Ammo storage (long-term)?

[Hambone_22345]

I don't really feel comfortable storing large quantities of ammo in my safe with my babies. It's a fire-rated Ft. Knox built into the wall with extra insulation, but I just don't trust the ammo in there with my guns. I have an old upright freezer that I was considering putting out in my shop to use for ammo storage. It is lockable. It would seal up tight to keep out moisture. It should moderate the temperature variations that we experience here in Southern LA (Lower Alabama). The ammo would be stored in GI ammo cans inside the freezer. Does anyone else have any experience with outside storage of ammo? Is it going to go bad in the warmer temperatures and high humidity? Help please! :D

[ August 10, 2001: Message edited by: EMDII ]

[Kevin K]

Someone on this board once stated the rule of thumb of ammo storage the best way I have ever heard. Store ammo in an enviornment that you would be comfortable in. So if you think you would be nice and comfey in the freezer go ahead. ;)

[Hambone_22345]

Maybe I should clarify myself. The freezer doesn't work. It is just a nice, tightly sealed container (like a GI ammo box) that is also heavily insulated to avoid quick temperature variations.

Maybe I'll put it out there without anything in it for a few days and check the temp to see how hot and cold it gets. We see 100 degrees F here in the summer and 85% relative humidity, so it'll probably be a "little uncomfortable" in there for me! ;)

[Azalin]

Moisture and high temperatures are what will cause your ammo to lose velocity or simply be a dud round. As you stated go and find out the high temperatures for the area you will be keeping the ammo in. If it is over 85-90 degrees I would not suggest storing it there for a long period of time.

The Azalin

[W.E.G.]

The only problem I see with your plan is that the freezer is not BIG enough!

[Wadman]

As far as moisture goes, I've circumvented the whole dessicant pack route by vacuum sealing all my loose boxes. How much ammo were you storing in your safe? For that matter, how big is your safe? I know my safe won't hold all the ammo I've got (although it might if I take out the guns and the shelves).

[Hambone_22345]

I have a 66x36 Fort Knox fire lined safe rated at 1680 degrees for 90 minutes with the "Reinforced Fire Door." Like I said, it's built into a corner, with 5/8" fire code sheetrock and 6" batt insulation around the back, top, and sides. One side is next to the chimney and the other side is an outside wall; both would be considered "cool walls" in a fire. The only thing you can see is the door, and it's the only thing that would really take any heat in a fire. It has the half-and-half interior with storage for 22 (? I think) guns on one side and shelves on the other. I have the bottom right pretty full of ammo on stripper clips in GI cans. The next shelf up has several boxes of various ammo along with several loaded magazines for some of my AR's, FAL's, .22's, pistols, etc.
However, I have about 1000 rds of 7.62 NATO, 1000 rds. of 5.56 NATO, 500 rds. of .45 ACP, 3000 rds. of .22 LR, 400 rds. of .38 Spl., several pounds of powder, some primers, some bullets, and a few other odds and ends in ammo cans in my closet that I would like to store somewhere else. There's definitely not room in the safe, and I really don't feel good about having ANY ammo in the safe with all of my goodies. I'd hate to go to all the trouble I've gone to and incinerate my guns IN THE SAFE in a house fire. :(
I don't think my wife will let me put the old freezer in the closet. And I probably won't be air-conditioning my shop any time soon. I have heard of people storing ammo and powder in their garages before. Also some store it in their basement, although the temperature variations in the basement wouldn't be bad, just the humidity.
Oh well, I didn't think it was a great idea, I was just wishing.
I would LIKE to have another safe just for ammo and powder, but I'd rather spend that money on more GUNS AND AMMO!!! :p

Thanks for the help. Maybe I'll figure something else out. Maybe my wife will let me put the "old" freezer in the pantry right next to the "new" freezer! :eek:

[ June 14, 2001: Message edited by: Hambone_22345 ]

[Talyn]

Keep it cool, dark and dry. My opinions and experiences of course.

Talyn

[Batman]

I have been storing many cases of all kinds of ammo for many years in my basement. I bought a steel cabinet at a garage sale and I put a lock on it. The basement is cool and relatively dry. Here in Michigan we can get very warm days with high humidity. the basement is dehumidified and stays relatively stable. You might also consider buying your ammo in the sealed battle packs. As far as it being a hazzard, well, I have never heard ammo of amy type having spontanious combustion capabilities. Save for black powder.

[BUFF]

Steel ammo cans have a rubber seal and are moisture-tight if in good shape. Put the ammo in them on a dry day, keep it in moderate temperatures and you have it knocked.

In Utah, we worry more about the lack of humidity. A basement here is a good place to store it.

If your house burns, losing 5,000 rounds of milsurp will be the least of your problems!

[dan]

Ammo could stores up well in a G.I.ammo can. If you what to keep your ammo in good condition seal it in vaccum pack your ammo. :)

[Jen]

I wish I could remember where I saw these pictures, but there was some ordnance that blew up on an Army Base, they had after the fact investigation pictures including some of various ammo cans, 9mm and .223 that had been thru the extreme heat. The 9mm went off inside the ammo can but did not penetrate, the ammo can just kind of bulged. Was kind of neat looking. The .223 had some that left the container but it appeared that most of the rounds didn't penetrate. Again, this was one highly bulged out ammo can, but most of the ammo was still inside save the few rounds that did escape.

Being in Houston we have VERY high humidity, this combined with wanting to make sure no firemen are injured in the event of a fire means that I put my ammo in GI ammo cans with some dessicant packs to help with the humidty problems.

If you think your 'freezer' will help keep the ammo at a good temperature then you should be ok putting your ammo in there with some dessicant for good measure. You might also want to seal your ammo in GI ammo cans as they do have a rubber seal on them that will help keep out moisture.

[ June 07, 2001: Message edited by: Jen ]

[Kevin K]

Can you turn the freezer on? Cold won't hurt & it will sure stay dry.

[Hambone_22345]

Originally posted by Kevin K:
<STRONG>Can you turn the freezer on? Cold won't hurt & it will sure stay dry.</STRONG>


Nope. That's why I got a new one. The old one doesn't work.
I've pretty much got to get this stuff somewhere else. It's piling up pretty good! :D
Jen,
It's all in GI cans, so I guess I'm OK there. I just was wondering if the freezer was a good place to store it outside. I wouldn't feel good about sticking it in my shop without insulating it from the heat somehow. Our weather here is probably comparable to yours in Houston. I can nearly spit to Florida, so we're pretty humid most of the year. The GI cans and dessicant will take care of that. It's the heat I'm worried about. I could put most of it in my safe if I tried, but I worry about a fire igniting it and incinerating my precious FAL's and AR's and stuff. We live WAY OUT in the country, so the volunteer fire dept. will take a little while to get here. It may be a while before any water gets put on a fire, if we were to have one. I guess I'm more concerned because our house burned down in 1981 and we lost everything. However, the freezer was intact, and the stuff inside was just thawed, not burned. Hence the idea of storing ammo in there. Just trying to "cover all bases."
Thanks for the replies. Keep 'em coming.


BTW, anyone know the average temp of a house fire?

Anyone know the "cookoff" temp for ammo?

[Offctr]

I managed to pick up a file cabinet/document safe from the air force as Mil surplus It looks like a regular 1950s or 60s file cabinet but the sides top and bottom as well as the drawer faces are lined with a concrete looking substance that probably has some kind of asbestos in it (but as long as it remains bonded -not shedding dust it is ok)
anyway for ammo storage especially in ammo cans it is alright cause it allows me to keep
rifle ,pistol and component ammo separated and secured ( it also keeps the uninitated from getting upset -- if they knew how much ammo they were standing next they would probably move --- from the neighborhood !)in a rather innoucous looking cabinet.
If you can find one pick one up ---- some that I saw had various ratings including radiation restiance markings Like I said if you can find one pick one up usually go ignored at Mil base auctions etc keep in mind that most of the everyday stuff the mil bought during the cold war era was some top notch stuff like the desks they used to buy....bulletproof

[farranger]

Put the ammo in the cans and they can go very nicely in the safe. Our house burn't to the ground right to ashes, they put premium gasoline in the fuel oil tank, if you think that doessn't make a pretty fire try it some time. They shouldn't go off in the safe at any temperature conceivable(sp) inside the safe. An ammo can inside another ammo can protected paper, ammo and a bunch of other things. (different cans) The 30 and 30 cal cans inside the bigger 20mm or 25mm cans gives lots of protection. Personal experience, not recommended for duplication. Kyle

[Hambone_22345]

Thanks Kyle. That's the kind of firs-hand info I really needed.
Our house was destroyed by fire in 1981. Nothing left but the chimney. I know how you feel.

BTW, how much ability did the fire dept. have in your case, and how long before they got there?

We live WAY OUT in the country. The nearest VOLUNTEER fire dept is over 5 miles away, and their response time is relatively long since they have to get the page, get to the truck, and then drive to the fire. 30 minutes would be a good response time.
When our house burned in 1981, two depts. responded, and they almost had it out and ran out of water. (No fire hydrants in our area. They've since bought a large tanker to carry water with to locations without fire plugs.) It just caught back up and burned to the ground. We lost everything.
I think the response time and capability of the local fire dept. should weigh heavily on anyones' safe purchasing decisions. It was my MAIN concern, hence the "extra" fire protection I added to my installation.

Thanks for the help. I think I'll build a "insulated ammo storage compartment" in the lower right section of my safe, line it with fire-rated 5/8" sheetrock, and stack some of that ammo in there, and put the rest in the freezer in the shop. Should be good enough to hold out until the fire dept. gets there. I hope it NEVER happens.

BTW, did you get any relief out of the folks who put the wrong fuel in your tank? Bet you had them by the "nads.!" I would if they burned my house down like that! :(

[ June 14, 2001: Message edited by: Hambone_22345 ]

[UrielUtter]

Ouch and double ouch.
Hambone, what did your safe run you?

[Hambone_22345]

About $1800 shipped from www.agenglish.com (http://www.agenglish.com)

I got the powder paint instead of the high gloss which saved me about $300, and spent the extra on the "Reinforced Fire Door" option, pistol racks on the door, and brass hardware w/ 3-spoke door bolt crank. The same safe in the glossy paint was about $2200. I decided I could look at the "gunmetal gray" stuff for that kind of money! I may paint it to match my bedroom later.

I got this thing delivered to my work so we could unload it with a forklift. We put it on the scales, and it weighed 1148 lbs. including the pallet. I'd hate to think what it weighs with all of the stuff that's in it now!!! I don't think anyone's going to turn it over and rip out the back, LOL.

[BUFF]

Bolt it to the floor and wall anyway- you would be surprised what I have seen burglars do in the last 20 years...

[Hambone_22345]

BUFF, it is. 5/8 x 8" LAG BOLTS into the floor joists and wall framing!!! Judging by the way I had to torque on them to get them all the way in, they're not giving up any time soon! :D :D :D

[farranger]

Actually, we found out the next spring about the gasoline when my sister fueled our diesel tractor with the fuel oil and the tractor quit and my dad had it analyzed and it was prem. gas. Before that, winter 1980 in wyoming real cold, and we were snowed in so when the stuck snow plow got cleared out by another plow we called and had them bring fuel oil, cept we got gas. Before spring they actually accused my father of arson, but they didn't know that my mother's cousin was one of the top arson investigators in the country and it took a bit but after their stupid accusations the cousin made them back down. Our fire dept about 12 miles away. They did good, but the huge amount of accelerants, gasoline was a bummer.

[usmc326]

High temps kill ammo. So you either have to put the freezer in a hole, like a root cellar or mechanics' pit,
or cool that non-working freezer some way.
The cheap way: put a gallon jug of frozen water in there in a non-metal dish to contain the condensation, and monitor the temp & time the jug lasts.
Easier way: buy a used, or scratch & dent "dorm" refrigerator,about 2'x2'x2' at a Best Buy or Circuit City
for $50-$90. I got one new, that was returned for $45 for the lake. You could install it in or under the insulated freezer, removing the door, but I'd get double use out of it. I'd keep pop & beer in it, and cut a hole in it and the freezer and connect them with some flexible insulated AC duct pipe. By keeping the little refrig full it won't have to cool/run as much. Keep a thermometer in the freezer to monitor the temp. RV/Camp outlets carry the small refrig & thermometers too. Caulk around the pipe ends for an airtight seal.

[10xs]

usmc326

We talking ammo storage or beer storage.

That's how I keep my beer cool.

Could not resist the reponse.
:D

[ June 15, 2001: Message edited by: 10xs ]

[usmc326]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 10xs:
[QB]usmc326

We talking ammo storage or beer storage.

That's how I keep my beer cool.

BOTH...dual purpose!! Perfect for those hot climates, plus if you put a padlock on the refrig it's YOUR stash,
not the wife's. Ever notice how they won't hesitate to take the last one,
but won't say anything? :)

[10xs]

I hear that..that's were my hot day stash is going :eek:

[ June 15, 2001: Message edited by: 10xs ]