MP5 K is an AOW.

I am unsure if you could register it as an SBR. The transfer tax on an AOW is $5, but the making tax is still $200 (I don't know why the difference).

FC-BEAVERS
March 30, 2008, 22:42
Ok just to review.

Buy a V-53 pistol through my regualr FFL. Convert the V-53 pistol to a V-53 SBR by filling out a Form 1 and registering it as an AOW. I will pay the $200 manufacturing tax but since it will be registered as an AOW so any transfer after this will only cost $5.

gunplumber
March 31, 2008, 10:37
That is how I understand it.

diana-ar15
March 31, 2008, 21:01
Originally posted by FC-BEAVERS
Ok just to review.

Buy a V-53 pistol through my regualr FFL. Convert the V-53 pistol to a V-53 SBR by filling out a Form 1 and registering it as an AOW. I will pay the $200 manufacturing tax but since it will be registered as an AOW so any transfer after this will only cost $5.


IF you make an SBR out of a pistol .. it will NOT be AOW qualified .. IT WILL be an SBR!

gunplumber
March 31, 2008, 21:14
Really? So if I want to put a front pistol grip on an HK SP89, I register it as an AOW. But then if I want to put a stock on it, I have to re-register it as an SBR?

Remember, we are not talking about shortening a rifle, we are talking about adding a stock to a pistol.

USMC 0341
April 01, 2008, 01:16
Yes, an AOW cannot have a stock so you would want to register this as an SBR if you are looking to have a stock on it.

The other benefit of going this route is the fact that both the pistol version and the SBR do not need to be compliant with 922(r). If you bought a rifle and then did the legal administration and machining steps to convert it to an SBR you would have wasted money on the US made parts for a ban compliant rifle.

Prototype Services
April 01, 2008, 05:05
Yeah Mark, The AOW only applies to the vertical foregrip. AOW has no buttstock.

To add a stock to a pistol, first Form-1 SBR.

Mark, on your HK example, if you want the K-grip and a stock, SBR. Once SBR, the foregrip is not regulated.

gunplumber
April 01, 2008, 10:26
thank you, good to know - I've never done an AOW before, they've all been SBRs so the question never came up.

Snert
April 01, 2008, 18:28
You are better off buying the firearm in SBR configuration right from the start.

If you buy the pistol version, dont put a stock on it till you have the stamp back. If you do put the stock on it and someone see's and reports it your in deep doodoo..

Just so you know, If you buy a pistol and register it later with NFA as a SBR. YOU now have to have your info engraved/stamped on the gun forever. YOU are now the manufacturer, so now you are the maker of the SBR. So later in time you sell it, your name stays on the gun for life. And with todays loveley lawyers, and some stupid people, well you get the point...liability, even though you did not make a single part of the gun, you are still considered the manufacturer.

one last thought, if you want a SBR, do it now before the election. If you buy it as a pistol, then plan on doing the SBR registration later, well it could never happen...

Take the plunge, just do it once and do it right... it will be alot easier. OH one last thing, to give you a idea...Not to deter you either...
I bought a SBR on 12-09-07, To this day I still do not have the SBR in my possesion..It is a sit and wait game...hopefully in the next week I will have it. I sent my papers for tax stamp the last week of Jan. SO we are on 8 weeks as of yesterday. Well they cashed my check on Feb 4th.

Snert..

PS. If you buy the V-53 as a SBR, then it has to goto a FFL with class3/SOT papers.
If you buy it as a pistol, any FFL will do. If later you register it as a SBR, you are the manufacturer, with it in your possesion, no FFL needed. But you will have to have it engraved/stamped into the reciever your info..After the tax stamp is in your possesion..

FC-BEAVERS
April 01, 2008, 19:24
Originally posted by Snert
You are better off buying the firearm in SBR configuration right from the start.

If you buy the pistol version, dont put a stock on it till you have the stamp back. If you do put the stock on it and someone see's and reports it your in deep doodoo..

Just so you know, If you buy a pistol and register it later with NFA as a SBR. YOU now have to have your info engraved/stamped on the gun forever. YOU are now the manufacturer, so now you are the maker of the SBR. So later in time you sell it, your name stays on the gun for life. And with todays loveley lawyers, and some stupid people, well you get the point...liability, even though you did not make a single part of the gun, you are still considered the manufacturer.

one last thought, if you want a SBR, do it now before the election. If you buy it as a pistol, then plan on doing the SBR registration later, well it could never happen...

Take the plunge, just do it once and do it right... it will be alot easier. OH one last thing, to give you a idea...Not to deter you either...
I bought a SBR on 12-09-07, To this day I still do not have the SBR in my possesion..It is a sit and wait game...hopefully in the next week I will have it. I sent my papers for tax stamp the last week of Jan. SO we are on 8 weeks as of yesterday. Well they cashed my check on Feb 4th.

Snert..

PS. If you buy the V-53 as a SBR, then it has to goto a FFL with class3/SOT papers.
If you buy it as a pistol, any FFL will do. If later you register it as a SBR, you are the manufacturer, with it in your possesion, no FFL needed. But you will have to have it engraved/stamped into the reciever your info..After the tax stamp is in your possesion..

I would but heres the problem. Im only 19 so my father will be the one buying it. Our FFL lets us buy guns from him for dealer price plus $35 transfer because we do so much other business with him(gunshop/feedstore/wildlife supply) I work for a game ranch so they get alot of our business so they know me on a first name basis. I figure if I buy it now I will not have to worry about the possibility of not being able to buy it later. If my dad buys it as an SBR now it will cost just as much for me to buy the pistol and then convert it when im 21. so I figure i would just buy it as a pistol so I can use it now. Ive been buying since I was 15 and have invested in a grand total $9200 in firearms. Might as well buy them now before I have real responsibility.

Snert
April 02, 2008, 17:47
All I can say is watch the news..there is a up comming election, things might just get ugly for us gun owners..

Snert...

Prototype Services
April 02, 2008, 21:00
I'd buy the pistol now and SBR when it is convenient.
I doubt the election will affect any NFA stuff. It is incredibly regulated already.
But it could stop you from buying any EBRs or EBR-style pistols if we get another ban.

Highdraglowspeed
April 04, 2008, 23:10
Who are you doing your transfers through right now FC?

FC-BEAVERS
April 04, 2008, 23:23
Originally posted by Highdraglowspeed
Who are you doing your transfers through right now FC?

Funny yet sad story about this.

Called my FFL yesterday (its been about 6 months) only to find out that the guy I dealt with in the past is no longer with the company. So I ask to speak with someone about FFL transfers as my dad was going to be ordering a couple of items and the new guy tells me that they no longer do transfers because the ATF almost shut them down 4 months ago. The new guy gave me a holier than thou attitude so I told him thank you for your time and hung up the phone. The guy f#@ked up because he just lost about $4000 in deer blind sales within the next 3 months.

So as of right now im in the market for a new FFL dealer and Wildlife Supply Company. Im about 45 miles south of San Antonio so if anyone has any recomdations please feel free to chime in.

Creepy
April 18, 2008, 20:34
Originally posted by gunplumber


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If you wish to purchase one that is ALREADY an SBR, and the possessor is not in your state, and is NOTan NFA dealer, then

You pay for the gun, seller transfers to an NFA dealer in his state ($200 tax), dealer transfers to NFA dealer in your state (form 3 tax exempt), dealer sells to you on form 4 (tax paid transfer). Obviously, this 2-tax route is rarely cost effective

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.

This part is not correct. An 01FFL/O3 SOT or O7FFL/02 SOT may receive an NFA device on a tax paid form 4, from a non-licensee owner and it will transfer Interstate to that dealer.

This "dealer in my state, dealer in your state" dance was something that was used to chisel another hundred bucks out of transferees for years in the grand tradition of J. Curtis Earll.

As an SOT you are permitted to RECEIVE firearms, including NFA, Inter-state, but they have to be on a tax-paid form.

Are there still 2 taxes incurred? Yes. Do you cut out one middleman of questionable worth, and the delays/hazards that accompany said middleman? Yes.
Is this 2 tax deal usually worth it on anything but machineguns? No. An extra 200 bucks is nothing when cheaply slapped-together M11/9s are selling for 3500 bucks and the cheapest Uzis are over 7500.

Creepy
April 30, 2008, 20:52
I'm surprised I didn't get some nasty response from Mr. know-it-allpants.

gunplumber
May 01, 2008, 10:25
I don't pay much attention to you, Derek. You just don't matter to me.

The route I outlined is legal, correct, and 2 taxes. I have enough approved NFA transfers under my belt, so I know my way is a correct way. That there may be other legal ways I don't dispute. My point, to which you have emphatically agreed, is buying an NFA item from out of state incurs 2 taxes. Your method also incurs two taxes.

And no, I won't apologize for being well educated in my field, so "know-it-all" I take as a compliment, even if you meant it otherwise.

Creepy
May 15, 2008, 20:54
The boogeyman still live under your bed?

Sorry I had to call "the man" and prove you a bit incorrect. When you're G.im P., having yer inaccuracies corrected is some kind of personal insult. I didnt even fix the formatting hodgepodge from cutting and pasting the email. Pleased that it got to you.

Remove a middleman. It's the American Way.

gunplumber
May 16, 2008, 10:00
Derek, aren't you banned from the files for stealing?