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habe
March 19, 2008, 11:02
I plan on SBR'ing an AR into an M&P 15T clone but with a 14.5" barrel. Some of the parts places will not sell you a SBR kit until you provide proof of approved SBR paperwork from the BATFE.

Is it illegal to have a 14.5 inch barrel in your possesion if you have a receiver, even though not assembled, or other AR's also in your possesion or, are the dealers just CYA'ing themselves?

habe

jaykden
March 19, 2008, 11:42
i'd be careful in this area.

if you have a title 1 AR reciever, and a short upper, it would be considered an unregistered SBR.


now, most places won't sell you a shorty upper till you provide proof of registration anyway, although the wait does take a month or 2 to get your stamp back from ATF and it would be a bugger to have to wait ANOTHER X amount of days to get the upper.

its the best way though.


i guess its like the ruling that you can't have M16 parts in the same place as an AR


one thing i want to know, is what about when you have a registered SBR and other AR15's? uppers can swap in seconds, i wonder what the legalities are on that? just thinkin out loud here....

M2MG
March 19, 2008, 17:28
Originally posted by jaykden
i'd be careful in this area.

if you have a title 1 AR reciever, and a short upper, it would be considered an unregistered SBR.


now, most places won't sell you a shorty upper till you provide proof of registration anyway, although the wait does take a month or 2 to get your stamp back from ATF and it would be a bugger to have to wait ANOTHER X amount of days to get the upper.

its the best way though.


i guess its like the ruling that you can't have M16 parts in the same place as an AR


one thing i want to know, is what about when you have a registered SBR and other AR15's? uppers can swap in seconds, i wonder what the legalities are on that? just thinkin out loud here....

You answered your own question, one short upper per registered SBR. More than that AND an unregistered reciever puts you into what's called "constructive possession".

habe
March 19, 2008, 17:45
Originally posted by jaykden
i'd be careful in this area.

if you have a title 1 AR reciever, and a short upper, it would be considered an unregistered SBR.

I would not chance having both a title I receiver and a barrel but, I thought I'd ask the question. Unlike letters that are easy to find that were issued by the ATF that deal with AR-15's and M-16 parts, I could not find a letter or other info that deals with this issue.

now, most places won't sell you a shorty upper till you provide proof of registration anyway, although the wait does take a month or 2 to get your stamp back from ATF and it would be a bugger to have to wait ANOTHER X amount of days to get the upper.

its the best way though.


i guess its like the ruling that you can't have M16 parts in the same place as an AR


one thing i want to know, is what about when you have a registered SBR and other AR15's? uppers can swap in seconds, i wonder what the legalities are on that? just thinkin out loud here....

Your question/thoughts opens up a whole bunch of other possible questions. What about the AR parts guys you see at gun shows that sell 14.5" barrels and M-16 parts? I know some of them are Type 1 FFL's. I would find it hard to believe that none of them have a Title I AR or two at home.

H2U
March 19, 2008, 22:46
Correct me if I'm wrong (PLEASE!), but I've been told I may have an SBR upper and an unregistered receiver- as long as they aren't in the same location (such as having the receiver in the safe at home and keeping the upper at work at a relatives home ). This is while you are waiting to get the paperwork back from BATFE. I personally don't feel comfortable doing that-but I was told it was legal.

jaykden
March 20, 2008, 01:28
i would say you are all right, although an eager agent may get all hot and bothered over it.

but i highly doubt it.

kycrawler
March 20, 2008, 14:31
just order the upper for your pistol nothing at all wrong with a 14.5 inch barreled ar 15 pistol and the parts are legal to own the fact that your may some day use the upper on a rifle doesnt matter

Azrial
March 20, 2008, 15:37
Originally posted by kycrawler
just order the upper for your pistol nothing at all wrong with a 14.5 inch barreled ar 15 pistol and the parts are legal to own the fact that your may some day use the upper on a rifle doesnt matter

Yep, there is no problem having a short barreled upper. Ever consider folks with AR pistols?

para45haldin
April 03, 2008, 06:16
do not have in your possesion a short upper and a ar-15, the atf has and will prosacute anyone. i read a articale about them getting a police officer jail time for possesion of both, and he has not been the only one. you might want to check out this site.
http://www.subguns.com/laws/laws.htm
:)

Lee Carpentieri
April 25, 2008, 13:21
Their used to be a company called Sendra back in the 1980's and one day an Batf agent came in to do a inspection and he witnessed a AR-15 with a 11 1/2 inch commando upper on it. When the inspection was completed the agent came back about a week later and arrested the owner due to the fact an employee who didn't know any better had put the commando upper on the lower and it wasn't registered as an SBR and the agent picked up on it during the inspection. The company was later reformed and put in the wifes name and called Nesard, But didn't last long after that. I used to sell full-auto parts and short barreled Colt uppers at gun shows and to FFL'S and manufactures, But have a form 4 weapon to cover the parts I sell for each different manufacture and according to Batfe can do so legally but I'm held under the same law as an FFL. You don't have paperwork on hand when trying to purchase the under 16 inch barrel or auto parts I won't sell to anybody either including LEO officers unless they have a purchase letter from their agency and are listed as a procurement officer/agent and so stated on the letter as such. Alot of the companies you see advertize in trade magazines don't have FFL'S but don't have all the parts needed for a F/A weapon like an M16, But are still held under federal law as an FFL for sales of restricted parts.

jaykden
April 25, 2008, 14:15
ok, what about this?

i have an 11.5" upper on a registered SBR and a flattop 11.5" upper on the way.


they are M1S uppers and even though my SBR is registered, i ordered the 11.5" upper designated as a "pistol upper". there was no difference in the item, just how it was worded.

i ordered te second 11.5" pistol upper with the flattop this week.

why did i do that? because model1 has SBR and M16 parts listed as restricted and you need to call them. since the 11.5" commando upper and the 11.5" pistol upper are the same, it was just easier to order it as a pistol. saved me the hassle of sending them copies of my form 1


OTOH, i noticed that M&A parts will ship SBR or M16 parts, as they say its up to the buyer to know the laws. i have heard issues with them and because of their shipping policies, i won't order through them.

Lee Carpentieri
April 26, 2008, 02:47
I would've asked them before buying another complete upper what gas port size the barrel has for the pistol upper,
Commercial gas ports size for 11.5 inch barrels is around 0.74, Colt XM177-E2 is .067 and Colts carbine 11.5 inch barrel is .072. Remember a pistol upper weapon usally has a different/shorter recoil buffer system that is shorter than a standard carbine/commando system. It would have been cheaper to buy a flat top upper and change the barrel over to it.

jaykden
April 26, 2008, 14:53
oooo, i never thought about that.


well, i haven't had any issues with the current 11.5" pistol upper. it has always functioned flawlessly, even with wolf.


so, would the gas port be smaller or larger when built as a pistol bbl?


the only thing different with the complete upper i'm getting is the A3 upper. if the barrel is the same as the one i have, and the gas port is the same, then it should work fine. at least thats what i'm crossing my fingers about.