PDA

View Full Version : Legal: parts count


Toxey
December 21, 2000, 23:56
Ok, considering that I have a stg-58 with all legal parts ,including the follower and butt plate.
If I change out the cocking handle and pistol grip to USA parts,will I be able to use any magazine I want?

[ January 25, 2002: Message edited by: EMDII ]

Bruce J
December 22, 2000, 00:46
Seems like a lot of trouble and worry counting US parts, saving receipts etc..

I'd like to hear from any private gun owner (not a commercial importer or manufacturer) who has actually ever been scrutinized for their US parts count by an offical. It seems the only ones that throw a tizzy about parts counts are the gun owners themselves.
I have met the enemy and they are us...

------------------
Bruce J
Kansas City
BruceJ@fnfal.com

[This message has been edited by Bruce J (edited December 22, 2000).]

RThomas
December 22, 2000, 05:43
I know I will get flamed for this but I don't see how they can tell. So many "US made" parts are not marked, who can be sure? How about taking a good letter punch set and stamping "US" on HTS parts, do a little cosmetic filing, refinish, Ta Da! US parts. Yep, I know, no receipt. Things get lost over time. I have legal guns now, and the paper to prove it, but in 10, 20 or more years, who knows? I wouldn't recommend flaunting a flashhider or bayo lug but some of the other parts, who can tell? I just don't see how this stuff is gonna get you in trouble on it's own. They'll want you for something far worse if they start grasping at petty parts count legalities. RT

twodog
December 22, 2000, 11:29
I and other have posted on this numerous times. Seems they only enforce this if they want you for something else. Also depends on where you live IMHO. In Kalifornia they'd probably check/arrest you, here in Arkansas they'd ask if they could shoot it.

Mikul
December 22, 2000, 12:27
Ya know, I seem to remember playing adventure games on my computer with less difficult puzzles that this.

Tokey, the next time you're at a party, walk up to someone you don't know and ask that exact question. I'll bet their head explodes.

Littlejohn
December 23, 2000, 10:34
The possibility of a BATF agent coming up to you at the range to check for US parts is almost nil - witness the amount of "post/pre-ban 'illegal' configurations at gun shows and gun shops, with no apparent consequences. It's really your own concience that dictates having/building a 'correct' gun...of course if BATF or other LEO has a reason (valid or not) to 'visit' your home, you can be sure of close scrutiny of whatever weapons you have on hand, as well as any machines/parts/pieces lying around that might constitute 'manufacturing' or 'altering' weapons to illegal configurations. As a certified instructor I do point out these 'iregularities' to dealers or individuals, but in a positive way. I really don't care what they do about it...also, make no mistake: 'they' know which parts are US made and which are punched out by amateurs! LOL http://www.fnfal.com/forums/biggrin.gif



------------------
"The thicker the hay, the easier mowed." Alaric - 408 AD

Master Blaster
December 23, 2000, 11:36
Greetings All,
I have seen this issue on several occasions now and I want to wade in on this event. I know that part of the fun of these FAL rifles is being able to build them for very little money. I also know that the likelyhood of ever being checked is probably remote. But, There is always the offhand chance that it could happen. It is for this reason that buying a required number of varifiable U.S. made parts is pretty CHEAP insurance should the unthinkable occur. That $300.00 investment (DSA parts) is also advantageous from the perspective of being able to use any magazine that you wish. I know that all this fuss over parts is a royal pain in the A$$ and completely stupid but it is a reality. IMHO!
Happy Holidays All,
Jim

tool
December 23, 2000, 12:01
Littlejohn -

Is the BATF Firearms Technology Branch smart enough to tell the difference between DSA fire-control parts and Steyre fire-control parts?

That is the question a lot of FALers want to know because there is just not that much difference. In fact, with a naked untrained eye there none.

daimok
December 23, 2000, 12:20
my 2 cents , i ordered a stock set for my daewoo to get rid of that nasty thumbhole stock. it came with u.s parts to make it legal. all the paperwork said was that they have pictures on file with the batf and that those could be used if legal issues arose.

tool
December 23, 2000, 13:10
oh, no one answered Toxey - he has an Entreprise. I know all about this. Toxey, as long as you add those 2 parts - US charging handle and pistol grip, you are fine. Trust me.

That will bring your total US parts count to 7:

1) pistol grip
2) charging handle (classified as operating rod by BATF)
3) Receiver
4) gas piston
5) muzzle brake
6) & 7) two of the three fire-control parts are made by Entreprise and marked "EAI" I think.

[This message has been edited by tool (edited December 23, 2000).]

Toxey
December 23, 2000, 17:29
Thanks Tool

Littlejohn
December 23, 2000, 18:17
Tool - BATF has all the US parts, manuals, foreign parts, examples of semi kits and so forth...as stated above they rely on their expert witnesses...the FSE/DSA/AZEX fire control parts are engraved, and a part with no markings must rely on paperwork to prove it's US-made...no one in the field has the capability to prove anything; again, when they haul you in for something else is when they put you under a microscope!
Peace of mind means a lot - plus you know the quality of parts going into your weapon - they are not air guns spitting out .177 pellets at 800 fps...but gunpowder-loaded military weapons, and so I want that peace of mind i speak about! (My last .02!) http://www.fnfal.com/forums/biggrin.gif

------------------
"The thicker the hay, the easier mowed." Alaric - 408 AD

reboot
December 23, 2000, 20:08
Awhile back Lawrence from Entr
eprise posted the list of US parts they use and had some sugestions on which 2 parts to add to bring the US parts count up so you can use regular magazines without being a fellon. Does anyone have a link to that thread? I tried searching but couldn't find it. Tool is probably correct in saying replacing the grip and charging handle will do it, but I'd like to find Lawrence's post just to make sure.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tool:
[B]oh, no one answered Toxey - he has an Entreprise. I know all about this. Toxey, as long as you add those 2 parts - US charging handle and pistol grip, you are fine. Trust me.

That will bring your total US parts count to 7:

1) pistol grip
2) charging handle (classified as operating rod by BATF)
3) Receiver
4) gas piston
5) muzzle brake
6) & 7) two of the three fire-control parts are made by Entreprise and marked "EAI" I think.

spiny_norman
December 22, 2002, 04:43
SO if I have a US muzzle break does that count towards my total, or does it just mean that it doesn't go against me. For example: 6 U.S. without muzzle device, 7 with.

Clear as mud I know. So would that mean I would need only six parts with the US made brake on, or would I still need seven....

God too much wine........:eek:

EMDII
December 22, 2002, 11:41
Count how many Evil FOREIGN Parts (EFPs) you have in your Franken-FAL. You may have NO MORE THAN 10 from the list above. If it takes you using a MB (BTW, it's spelled BRAKE) to get less than 120 EFPs, so be it.

The whole point of the Law is that you have not-too-many EFPs. Count these, subtract from 17 (IF you have ANY muzzle device that remains mounted) and you arrive at how many compliance parts you need.

And don't forget: if you have a detachable magazine and PG, you may NOT have a flash hider muzzle device of ANY kind. Nor may you thread the muzzle unless you permanently affix said device to the threads.

There is, for Toxey et al, a thread on the Entreprise parts-count. Right here in FAQs FORUM.
:wink:

Use that 'Eureka' thread to access the right Search mask.

nczervik
December 29, 2002, 03:03
Littlejohn,I've got a set of DSA fire control parts(h,t,s), and they
are not marked in any way Made in USA like my 3 sets of FSE
fire control parts are. Am I missing something?:(

Blag
January 25, 2003, 19:18
Originally posted by gary.jeter
A FAL has 17 potentially "evil" parts under 18 USC 178.39.

That reference should be 27 CFR 178.39.

It's in the Code of Federal Regulations. CFR is executive regulations.

USC = U.S. Code, the laws of Congress.

Here's a link to the document from Cornell...

http://squid.law.cornell.edu:9000/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=27&PART=178&SECTION=39&TYPE=TEXT

Flattop
January 28, 2003, 09:41
OK I am thoroughly confused. I have a Century L1A1 sporter I bought back in 1995. It has no bayo lug or flash supressor and has a thumhole stock. Would it be legal for me to put a pistol grip American made stock set from TAPCO on this rifle without adding any more American made parts?

EMDII
January 28, 2003, 13:51
It is more than likely Import compliant, unless some third party swapped things about. Biggest danger: the rifle requires THE magazine sold w/ it to comply.

Forget US-made parts. Count HOW MANY Evil Foreign Parts (EFPs) you have IN/ON the rifle. 10 or less: strap anything on it you want SO LONG AS you also comply w/ the 94 Ban. More than 10 EFPs? Start a reduction program ASAP. Can't prove your EFP count? A bit trickier there, Mate.

BTW: ATF have determined that a butthole stock is a form of PG anyway. Loose it.

Clark
June 08, 2003, 12:40
I called the BATF techinical department many times and took good notes on the answers I got.

On the question of:
1) Where is the line between flash hider and recoil compentsator?
2) What are the cut off serial numbers for pre ban SKSs?

They gave me the run around and I wrote to my senator who forced them to answer. They still just gave weasel words. They said flash hiders reduce flash and check with importers for serial numbers.

On the qestion of military bi- pods being illegal per the BATF ruling, I bought a Harris commercail bi- pod per the ATF suggestion. Only later was the BATF beat in court on this issue.

I have a freind that the BATF spent millions trying to convict for making silencer parts. The surveylance included a 2" high stack of transcripts of my friend's telephone taps [almost all of which was the wife talking to her mother]. Any how, the public defender was all my friend could afford, but he jury came back in 5 minutes with not guilty.

I think the BATF has learned their lesson, don't bring fire arms charges alone in front of a jury.