Problems with early 80's IMI 7.62NATO?

[LarryLove]

Hi all, I've got a good lead on 1000rds of IMI surplus dated 8/80, M80 match bullet, 147 grain. Store is asking $149 for 1000 rds. Sounds too good. The store has a rep for being less than virtuous and really overcharges for everything, so when I see a great deal from them I wonder...

I did some research and some have said that several lots of early 80's Israeli surplus got left in the desert for several years and that this ammo may be full of problems.

Does anyone know if these rumors are true? And has anyone used any quantity of early 80's IMI? What was your experience with this ammo?

[gunplumber]

I bought a couple case of 80s TZ ammo from paragon. At least 3% failure to fire, and about 10% of what did had flame cut gashes down the side of the case.

I also got some from cole distributing with same results. boxes were sealed, but content appeared to have water damage. Discolored cases (Lippman blamed UPS and the man on the moon, and cussed out anyone that questioned the history of the lot).

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/webpictures/imiammo.jpg

I have been happy with malaysian (not worth delinking again) RG, and Portuguese.


------------------
T. Mark "Gunplumber" Graham
gunplumber@arizonaresponsesystems.com
Arizona Response Systems
5501 North 7th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85013
623-873-1410 http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com

[This message has been edited by gunplumber (edited December 22, 2000).]

[EOE]

LarryLove....
Watch out for any "TZ 80" headstamped ammo.
I bought some a year or two ago and had the same experience as Gunplumber. Some cases split from the primer pocket to over half way up the case. One instance blew the mag contents out the bottom all over the ground.
Further study seemed to indicate that the suspect rounds had a dull yellow color that was different from the rest of the ammmo. I still have embedded powder in my hide. Be careful.

[308_Nut]

I bought a sealed can of the TZ stamped IMI (80) over a year ago from AIM surplus. I have had not problems with my ammunition and have had very good accuracy out of my rifle with it. I've shot over 200 rounds of it.

I have heard that Paragon is bad news. It would not surprise me if somebody got some bad merchandise from them.

As far as my TZ stamped IMI is concerned, I couldn't be any happier.

[Gatman762]

Yes I had the same problem as Gunplumber also split cases and cracked web on 10% of the rounds, but the price was right. Paragon in my experiance sold a lot of that ammo. I shot it in a Chrome lined M-14 barrel and never had a problem but some times when a round splits there is smoke in the breach area amd you know it was a bad case. I have also had the same problems with 223 from the desert. (storage problems or exposure to ammonia) like ammonia polishing compounds may cause this kind of problem as well. The best ammo deal I ever got from paragon was the $99 1000 rds for Buligarian Steel case 100% sure fire, only a few rounds were rusty on the case but very few. Thats why they call it surplus. GM

- Gun control is not about guns; it’s about control.
-Guns only have two enemies: Rust and politicians.

[Yo Quiero FAL]

Derek, George or Mark, you guys must use several thousand rounds of ammo per year test firing rifles you build, right?

For the benefit of us FALers, could you or anyone tell us which ammo (.308) has consistently given good results, year to year, lot to lot, and you can always count on it performing correctly?

[Uncle Buck]

I also had a bad experience with new in the box TZ80 ammo. I had a case head split in about 1 in 40. Most were small and would be hard to see if you didn't notice the smoke coming out of the action. One split clear across the case head from the primer pocket to 1/4 inch up the side. It blew the floor plate out of the mag and dumped its contents on the ground. This is definitely defective ammo and there is way too much good stuff available right now (RG, Malaysian, S. African) for cheap to take any chances on TZ80.
UB

[308_Nut]

Where did you folks acquire your TZ80 headstamped ammo?

I've not seen any of the aforementioned abnormalities with the lot I've got. I have inspected the cases upon cleanup at the range since I retain my brass and have found no separation.

Surely, I'm not the only one who got a good lot of this stuff? Anybody else out there?

[LarryLove]

Thanks for the info everyone, and special thanks to GP for that picture. I will certainly pass on this deal, and I'm glad I decided to ask for advice first.

I'm looking for a case of quality 7.62NATO to lay away in the back of the closet and forget about - something that will always be around if I need it. Hirtenberger or RG seems to be the way to go for that purpose.

[Billybob]

Same problem as already stated with TZ80 headstamps. I got a case of TZ ammo, mixed from 79 to 83 headstamps. All of the case failures I experienced were with 80 headstamps. Had one blow the bottom out of the mag on my M1A when my son was shooting it. The only cases that have split were 80 headstamps. Must have had bad heat treatment or something. Also in the whole case, I have had a 10% failure rate or so. Definitely not well taken care of ammo. Check it out good before you buy.
Billybob