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View Full Version : Receivers: IMBEL gear (GL) vs non-gear logo (NGL)


Heisler
September 26, 2000, 22:56
I hear comments about getting a gear logo Imbel receiver. I have seen some Imbel receivers with no logo. Once I heard there is no difference. Is that true?? Thanks.

DK
September 26, 2000, 23:01
There is no difference in quality. They are both made the same. The 'gear' logo is just that. All it is is the Imbel logo inside a circular 'gear'.

DK

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gates
September 26, 2000, 23:39
only an issue if you try to sell it! have one of our smiths build it (they mark their guns) and the problem goes away (the problem is that non gear recvrs are cai and guilt by assn is pretty strong in the secondary mkt!)

if you plan on keeping it forever have fun one is as good as another.

aj

Hootbro
September 27, 2000, 00:29
Originally posted by gates:
(the problem is that non gear recvrs are cai and guilt by assn is pretty strong in the secondary mkt!)
aj


Not all non gear logo Imbels are CAI. I have a Pars Intl import with out the gear logo. I have also seen two other importers with out the gear logo also. I will agree with you on the guilt by association for CAI market Imbels, even Hesse marked Imbels. I pick up a new Imbel next week from my dealer, and do not really know what I will receive for markings.


Hootbro


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Mike in GA
September 27, 2000, 07:06
I also have "No Gear" Imbels and also a Gear Imbel - after close comparison, I'd say the real difference is about $50.00

Anyway, you can't see any of the markings when you've got the barrel downrange!

FALshot
September 27, 2000, 08:03
Gates hit the nail on the head! There is no difference in quality at all. To "Mike in GA." I agree, the difference is about $50.00.
BUT, if you ever intend to sell it, the first thing anyone who knows FALs/Kit rifles will notice is the "CAI" logo! Then, the difference in the two Imbel receivers, will be about $400 to $500!! (A rough estimate)
What can I say, it's a testament to the reputation for quality that Century has worked so hard to earn!

Charlie14
September 27, 2000, 08:22
OK, just when I thought I had everything figured out...Let me get this straight. It's everybodys belief that:

1) A gear logo on the upper reciever indicates that the rifle was NOT assembled by CAI, and;

2) That if the rifle was assembled by CAI the Imbel upper reciever will not only not have the gear logo, but also will have CAI stamped on the upper.

Is this right?

FALshot
September 27, 2000, 09:30
Of the CAI FALs I've seen, they say they are made by Imbel, (but lacked the gear logo) and they also have "CAI" on them as well. Hence, if given the choice, we would all choose to have a "Gear logo" Imbel receiver, rather than a Imbel receiver, (that is of the same high quality) that lacks the "Gear logo", and has the world famous "CAI" stamp on it.
Several arms retailers has purchased CAI's inventory of Imbel receivers, (that CAI had imported) and are now selling them. As I'm sure you've picked up on, people may build them up and have a top notch FAL, but since it has the "CAI" on it, there are those who would doubt the quality as they would assume it to be a CAI $500.00 FAL, rather than a $900. to $1100. FAL put together with care and choice parts. So for resale, you MIGHT have a little more trouble dumping it, than you would with one of George Gouger's Rifles, or GP's.

Charlie14
September 27, 2000, 09:52
OK FAL, but here's where it gets strange, I'm staring, right now, at a gear logo Imbel reciever, imported by by Pacific Armament Corperation, with a small marking by the mag well saying "assembed by CAI," on what appears to be a top shelf StG kit including barrel. Now I would think this is a CAI rifle, but the fit and finish are great. What am I looking at? Did somebody cob this together after recieving a bad CAI FAL? Or did somebody at CAI actually know what they were doing once upon a time?

Oh, just to complicate matters, the pistol grip, dust cover, and various other sundry parts are DSA...Charlie14 the Confused.

[This message has been edited by Charlie14 (edited September 27, 2000).]

FALshot
September 27, 2000, 10:59
Well, you're a good case in point Charlie. It seems to me that speculation is all that is left for me, or anyone as to the origin of your rifle. If someone has gone to the trouble of installing DSA U.S. made parts on it, that seems like a good sign.
I hate to be put in the position of defending CAI as I have been a vocal critic of them, but not all of them are crap. It just seems like it it a "Crap shoot" when it comes to their rifles. It's well known how, and it what environment they're assembled. knowing that, I am frankly surprised no one has been seriously injured by one of them.
Bottom line?
It's hard to say, but I would not give the same amount for a CAI marked receiver, as one not marked CAI, if for no other reason that it will leave doubt as to the origin of it if, and when I want to sell it. On the other hand, my FALs would be among the last posessions I would sell, if it all went to hell in a hand basket for me.

rifleman
September 27, 2000, 12:08
I have seen several CAI Imbels without the gear. One guy at my range had one with a gear and I asked him who built it for him he said "nobody, this is how I bought it from AIM Surplus for $529." My CAI from AIM is an Imbel w/o gear for $529. Also, his bolt hold open had been ground off and he asked me if my bolt stayed open "yep I said" "I'd rather the bolt hold open worked than have the gear any day" http://www.fnfal.com/forums/smile.gif

Charlie14
September 27, 2000, 12:24
Rifleman, yup, the bolt hold open works fine too...I don't know the history on this thing. Maybe the guy who bought it got lucky, maybe he had somebody tweak it for him...It's a strange mix.

Lawrence/Entreprise
September 27, 2000, 12:39
There is no difference between the gear and non gear logo Imbel receiver. We import the Imbel receiver without the gear logo. You can see what both looks like on our website at http://www.entreprise.com

Originally posted by Heisler:
I hear comments about getting a gear logo Imbel receiver. I have seen some Imbel receivers with no logo. Once I heard there is no difference. Is that true?? Thanks.

Shazbat
September 27, 2000, 12:59
Ah yes Lawrence, but yours are not marked CAI. They've been marked with your companies name - which is why I'm the proud owner of two Imbel recievers marked 'Entreprise Arms' http://www.fnfal.com/forums/smile.gif

twodog
September 27, 2000, 15:26
FALshot,
I bought a CAI R1A1 with a gear logo IMBEL receiver. Assembled by CAI is faintly stamped on mag well above PAC #. Rifle was in nice shape and shoots great! I'm building one with an Enterprise receiver which will mean more to me since I put it together with my own hands - well at least I'm gonna try to put it together. CAI will be my shooter, woods rifle.

VonCroy27
November 12, 2000, 07:43
I see posts about IMBEL receivers, and they make sure to say it has the "gear logo". What, if any, difference is there between those and the ones without?

[ August 07, 2001: Message edited by: EMDII ]

faustus
November 15, 2000, 22:54
Originally posted by D. Lehrman:
My theory is this recommendation all started with those that sought out the Gear logo ... as an assurance that they weren't going to get one that was Century marked - which would in some eyes lower the value of the completed piece or add confusion on resale.

Having just received a couple Century marked receivers from Federal, I can understand this. I knew they would be Century-marked, non-Gear, and Federal came through just fine with them, but now that I have them the cheesy dot matrix style "engraving" of the serial and importer info, plus the obnoxious "R1A1 Sporter Receiver" wording and the CAI name are a bit nauseating. Of course, until now I hadn't even thought about my new guns being mistaken for crack whores by the semi-FAL literate masses. Doh! http://www.fnfal.com/forums/redface.gif

Thanks a lot D.! http://www.fnfal.com/forums/smile.gif

Mike in GA
November 15, 2000, 23:41
As someone who owns both the "Gear" and the "CAI" marked Imbel receivvers - let me assure you that you CANNOT see the difference while firing! However, the $50 to $75 dollar difference in price makes a difference in the amount of ammo that I can buy - which means more time firing, which means less time looking! Besides, If I should need a new liver, and have to sell my StG - I think the CGW stamp on the bottom of the receiver would trump the CAI on the side!

Cut through the BS - both are Imbel! ( The REAL bargain, though, are the Inch cut Imbel's that Federal Arms has - only $189 AND a free inch mag! )

Of course, any Imbel looks better with a Dan @ Vow US grip under it! Not only does it count as a US part - but 20% of the purchase price goes to keep the board afloat! So - you can feed the kitty and do yourself a favor!

Mike

W.E.G.
July 31, 2001, 12:40
moved to the FAQ

Bryan
July 31, 2001, 16:43
The logo is located on the rear right side of the receiver. For those who don't know the logo, you can find it on Dan's sporting goods site as well as many other pages. Here's the link to Dan's.

http://www.falparts.com/Default.asp

BTW it's the gear shaped logo with "Imbel" written in it... thus the "Imbel Gear logo" title

[ July 31, 2001: Message edited by: Bryan ]

EMDII
August 07, 2001, 14:57
NadaDamnThing, except cosmetics.

Like ordering chrome on your truck.

JJH
August 07, 2001, 19:45
In my collection, which is unfortunately for my wallet, growing, I have both examples and there is no difference except cosmetics. Both work as advertised. While the Gear Logo might be more saleable if you sell it, IF the buyer knows the difference, there is no practicable reason to choose one over the other other than saving money on the non-gear logo version.

Derby FALs
August 07, 2001, 23:19
My first FAL was a CAI Centurion 58. It has a Gear Logo Imbel receiver and nowhere does it say Century Arms. Very, very light struck CENTURION 58 above serial number. You really have to look to see it.