Technical- Night Sights: Tritium for FAL? (yes and no)

[JasonC]

I think tritium night sights made for the FAL would be AWESOME, but I cannot find any... Does anyone know if they are even made, and/or where I can get them.... Please let me know. Thanks

Jason C

[ August 10, 2001: Message edited by: EMDII ]

[NZ L1A1 Collector]

There is a Tritium foresight for the L1A1/C1A1 inch rifles, designed and developed by the British it consits of a replacement foresight and a double leaf rear sight. The front for day shooting the rear for night shooting (has a larger hole).

------------------
Kevin Adams
Rifle, 7.62 mm, L1A1 Collector & Researcher.
NEW ZEALAND

[EMDII]

I contacted a manufacturer who indicated tooling costs woudl exceed $40,000 to set up for FALs. I even sent representative samples of the metric sights. They declined.

The military-spec sights have gone through at least one half-life, maybe more, and will be VERY dim.

------------------
1*.....Train Like You Fight: Second Place is NOT an Option.

E.M. (Ted) Dannemiller II

[v188]

I don't know about FAL tritium sights, but I was looking at buying a Valmet recently. On their web site, they found a place that would "reload" the old trit sights for something like <$100. I believe the www site was:

http://valmet-weapons.com/msgboard.mv

I didn't buy the Valmet, but gained some interesting knowledge. You might see if their firm would/could trit our FAL sights.

LIFE IS GOOD!

[EMDII]

Thanks! Sent a note.

TED

[edp]

I'm looking for a set of nite sites
(tritium) for a metric FAL. if a full set
is not available I would
be happy with just a front.

I checked brownells and their trijicon
rifle site page does not list the FAL.

I know the Canadians used to issue a tritium
front site, but I don't think that an Inch
front site will fit a metric FAL correctly.

any thoughts or ideas?

[EMDII]

No.

I contacted PT. They indicated $40,000+ for tooling. I'm in the process of contacting another agency to see if they'll fab sights.

http://www.fnfal.com/forums/wink.gif

[cheif61]

Is it possible that the trijicon post sight from another type of rifle may be threaded to fit on a FAL.

[gunplumber]

inch pattern would be easy. Standard thread pitch on a straight shaft. Metric is another story. Getting the plate done looks pretty tough. But just for kicks, consider a handgun style blade night sight in the front. now have the rear portion extended so as to have some metal not touching the horizontal tritium tube. Then a tiny plunger with a "u" shape to coinside with the post diameter. A threaded hole in the side away from the tube, in line with the tube. insert plunger and lock in place against the front sight post with a set screw.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/webpictures/falh3.jpg

just a thought.

------------------
T. Mark "Gunplumber" Graham
gunplumber@arizonaresponsesystems.com
Arizona Response Systems
5501 North 7th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85013
623-873-1410 http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com

[cheif61]

It's possible that a manufacturer of the tubes that glow may sell them unmounted so we could drill holes and mount them ourselves. Does mepro, trijicon, and armeson each make their own or do they buy from a common supplier? Today I sent an email to Trijicon giving them the specs for the post in my SAE sight to see what they say. I didn't ask about their source of tubes.

[cheif61]

I found a source for sealed light sources by looking up Mepro on Netscape search and found where they were fined for problems a while back. It id'd the sources they used as Model PRH-800/G/200 from http://www.srbtechnologies.com/index_aircraft.htm is a the manfacturer. It appears they make these in many different sizes. I don't know about sales policies.
I sent them an e-mail requesting sales info on amounts and quantities.
I also sent off a request to FN industries asking for a source or manufacturer of the original night sights.
Still waiting for answers.
[This message has been edited by cheif61 (edited November 29, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by cheif61 (edited November 29, 2000).]

[chet]

Great thread! Would love to see a front post/rear peep "slash/dot/slash" setup, where each side of the peep would have a horizontal slash and the front post have a dot. Chief61, stay on it! Good work!
CHET

[JasonC]

Wow, I guess I am kind of "shocked" that no one make nights sights for the FAL... Hmm, I thought that with the popularity of the FAL there would be some out there... I am surprised one of the larger FAL manufacturers (DSArms) hasn't already cashed in on this idea....

JasonC

[timg953]

Originally posted by NZ L1A1 Collector:
There is a Tritium foresight for the L1A1/C1A1 inch rifles, designed and developed by the British it consits of a replacement foresight and a double leaf rear sight. The front for day shooting the rear for night shooting (has a larger hole).


I wondered about that sight. I have had 3 or 4 L1A1s and the one I currently own has the double appeture sight. None of the others had this type. Now if I could only find an oringinal tritium front.

[Chupacabra]

There ARE tritium night sights for the FAL! Trijicon makes them, Meprolight makes them, Armson makes them.
The models are:
Trijicon Reflex
Meprologht Mepor 21 Reflex
Armson OEG
Sorry--that's as close as you're gonna get to traditional style tritium night sights for the FAL.
But HEY! They're ALL better than the traditional style sights IMHO.

[cheif61]

I've contacted SRB technologies about their betalight source. This is the company that supplies Mepro. They responded that they can't sell raw lights sources to someone without a NRC or state license but that they will do custom mountings.
I don't know the prices yet as I'm in the process of making arrangements to send samples.
I have spare inch sight pins and still need
to find gas blocks and metric pins. If anyone has a trashed metric gas block, sight pin or inch gas block I could use them for samples. Email me about cost involved.
When I get back from work next month I will get these mailed off to SRB.
My work schedule makes this a extended project but if someone wants to run with it then I'll give you the information.
If I don't get back with you today then it will be around 4 January 2001. Thank You

[Noname]

Here's a company that does custom work. They've done a couple of handgun sights for me. Dots , bars , multi colors ,etc. INNOVATIVE WEAPONRY (817) 284-0099 The invoice is 2 years old so I don't know if number is good.

[Noname]

Yep they're still there go to http:www.ptnightsights.com/

[gunplumber]

problem with PT/Innovative Weaponry/MMC is the method of affixing their tubes to the metal (glue and plastic) sucks. The tubes come out with contact with any cleaning solvent including hot water. And they say "solents" such as hot water, void the warranty. I've also received several sights where the tubes had come out while still in the package.

So their much lower priceing than trijicon/tooltech or meprolight is hardly worth it.

Oh yeah - don't leave 'em on the dashboard in the summer - that will melt the glue too.



------------------
T. Mark "Gunplumber" Graham
gunplumber@arizonaresponsesystems.com
Arizona Response Systems
5501 North 7th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85013
623-873-1410 http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com

[NZ L1A1 Collector]

timg953:

Mark Campbell (in Canada) did have some Tritium front sights, they no longer glow but are 'new' sealed in the plastic for $15 do a search on his name in the marketplace forum. He might still have some left.......... he's a great guy to deal with.

------------------
Kevin Adams
Rifle, 7.62 mm, L1A1 Collector & Researcher.
NEW ZEALAND

[mp]

While we are on the subject and talking about sending out samples, how about trying to get the SUIT sights a Tritium pill?? I would think this would be even easier than creating a new front sight, but I want both anyways.....Shit that glows in the dark is cool..........

[W.E.G.]

btt for Eich1

[eodinert]

Get one of TNT's steel paratrooper rear sights that uses the M16A2 rear aperature...then replace the aperature with a night-sighted one.

Out here..
Doug

[Eich1]

Thanks for the info guys. gary.jeter I promis I will do a search before posting again!! Didnt even dawn on me untill just now!

[Drummer]

I talked to Trijicon a few months ago about tritium replacement for the SUIT, they said that normal reactivation costs $60, but that it would have to be done by a custom shop. The custom shop was ToolTech Gunsight, Inc. email: TGunsight@aol.com

I talked to them and they sent me back to Trijicon because they didn't have the right liscense. They said to talk to Myles Waterman at Trijicon about the reactivation. I didn't pursue it any further because I sent my SUIT back to DSA. But, they may be able to help with SUIT reactivation and tritium front posts. If interested in the phone number for Mr. Waterman, post here and i'll email it to you.

David

[Enquiring Minds]

TIMEOUT... All of a sudden I can't find a copy of the relevant S921/922/925 laws that are always posted around here, but are integral night sights one of the "evil" features on a POST-ban FAL, or not?... I fer-get. http://www.fnfal.com/forums/confused.gif

[W.E.G.]

Originally posted by Enquiring Minds:
are integral night sights one of the "evil" features on a POST-ban FAL, or not?

No.

Sights are not on any federal evil-features list...yet.

Some states do prohibit lasers though.

These are the federal evil features:
(1) Receivers
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

[Enquiring Minds]

Thanks gary, but what you're referring to is the '89 Import Ban issue. I probably corn-fuzed things by mentioning (erroneous?) legal sec. #'s, but what I MEANT to address was the '94 AW Ban--i.e. FHs, bayo lugs, GLs, pistol grips, high-caps, etc.

BTW, what's the latest on the jeter-WTF?

[mp]

EMDII

Please contact me about the night sight project. I found a compnay that is willing to do it, but I need help. Thanks.

[CSAcavalry]

Hope you men get this on the road.
Keep us all informed, this is one of the
first things I wanted on the FN as a scope on
a semi dont suit me.
CScav

[riffraff]

What ever happened with this thread? It just kinda leaves you hanging there. I hate endings like that.

[kotengu]

Yeah - does anybody have any updates?

[Shangrila]

Just a thought, Brownell's sells a photophosphoresent paint. Dip the tip in an carefully paint the rear sight and you are ready to roll. OR....... use TNT Armoury's para rear sight and get an AR rear tritium. Anybody tried modifying an AR front to fit? Just a couple of thoughts. IMHO :)

[banhalt]

Have you guys seen the Tapco S.U.I.T. LED ILLUMINATOR for $24.99
S.U.I.T. LED ILLUMINATOR $24.99 (http://www.tapco.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=OPT2479&variation=&aitem=6&mitem=21&back=yes)
I am a newbie but this does not look all that bad. Anyone have one or know if it is any good?
guess I need to do more reading and less posting: http://www.l1a1.com/cgi-bin/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000328
:o

[ November 10, 2001: Message edited by: banhalt ]

[Maine1]

I have been researching this topic for about a month. TNT has an adjustable rear sight that will take the tritium AR aperature- but I can't seem to get a response from them, and I have heard from other members of the board that it is a one man operation, high turn around time. Still, I think this is good for a rear, I like the click adjustments.
(hint-Thomas, I have cash, along with the aperature, just waiting for you to contact me...please.)

TnT also says they are fooling with filling and tapping a gas block for an Ar trit. front. I am about to try this myself. Seems to be a good idea

I also have another idea, one that someone with a little machinists expertise could try. Trijicon front sights have the tritium element mounted on a shaft that is inserted in a threaded sleeve, and then peened over. The sleeve screws into the front sight base.How about grinding a front sight post for the Fal off flush, then drilling a center hole to fit this shaft, and re-peening it? this seems pretty simple, but someone with more knowledge than I have should study the sight plane- I am not sure if it would be correct for good accuracy. But I think this would be a sweet setup with the TNT rear sight.The only snag I can think of is the detent for the top of the sight, but that could be worked out with a piece of flat spring stock.I will try this one, too when I can afford to posibly waste a good tritium front.Let's all get on this- anyone wants my help-they have it. I also think we coud get enough people together in a group purchase to make this worth someones while. I would buy at least four sets.By the way, anyone know the tap/die sizes for the metric front sight?

[VoceNoctum]

I was thinking of the target front sight, with the crosshairs. I wonder if you could knock out the crosshairs and weld in an AR front or something.

[falup]

How about fibre optic cross hairs w/ tritium in the middle?
Don't know if the fibre optic would be to coarse for precision but lowlight shooting would usually be close.
How bout a fibre post under tritium dot.
Would like to see(pardon the pun)something non battery for low light.If this was used w/ a fully adj rear the front wouldn't have to be adj..

[Maine1]

Here's an update. Today I tried the idea in my previous post about using a metric front sight to adapt an Ar trijicon trituim unit. It worked. I have not shot and zeroed the weapon, and this is a prototype, but this seems to be a viable method.

First, you have to get the center post from the AR sight out- it is split peened thru a washer- files right off.

Next- you take your FAL front sight, and grind off the post flush. This leaves you a pretty good center point for drilling.Measure the diameter of the shaft on the tritium element- mine was 3/32. Carefully drill (drillpress)down thru the sight, out the bottom of the threaded portion. This hole needs to be square, obviously, and centered. Now, the crutial thing is to see how much 'play' you have to work with. Screw the fron sight into the base, with the gas plug and plunger removed,and bottom it out. The shaft from the tritium must not hang down, interfering with the gas plug, and limiting the elevation adjustments. put the rod down thru, and see how much extra you have- mark it at the point where it is out of the way, yet still gives you some length to work with.

Back to the fal sight- remove a few threads by careful grinding or filing- this gives you room to attach a fastener- I used a temporary fix of a wrap of thread secured with glue, just to fit things up, The ideal thing would be to file a groove and use a proper sized "E'" ring or a snap ring.

Ok, but what about a detent for the top of the sight? I drilled a hole in the top of the sight to corespond to the notches in the tritium insert. I made a plunger- from a finish nail-to be inserted underneath the sight, riding on the sight 'click' ring- this way, you don't need an extra spring, and you still get a detent to turn the blade the right way. putting this together is a little tricky,but if you have gotten this far, you are up to it. I filed a groove in my front sight tool for the blade, this makes it easier.

Any thoughts, critisims, other ideas? Like I said, this was a first try, this is not as well constructed as a combat sight should be, and I am concerned about sight plane. I REAlly wish I had a TNT rear. Then I would be able to test it as a set.

Improvements?

1- right sized snap ring or washer W/stakingwould make me feel just as confident as I did with the original sight.
2- detent plunger of better materials,blued.

I will also try the gas block method.This method ruins a sight, so if you make a mistake, you eat the cost.If the gas block method is not succesful, at least you can slap the sight in the AR. I'll try to post some pictures. Any Ideas from the gunsmith crowd? I am open for suggestions.

[kotengu]

Sounds pretty good to me - do you have any pics? What's the shaft and thread size on an AR front sight vs the same on an L1A1 or STG?

[Gloftoe]

Update?

[diana1]

Hold your water! DSA is making them right now and will have them out this fall.Thay are finishing the front sight, rear is done but (not for sale yet).Thay shoud be out togther this fall. Jeff

[Gloftoe]

Cool! Any idea of what the rear sight is like? I have an VOW A2 style on the rear of my FAL, and am wondering if they'll offer a variation for this?

[airbornefist]

go here:

http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=VOWTRI&storeid=1&image=paratsight.gif

:biggrin:

[airbornefist]

oh yeah, here too:

http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=SA58NS&storeid=1&image=falnitesite.gif

[Gloftoe]

Hmm!

I wonder if they'd let you buy JUST the tritium front post? I can get replacement apertures for my VOW rear sight from Bushmaster (I think they'd fit), so would only need the front sight post. Otherwise, I'd have to buy both sets of sights (front and back, and then the VOW rear)

[GrunerGewehr]

Gents,
I own a Valmet M-76 and a SIG 550, both as you know have tritium night sights ,and IMHO these type of night sights are just not that great. They take a lot of pratice to use and if there is not alot of ambient moon light or your target is not back lit its extremely its hard to line up the green glowing dots to make a good sight picture. I guess they are better than nothing, but if I were in the market for a night sight I would go for one of the lighted retical scopes mentioned earlier in this thread, or a honest to God third generation NVD scope. Yes, its alot of money but its the best thing going. Some of the ANVIS 6 goggles I flew with were outstanding.
I can tell you after looking thruogh a nice high quality NVD, tritium night sights like these on a rifle, for such an important function just don't make the grade.:eek:

[heavybullets]

DSA has FAL night sites-

www.dsarms.com

[heavybullets]

Gloftoe-

DSA will indeed sell just the tritium front sight for FAL.

Go to www.dsarms.com and look around a bit. :-)

[Phessor]

I have a set of Trijicon night sights on my DSA FAL. The rear aperture is HUGE!
Phessor :shades:

[fixit]

The DSA sites don't look right.
1) If you line up the dots you will be shooting too high unless the rear dots are slightly lower than center and they don't look it.
2) The front blade is excessively wide and would suck for daytime use.
This idea should be re-thought. I also had a Valmet M76 .308 and their solution to me is the best, a flip up front nite sight and flip up rear nite site. This solution allows the best of both, more precise day sights and nite sights flipped into position only when needed.
Sorry I sold that Valmet, best battle rifle IMHO, except the mags were not very rugged. Bought it for only $700 about 15 years ago, now it's gone, made only $500 profit on that one. Dam thing probably could fetch over double that today. Mags go for up to $200 each now! Oh well...

[brownknees]

Re: rear sight aperture size.
The correct size for a low light aperture should be about 7~8mm. It looks huge, but you need the 7mm for the dilated iris in your eyeball to be able to accept all the (low) light available. If the aperture is bigger than that then there is a problem.
If it is smaller than that it will act like your eye has not become night accustomed.
The drawback with a night sight, if it doesn't have a day aperture is that it works like a "ghost ring" in daylight when the iris is at about 2~3mm.
The idea here is that the outside of the aperture should be just small enough to have the rim just visible on the edge of your peripheral vision. What happens is that the eye/brain combination finds this "irritating" & automatically centers the eye's lens to minimize the effect.

Did you try looking thru the sights at night, after waiting 15~20 minutes for your night eyes to adjust?