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EMDII
October 30, 2000, 12:51
Will amend as necessary. These probably don't fit EVERY variant, but we'll start.

********************

FAL rifle 50.00

Weight: 4.325 kg empty, 5.025 kg w/ 20 round magazine holding ball SS 77 ammunition.

LOA: 1.090 meteres
Barrel: 533 mm
Sight radius: 553 mm

Barrel: 4 groove, RH, 1 in 305mm twist (1-12")

Cyclic rate: 650 rpm (full auto)
Sustained rate: 60 rpm

Cartridge:
Ball, SS 77
Weight: 9.3 grams
Charge: 3 grams proprietary powder

Muzzle velocity (21" FAL): 840 m/sec (2754 fps)
Muzzle KE: 335 kgm (2422 ft-lbs)
600m KE: 110 kgm (723 ft-lbs)

Lubrication:
OIL: Inside breechblock slide (bolt); breechblock at locking shoulder mate; receiver rails for breechblock slides, upper and lower; bolt hold open.

DRY: Barrel; gas cylinder; gas piston; gas plug; outer surface of carrier; front face of breechblock (bolt); magazine and platform (follower); sights.

The above applies to firing prep, not storage.

Sights:
Front: rotary, 1 click = 1cm @ 100m. Moving foresight pin down (CW) moves MPI up.
Backsight (standard metric): RANGE ramp adjustments 100m intervals between 200 and 600m. Windage: 1 click = 1cm @ 100m. Windage adjsuted by alternately lossening and tightening the opposing screws at the base of the backsight.


Variants:
********************
50.63
called 'para' or 'Congo'

18" barrel, folding stock, backsight flip at two fixed ranges (250m & 400M IIRC). operating spring and guide part of new design top-cover.
+++++
50.61

21" barrel, folding stock
flip sight
standard TMH (lower)
+++++
50.64

21" barrel, folding stock
flip sight
alloy TMH (lower)
+++++
50.41

HB rifle, short forearm, bipod on coupler, reversed carrying handle
+++++
50.42

also called FALO (Fusil Automatique Lourde);
Same as 50.41, but w/ hinged buttplate
+++++



Also, send me data e-mail, and I will post into a single contiguous file.

I don't claim historical accuracy. I do have Stevens' book. This data is culled from it, military pubs, commercial owner's manuals, and other public data.

More to follow!

[ November 25, 2001: Message edited by: EMDII ]

EMDII
November 06, 2000, 10:26
Canadian C1 and C2 specs, courtesy of recce, via Canadian Land Forces technical manual.

+++++++++++
Chapter 2
The Rifle 7.62mm FN C1
Section 1 - General

201. General

1. The FN rifle in general use in the Canadian Forces was first manufactured by the Belgian arms firm Fabrique Nationale. The original version of this weapon had an action mechanism that provided for 'automatic' operation. This automatic feature has been omitted in the current Canadian weapon but may be reintroduced if necessary.

2. The FN rifle was adopted for use by the Canadian Forces after it had been modified to withstand Canadian climactic conditions and accept the Standard NATO Small Arms Cartridge, the 7.62 mm.

202. Role

1. The rifle is the principal small arms weapon of the Canadian Forces. Its role within the Land Forces is virtually universal as it is used throughout the range of conflict from nuclear war to peacekeeping and internal security.

2. The rifle is the primary weapon for Infantry use.

Section 2 - Characteristics and Mechanism

203. Characteristics

1. General Characteristics
a. The 7.62 mm FN C1 rifle is a gas-operated, self-loading weapon. It is shoulder controlled and magazine fed. A different version of the rifle, the Automatic, FN C2, can fire both single rounds and bursts of several rounds (Figure 2-1).
b. The rifle weighs approximately 5 kg (11 lb) with a full magazine.
c. The magazine holds 20 rounds.
d. The rifle is designed so operations such as cocking and loading are done with the left hand while the right hand grasps the pistol grip.
e. The rifle has a carrying handle fitted at the point of balance.
f. The rifle can be fitted with a bayonet or a grenade launcher.
g. The rifle has a slotted-tube flash eliminator run on fitted to its muzzle.
h. The rifle is fitted with a folding disc sight with aperture graduations from 183 to 550 m (200 to 600m). The 183 m (200-yd) aperture is normally used as the battle sight.
j. The rifle has a trap in the butt designed to hold a coiled pull-through and oil bottle.

2. Data Summary
a. Physical Data
Calibre 7.62 mm
Length (normal butt) 113.7 cm (44.75 in)
Length of barrel 53.4 cm (21 in)
Rifling number of grooves 6
pitch 1 turn in 30.5 cm (12 in)
twist right hand
Type of sight blade foresight, aperture rear sight
200-600 yd (180-550m)
Sight radius 53.4 cm (21 in)
Locking shoulder 15 sizes, 0.001 in variation
Rifle Weight 4.22 kg (9 lb 6 oz)
Rifle weight with full magazine and bayonet 5.24 kg (11 lb 10 oz)
Weight of bayonet 0.32 kg (11.5 oz)
Length of bayonet 20.3 cm (8 in)
Magazine box type, 20 rds, double feed
Muzzle velocity 838.2 m/sec + 12 m/sec
(2750 fps + 40 fps)
Rate of fire: Cyclic 675-750 rpm
effective 75 rpm
Butt length
Short 'S' 24.76 cm (9.75 in)
Normal 'N' 26.03 cm (10.25 in)
Long 'L' 27.94 cm (11 in)
Long butt 'L' 29.22 cm (11.5 in)

b. Operating Data
System of operation : Self-loading, gas operated, short stroke. Breech locking action: dropping breechblock.
c. Fitting of Butt Lengths. There is no general rule for the selection of the correct of the C1 Rifle for a particular individual. Each individual soldier must establish the length of butt suited to him by trial and prove its suitability by firing. As a guide to issuing a suitable butt length, however, the following method is recommended:
(1) The serviceman holds the pistol grip in the right (or left) hand with the finger on the trigger. The arm is bent at the elbow at an angle of 90 degrees with the lower arm parallel to the ground.
(2) The hand is rotated inward (sic) until the pistol grip is parallel to the ground and the butt lies on top of the lower arm.
(3) If the butt length is correct, the end of the butt should rest against the upper arm near the elbow, the butt lies on the top of the lower arm, and the finger is on the trigger.

Note: The butt length must be checked during training and initial firing and the rifle exchanged if necessary.

3. Matching of Serial Numbers
a. A serial number is engraved in two positions on the rifle -

(1) on the trigger mechanism housing located on the right side, directly below the rear sight, and
(2) on the rifle body located on the right side below the breech block carrier.

b. For safety and control reasons the user should check to ensure that both serial numbers are the same. If they are not the same the rifle must be returned to the supply section for replacement.

Chapter 3
The Canadian Light Automatic Rifle 7.62mm, FN C2
Section 1 - Role, Characteristics, and Mechanism

301. Role

The Light Automatic Rifle (LAR) is capable of firing bursts and, therefore, provides more firepower than rifle. In the offensive role, it is usually used to provide covering fire for the manoeuvre of rifle-equipped troops. In the defensive role, within a rifle section, it is usually sited to cover the most likely where full use of its greater range and firepower can be made.

302. Characteristics

1. General Characteristics. The LAR is very similar to the rifle in operation and mechanism. The characteristics for the rifle and the LAR are the same with the following exceptions.
a. The LAR is capable of firing either single rounds or bursts.
b. The LAR weighs approximately 6.2 kg (15 lb) with a fully loaded magazine.
c. The magazine capacity is 30 rounds. The magazines are interchangeable with those of the rifle.
d. The LAR is fitted with a folding disc sight of the aperture type graduated from 200 to 1,000 meters (220 to 1,100 yards).
e. A pressed metal bipod with a laminated wood covering is fitted to the LAR. It is a folding type bipod and when folded can be used as a forestock, allowing the LAR to be fired in a manner similar to the rifle.


2. Data Summary

a. Physical Data
Calibre 7.62 mm
Length (normal butt) 113.7 cm (44.75 in)
Length of barrel 53.4 cm (21 in)
Rifling number of grooves 6
pitch 1 turn in 30.5 cm (12 in)
twist right hand
Type of sight blade foresight
aperture rear sight
Sight radius 53.4 cm (21 in)
Weight (normal butt) 5.6 kg (12.5 lb)
Weight with full magazine 6.75 kg (15 lb)
Weight with empty magazine 6.1 kg (13.5 lb)
Magazine box type, capacity 30 rd
Muzzle velocity 838.2 m/sec + 12 m/sec
(2750 fps + 40 fps)
Rate of fire: Cyclic 675-750 rpm
effective 75 rpm
Butt length (normal) 26 cm (10,25 in)

b. Operating Data
System of operation Self-loading and automatic fire, gas operated
Breech locking action dropping breech block




------------------
1*.....Train Like You Fight: Second Place is NOT an Option.

E.M. (Ted) Dannemiller II

EMDII
March 21, 2001, 04:20
Thanks to Dean Lehrman (just another FALa) for the 50.61/50.64 clarifications!
http://www.fnfal.com/forums/wink.gif

------------------
1*.....Train Like You Fight: Second Place is NOT an Option.

E.M. (Ted) Dannemiller II

Sparhawk
March 21, 2001, 13:18
Great!

Now how about some pics for those of us who don't know what these look like.

Can you do the same thing with the different variants?

I still don't know what the differences between an R1, Izzy, Imbel, Stg-58, L1A1, etc...

I bought one of the group buy kits, and I am looking forward to building several FAL's, but I'm not sure about what each one is. I saw this post: http://www.fnfal.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/000154.html
Titled X8 Custom Replica,

Originally posted by Rich@CGW:
DSA Type 1,Argentine barrel,Izzy front sight post,C1 stripper clip dust cover, Izzy forward assist cocking handle ( STG58 carrier modified ), Izzy lower,Izzy rear sight,Izzy FA selector and Ironwood furniture. All Izzy proof marks removed..

and

Originally posted by ByronF:
Dang, Rich. That's beautiful! It also includes a lot of what I consider to be the best features of all variants.

But what are all the different variants?

Chris

NZ L1A1 Collector
May 31, 2001, 06:49
Thought I would add these in here too :)

Here is the list of True Inch manufactured FAL's;
Australian:

L1A1
L1A1-F1
L1A1A (USA Market version)
L1A1A (Australian Market version)
L1A1A Commemorative (Australian Issue only, ONLY 1 sold before Govt stopped sales)

L1A1 DP (Drill Purpose)
L1A1 SR (Special Rifle (Sectionalised))
L1A1 Commemorative (Sectionalised))

L2A1 (prototype)
L2A1
L2A1 f/w recoil reducer, short butt & 600 yard sight
L2A1 DP (Drill Purpose)
X1F2A1 (Prototype)
X1F2A2 (Prototype)
X1F2A3 (Prototype)

SAF Target Rifle


British:

TRM (Tool Room Model, first true "Inch" FAL made in England. 1955)
X14E1 (pre production 'L1A1')

L1A1
L1A1 DP (Drill Purpose)
L1A1 Sectionalised


Canada:

TRM (Tool Room Model, first true "Inch" FAL. 1955)

C1
C1D (for the Navy with C2 change lever)
C1A1
C1A1D (for the Navy with C2 change lever)
C1A2 (Proposed) but commonaly refered to as the "8L series" (has C2 gas block and small square ejector block)

C1A1 Dummy Rifle (Plastic & steel rifle used in training)
C1 Sectionalised (unknown but most likey made)

C2
C2A1

So there you have it a total of: 30 possibly 31 True 'Inch' FAL's to find, build and collect........ but then you also have all the different versions of furniture and layouts too + accessories, parts, sights, reference materials etc

EMDII
November 25, 2001, 08:25
btt, as there are some recent Q.

xIA
February 08, 2002, 12:06
Here's a Note:

I didn't think I EVER heard a 50.61 mentioned until Stevens book became popular around here, and in checking the '89 Gun South catalog that someone was nice enough to post I found that my feeble old mind had not failed me. In the US, they were ALL 50.64s whether the lower was steel or LW, just like a 50.00 is just that whether LW or not.

xIA
February 08, 2002, 12:18
And a question...

I thought the 50.41 and 50.42 difference was that one had a wood stock and the other synthetic.
Is this incorrect?

EMDII
February 08, 2002, 13:01
Originally posted by Inland Armory:
<STRONG>I thought the 50.41 and 50.42 difference was that one had a wood stock and the other synthetic.</STRONG>

I have a catalog copy that does not distinguish the two on the basis of the wood/plastic. Hmmm. I'll recheck it when I get home.

xIA
February 18, 2002, 15:35
The Browning owner's manual I have lists the 50.41 as having a synthetic buttstock and the 50.42 as being wood (w/ the corresponding weight difference).
Neener.
Back to you, Ted. :D

xIA
March 04, 2002, 07:51
IA Vindicating Manual Page (http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid3/pd6f90e06005a4c95caa081da2e3528fd/fde76f18.gif)

See above referenced book (so thoughtfully scanned for us ingrates).
Technical Data. 50.41 vs. 50.42

Neener,

[ March 04, 2002: Message edited by: Inland Armory ]

mpl897
March 29, 2002, 20:30
Can anybody tell me the difference between a L1A1----a M-444 ?? I am getting a FAL shortly but I want the rite one. :confused:

wayne
March 29, 2002, 20:47
L1A1 is inch pattern gun M444 is all metric w/imbel receiver. just bought one (M444) from Dan's Sporting Goods, nice gun. check archives for more info i didn't know what an FAL was 3mos ago. have fun!
:D :p

Falfegnügen
March 30, 2002, 17:50
The L1A1 is the Canadian/British/Australian standardized version of the FAL. It's not they are different sizes, or designed in different dimensions' "Inch" or "Metric", although they are commonly referred to this way. This misnomer came about because the original FN drawings were in Metric, and then the Canadians converted the drawings into Imperial measurements. But, they are exactly the same basic dimensions.

Really the differences are in the details of the design. All things considered, the L1A1 is really a more "refined" rifle (as only the British Empire would have!). That is, many of the original detail problem areas of the FAL were corrected in the L1A1. For instance the L1A1 version corrected these minor deficiencies of the original "Metric" FAL:

Intolerance of sand in the action
Awkward selector
Awkward mag release
Weak front mag attachment
Weak rear stock mounting
Charging handle that pokes soldiers in the back
Binding gas regulator threads (sand problem)
The need for about 5 different sizes of front sites
Stuck gas plugs
Wobbly Flash hiders
The ability to directly load with stripper-clipped ammo (with the right dust cover)


There are other details, but all of these are/were problems with the standard "Metric" FAL. Also, probably the best overall build quality came from the L1A1 factories. On the negative side, parts are slightly harder to get for the L1A1, although many are interchangeable among all FALS, and all major assemblies will interchange. For instance complete lowers (with stocks), upper receivers, barrels, complete gas assemblies etc.

No matter what version or maker though, all FALs are excellent rifles. I can confidently say the as far as build quality, the worst FAL is probably better made and far more accurate than the best soviet rifle, and almost as reliable. And speaking of the worst FAL, the Indian 1A-SL, built at Ishapore, probably falls into that catagory as far as build quality is concerned. Although they corrected the original FAL problems, and it is almost an L1A1 pattern rifle, it does have the Indian's own unique twists. These include:

A "single-cam" bolt
Metric style buttstock
Slightly different trigger group in early models.
Unique Indian front and rear sites
3-prong flash hider
25mm Metric breach threads (original FN design, like Israeli)

And despite what you will read, the gas tubes are the same diameter and threads as an L1A1. Although the tubes are sometimes shorter.

Good Luck!

[ March 31, 2002: Message edited by: Falophile ]

chunster
April 06, 2002, 20:32
What are the differences on the Israeli guns? :confused:

GunDog2006
January 03, 2011, 06:12
I was doing a search for info on the differences of the para 50.61 (has the hiduminium/lightweight lower) versus 50.64 (has the steel lower) ... and found this older thread. Excellent information !!

I am still fuzzy on telling the difference (by looking) between the steel and lightweight lowers. I have heard that some of the hiduminium (lightweight) lowers were marked with an asterisk-type mark on the left side near the pivot point. Is this always the case for a marking for the lightweight lower?

Also, I have heard that the Gun South imported 50.64 might have either the lightweight lower, or the steel lower. Is there any way to distinguish between the two?

I had this idea, if someone was fortunate to own both, have they put them on a scale, and what is the weight? (for example, I have a food scale at home that can weigh anything from zero to over 15 pounds...)

If there were no other markings on the Gun South (advertised) 50.64's... then if there was a known weight, that would help distinguish between the two. As I understand it, the original advertising or packaging or what-not did not distinguish between lightweight or steel lower...

I am in the process of buying a Gun South imported 50.64, and without touching the rifle it would be nice to know which version it is, steel or lightweight, just for future reference. The owner/seller is willing to send pics, etc. Both are beautiful guns I am sure.

Thanks for any additional input, and thanks to the original OP for posting this.



GD