View Full Version : M1 newbie w/ question.
March 29, 2008, 11:03
Just getting my feet wet in the M1 game and had some questions. Since I cannot afford to buy a kit to build on, I'll probably take my nice SA receiver
and start purchasing parts a few at a time as funds allow. Not building a collector by any means so correct parts are not a issue. I've noticed shopping for parts that there a lot of variations in parts, (Flat vs. curved.
riveted vs. solid, SA vs. HRA vs. WRA etc). My question is what is the definitive source for what is compatible with what. Don't want to buy a bunch of parts that won't play well together.
March 29, 2008, 14:03
All I can do is echo Bill and add a link to CMP
March 29, 2008, 17:58
I guess I forgot to mention that I wanted to build a 7.62 as opposed to a
06. Trying to keep my ammo inventory to as few calibers as possible.
(stocked up real well when milsurp 7.62 was still cheap). Never liked 30.06
much anyway. Thought it was ok for BAR's or 1919's in the SAW role, but thought it was a bit of overkill for a battle rifle. I understand Bill's comments
and agree completely,but with the economy the way it is now, and the influx of immigrants in the last ten years in my area. Wages are less than they were 15 years ago for the same jobs. A fella has to do things a piece at a time. I started building with FAL's the kit method, and wound up spending more by the time I changed this piece and then that piece to my
liking. I understand that I will end up with more in it than it's worth in the end, but I can only afford to build it a few pieces at a time. I've limited my parts choices to NIW, or original finish to show the wear as I will repark as I go. Many thanks for the input as there are so many options on parts and just didn't want to waste money on incompatible parts.
Thanks, J.K.:bow: :bow:
March 30, 2008, 15:00
I'd still go with CMP. Get one of the lower grades, such as a Rack Grade (cheapest) and swap the barrel. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the change from .30-'06 to 7.62 NATO (.308) is just a barrel change, and a block that fits in the mag well to keep the shorter cartridges in the clip under recoil.
I'm not sure it's worth it, however. After all, you can buy 768 rounds of Greek (good stuff) of .30-'06 in en-block clips and bandoleers for $200.00 + shipping. Shoot it all up, then reload the empties 3 more times. You probably can't get a barrel for $200.00.
As a matter of fact, I'd buy the M1 plus the .30-'06 ammo, then just shoot it all up, plus the reloads. After that the barrel is probably worn out, so you can decide then if you want to re-barrel in .30-'06 or 7.62 NATO at that time, depending on price and availability of ammo.
Seven or eight years ago I was restricting myself to 7.62 NATO battle rifles, but I bought an M1 plus ammo from CMP just for nostalgia sake. Now, seeing how high the price of 7.62 NATO has gotten, I'm glad I did.
March 30, 2008, 16:23
I converted a rack grade H&R with a shot out barrel to 7.62 like chief said, 4 or 5 years ago, and it made a lot of sense then, but with the price of surplus 7.62 Nato through the roof, I don't know if it's worth it. I have an in-the-wrap SA barrel in 7.62 I bought around that time, with plans to rebarrel another of my Garands, but they all shoot too good to break up, I already have a 7.62 Garand, and several other 7.62 battle rifles with mouths to feed. I went the FAL kit route too, and a 1919 in 7.62. Unless you reload 7.62, are well supplied in brass, and don't want to get into another caliber, I would buy a service grade rifle from the CMP and as much 30-06 as you can afford, and have a ball with it. Just my $.02. In your case it would be a tough call, sounds like you are right on the fence.
Not sure what 7.62 barrels are going for now, but if you got a Garand from the CMP, you might get lucky enough to get a collectable barrel, sell it to help offset your cost.
April 02, 2008, 06:34
Originally posted by daddy0011
Never liked 30.06
much anyway. Thought it was ok for BAR's or 1919's in the SAW role, but thought it was a bit of overkill for a battle rifle. Thanks, J.K.:bow: :bow:
Of course it's overkill for a battle rifle. That's what is so cool about it.:biggrin: Seriously, have you ever shot one in original caliber? When I first got mine I was thinking about going the 7.62 route as well, and then I shot it as is. I am glad I didn't change it. CMP is the only way to go.
April 02, 2008, 09:31
Originally posted by daddy0011
I understand that I will end up with more in it than it's worth in the end, but I can only afford to build it a few pieces at a time.
Thanks, J.K.:bow: :bow:
Sarco used to have an Italian Garand kit in 7.62x 51. It sounds perfect for what you are doing. I do not see it on their website now but I do recall it in their SGN ad as recently as 6 months ago. It may be worth a call.
This was the description of the kit.
"KIT "C" 7.62 Nato M1 parts Set Refinished (M1RK-C) - Same quality parts as in our ?B: kit, except the barrel is a almost new take off, never fired. U.S. /G.I. Springfield Armory 1960's date marked barrel in 7.62mm NATO! Barrels were .30-06 G.I. barrels converted to 7.62mm NATO by Beretta for use in Italian issue M1 rifles. Conversion done by shortening barrel by 1/2 inch and rechambering. The operating rod has also been shortened to work with these barrels. You will have to shorten the rear handguard by 1/2 inch to fit the shorter barrel. This set comes with a new G.I. proper stock. $334.50"
April 02, 2008, 17:26
I bought two Garands via CMP, one service and one rack. Springfield rebarreled the rack grade with a NM 30-06 barrel. Even without glassbedding and unitizing the hadguard she shoots real nice for really not a bad price or turnaround time (I think about $250 installed). Its not a Krieger barrel but sure is fun and accurate. I am sure Springfield will install a 308 barrell. A rack gun + barrel is likely your cheapest route (not that anything in M1 world is cheap). As for ammo ... get a bolt gun in 30-06 too that way you NEED a supply of '06 for more than just the Garand (this is the logic that gets me in trouble at home). If 30-06 was good enough to kill Nazis and Japs in WWII then by God why change now?
April 27, 2008, 15:27
Thought it was ok for BAR's or 1919's in the SAW role, but thought it was a bit of overkill for a battle rifle.
First off, there is really only a little differance between 7.72 and 30.06 ballistically. The Garand was made for 30.06 and I can understand your concern about not having to buy another caliber of ammo. However, you shold realize that 7.62 goes for about .50 cents a round whereas 30.06 cab be had for half of that cost.
Secondly, the gas port in the barrel is going to have to be opened up by just a c hair. If you do not do this modification, the rifle will have a tendancy not to cycle properly when in use. I would definatley get a CMP rack grade, try it out, if you like it then I would invest into another barrel. FOr the cost of the barrel, you can make that up by selling that receiver you have.
ALso, there is a big differance between military 7.62 and civilian .308. While they almost look identical, they are not. PLease be advised that the pressure in the chamber while shooting military M2 ball ammo lingers around 35-40k PSI. Civilan .308 eceeds that and can go as high as 55k PSI in the chamber. Bottom line is dont shoot regular .308 store bought ammo from your M1.
Just my 2 cents-
April 27, 2008, 18:23
Let me just add that if you're starting to play with Garands, you're screwed.
Not that there's anything wrong with being screwed :wink:
April 28, 2008, 06:24
My two cents:
Stick with the .30-06. It's what the mechanism is designed for. The body taper and diameter at the back end on .308 is a few thou larger than the '06. This amount stacks up and makes the clips tighter. Yes, they still work, but it's a step in the wrong direction.
Right now, both the ammo and brass are cheaper and more plentiful than .308. And finally, there's nothing you can do with a .308 in a Garand that you can't do better with a .30-06. Pick any bullet, and you can get another 100+ fps within the same pressure limit, over the .308. This may not matter if it is a 100 yd gun, but if you plan to shoot it in matches at over 300 yds, it becomes significant.
April 28, 2008, 17:31
The Garand books by Scott Duff are an excellant resource, especially if you have a WWII receiver and want to start collecting 'correct' parts. Of course, as it was mentioned above, you would spend twice as much money on piecing together a gun that just buying one. It may even make sense to sell the receiver you have and put the money toward a gun, but find someone knowledgeable that you trust to look at what you have first. The CMP will have them for awhile, they just picked up 102,000 from the Greeks according to my last GCA newsletter. It will be interesting to see what comes out of that batch, as they are still in the process of inventorying and grading. Save your money, good stuff is on the horizon.
It is almost impossible to own only one Garand once you get started. I bought 'one' just to have, and at one time had as many as twelve, but have sold off a couple to fund other projects as the 'bugs' bit me.
April 28, 2008, 21:14
Originally posted by daddy0011
... Never liked 30.06
much anyway. Thought it was ok for BAR's or 1919's in the SAW role, but thought it was a bit of overkill for a battle rifle...
Dead with overkill is still dead. :wink:
There is alot of .30 cal surplus in clips out there for not a whole lot, and reloading is pretty easy. If nothing else, everyone and their dog has an '06.
April 28, 2008, 22:02
if you get a garand consider investing in a holbrook device.
$45 and no more garand thumb.
drops right in, takes no modification to any parts.
also, you DO NOT OIL a garand, you GREASE it.
try Lubriplate from Brownells.
that 11 oz can would last you til doomsday.
April 29, 2008, 19:44
I have a 7.62 NATO bbl Winchester from the CMP http://www.odcmp.com several years ago. It is missing the 7.62x51 barrel sleeve & came with the little internal plastic clip block. The barrel gauges (.30-06) 1.5 TE & 1 M & yes it is almost all Winchester. Somehow, I seemed to have stocked up on more .30cal than I realized.
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