View Full Version : Given the Choice......
September 22, 2001, 00:13
What would you go for. Hert, Rad Green, PMP or Port? All seem to be about the same $
September 22, 2001, 00:20
Hirt because it is reloadable. Think I am about to buy some right now from AIM.
September 22, 2001, 03:35
For Berdan: Portuguese.
For Boxer: Hirtenberger
Both have minimal FPS/velocity deviation, and you can readily pull the bullets & substitute same weight
hunting bullets. The Portuguese is best for very long-term storage.
Upside Down: It isn't just the packaging. It's Berdan, which historically has a longer storage life than Boxer-primed. Plus Berdan has two flash holes, insuring ignition. The real advantage is that Portuguese has
military waterproof sealant applied to the bullet & primer. The only thing that could have an effect on it is storage temps. You control that.
[ September 23, 2001: Message edited by: usmc326 ]
Upside Down @ 100 MPH
September 22, 2001, 17:31
Why is the Port better suited for long term storage....the way it's packaged?
September 22, 2001, 19:24
DC: It may be of interest to you to note that "reloadable" means different things to different people. Hirt IS reloadable, but requires some extra work to load.
You may have to drill out the flash holes to .081" or so after depriming; the holes are small and tend to pull out the decapping pins on some dies. The necks aren't very uniform in thickness, but most are acceptable. You'll have to ream or swage the primer pockets before inserting new primers. Mine required trimming after the first firing. This all takes time. Not to say that Hirt is a bad deal, and at least you KNOW what it was fired in the first time.
Some of the once-fired US mil brass is good, IF you are careful to check the headspace requirement of YOUR rifle and size it accordingly, being careful not to oversize. Just a little something to consider.
September 23, 2001, 00:02
Thanks SidL. Good info to remember. Never had to enalrge flash holes, but I've done the rest before. Still, I think I'll just hang on to the brass and get back into reloading on some other brass.
September 23, 2001, 02:21
The Undersized Flash hole in Boxer Military ammo...part of the UN disarmament push..it is showing up in many makes of Mil ammo, especially in 5,56 and 7,62 Nato..The Singaporeans and malaysians started using this technique some twenty years ago, when they switched from berdan 5,56 to Boxer 5,56.
And Hirtenberg has been using this on 7,62 Blanks since the 1980s (Full Brass case).
It has one drawback, however, the ammo is costlier to make(smaller punches break more easily) and it is less reliable in ignition ( or more erratic...there is such a thing as "Optimum" flash hole size for any particular cartridge.)
As to the relative merits of Berdan vs Boxer, Berdan is more ignition reliable for longer, all other things being equal, and more economical to produce(both cases, and more importantly, primers...there is Not that pesky "anvil" to be pressed into the cup at just the right depth, and just the right pressure, etc.
Also, I have found, in general terms, that the Berdan primer will ignite under very marginal firing pin impact conditions (in older guns, eg breech loading Conversions with angled Firing Pins ;) Using modern made Antique brass with Boxer primers is usually a failure... pin does not strike at the right place to ignite the pellet;in a Berdan case, where ever the pin comes from, it ignites.
That aside, I would stay with FNM for best practice ammo making; Learn to berdan reload...I did 40 years ago, and have loaded close to half a Million cartridges(both Berdan and Boxer, mostly berdan) for ball and Now, (last 15 years) Movie blank use.
But then I am Biased...I started with Berdan cases ( .303 British).
regards, Doc AV :D
September 24, 2001, 15:02
Doc AV: Thanks for that information! I've often wondered about the smaller flash holes, and in my ignorance attributed it to poor quality control, but that didn't really make much sense because it is very uniform ammo (at least my batch of Hirt is).
Just out of curiosity, since I don't plan to reload berdan brass, do you use a tool like the one RCBS makes or the hydraulic method or what? Where do you get your primers? Since the "anvil" is in the case and wouldn't "give" like the ones in Boxer primers, should special care be taken when using our "home type" reloading tools for seating the primer?
Thanks again for the very informative post! Looking forward to more of the same. Sid
September 24, 2001, 18:19
Doc AV....There are a lot of us that need to learn to reload berdan-primed cases. How about a post on the ins and outs, tools, technique. Sure would be nice not to have to reinvent the wheel.
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