It happened to me...

[gear-head]

LC once fired (?:redface: )

40 gr H4895, 147gr pulled bullet

Fortunately, the pieces fell out of the chamber when I released the mag
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1336/965760207_b6aefee4c2_o.jpg

[TerryN]

Was it once-fired by you? Or did you buy it that way? Did you happen to do the 'bent paper clip test' on it before loading?

Looks like machine gun brass; probably MG brass from a barrel with a L-O-N-G chamber. You should invest in a ruptured cartridge case extractor.

[gear-head]

Originally posted by TerryN
Was it once-fired by you? Or did you buy it that way? Did you happen to do the 'bent paper clip test' on it before loading?


Once fired by someone else, didn't do the paper clip test, but I do have a broken shell extractor.

Apparently, I prefer to learn the hard way!

[W.E.G.]

How do you establish the correct setting for your resizing die?

[GySgt D]

Does the picture show a berdan primed case, or am I majorly confused?

[gear-head]

Originally posted by GySgt D
Does the picture show a berdan primed case, or am I majorly confused?

No, it's a Boxer primed Lake City case. I see a dot on the picture too, but it's just that, a dot.

[rochte]

Okay, I've Googled it and I give up - what's the "bent paper clip test"?

[aardq]

You take a paper clip, straighten it out and bend a small part of one end 90 degrees. The paper clip tool will easily enter the mouth of most caliber cases.

Insert the bent tip to the inside base and then slowly pull it up holding the tip of the bent end against the case wall. If the case has been stretched you will feel it as an indentation.

Dan

Tried to post a pic, but don't know how. We need better directions under the faq.

[instr8]

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185311


My onlyest sticky

[shootist87122]

What rifle? (Plus what WEG said.)

[W.E.G.]

How do you establish the correct setting for your resizing die?

[instr8]

Originally posted by W.E.G.
How do you establish the correct setting for your resizing die?


Tell us how you do it.

Other that tightning it down to where there is a slight camover to get enough shoulder setback, I don't know what you are talking about.

[brownknees]

That's setting up the die for a "Standard" chamber.

If your FAL has a slightly out of spec chamber, or there are other things in effect you're over-resizing the brass, & maybe allowing it to stretch more on firing. This will quickly cause the kind of case failure you're seeing here.

Try this.
Get a candle & rotate a fired case just over the tip of the flame till there is a layer of black soot all round the case neck & shoulder. You don't need a lot, so the case should not get too hot to handle.

Now back off the sizing die about 2 turns & take out the decapping stem completely.
Run the smoked case thru the resizing cycle & see where the soot has stopped being removed by the die.

Take you best guess as to how much further in the case has to go to bring the neck down to the edge of where the shoulder just starts.

Screw the die in by 1/2 that amount & repeat the sizing cycle. DO NOT re-smoke the case.

Keep doing this till you have JUST reached the base of the neck & there is some removal (but not all) in the shoulder. What you're looking for is a contact, but a minimum one on the shoulder itself.

You'll have to go in little steps as you get closer as you want to "sneak up" on the correct place, not overshoot.

Now tighten the die 1/8th turn, no more. Then lock the ring to make this setting permanent.

Finally re-install the decapping pin & make just enough adjustments so that it will pop out the spent primer. It will be tough to get in on the first try as the neck will have been squeezed down several times during the setting up process, so add some lube to the expander ball.
Now with the decapping pin inside the primer pocket, clamp it in position.

What you've done here is to custom design the amount of resizing to match your chamber, rather than some industry-standard chamber. When you add the 1/8th turn you're allowing a slight extra clearance to allow for easy & positive chambering.

NOTE: this will set up this die for this chamber, not any other one you may have, even in the same caliber. If you're using this to reload for several different rifles you may have to test each one individually & come up with a compromise that works for all of them.

:beer:

One of the benefits of reloading is that you can make ammo that's designed to custom fit in YOUR chamber.

[brownknees]

Looking at the pic of the failed case.
Am I imagining it or is there a distinct difference in the thickness of the case, as photographed, the top being a lot thinner than the bottom?
If this is real, rather than a photographic effect I'd be concerned as this may be a defect in the manufacture of that lot of brass.

[gear-head]

Originally posted by brownknees
Looking at the pic of the failed case.
Am I imagining it or is there a distinct difference in the thickness of the case, as photographed, the top being a lot thinner than the bottom?
If this is real, rather than a photographic effect I'd be concerned as this may be a defect in the manufacture of that lot of brass.

Somewhat hard to tell. I put a micrometer on the case end, and got an average of 0.032 inches taken from 8 different points around the circumference.

However, the separation happened so low down that the wall is already beginning it's thickening towards the base, so I really can't give an accurate measurement of the wall thickness at that point.

[brownknees]

I'm thinknig of the differences, rather than the average.
try this.
Measure at 4 points, (12o'clock, 3 o'clock, 6 o'clock, & 9 o'clock.)

What is the thickest, and thinnest, and what's the difference between them?
It might be a bit hard to do as there may be some distortion of the brass right at the seperation.
Or it may just be the way the camera's seeing the edges.

[gear-head]

Originally posted by brownknees
I'm thinknig of the differences, rather than the average.
try this.
Measure at 4 points, (12o'clock, 3 o'clock, 6 o'clock, & 9 o'clock.)

What is the thickest, and thinnest, and what's the difference between them?
It might be a bit hard to do as there may be some distortion of the brass right at the seperation.
Or it may just be the way the camera's seeing the edges.

Must be the camera. All four points around it runs .030 to .032

[brownknees]

That's well within tolerances.
So at least you get to keep the brass.:biggrin:
Do you have any unfired brass & any way of measuring the length to the "datum line" on the shoulder?

[owlcreekok]

Hey Browny - I read your post over real careful. Once. So forgive if I am missing it. Didn't you just describe what a neck sizing die does ? If you back a FL die off enough to keep it "off the case barrel" can it really get around the neck at all ?

Not being a smartass, I'm serious.

:?

[brownknees]

You'll get something between a neck sizing & a full length sizing effect.
The whole neck will be resized, like a neck sizing die, but the rest of the brass will be minimally worked, and then only if it has expanded past a certain point.
It does the absolute minimum needed to get the round to chamber reliably.
That's the reason why you do that last turn in 1/8th turn, to JUST work the shoulder & body.

In effect what you'r doing is to cast the chamber by fire-forming the brass, and then just resizing by whatever amount in a streight line is caused by using the die threads as a kind of micrometer adsjustment.

[owlcreekok]

Thanks, BK. I'll have to play with that some.

BOT- I made a case probe out of a dental pick after reading instr8's sticky.

:bow:

[brownknees]

The post was a basic setup for doing this, aimed at someone who was new to reloading.

For that reason I made the "Now tighten the die 1/8th turn, no more. Then lock the ring to make this setting permanent." remark.

Now you can use any setting that the rifle likes between here & touching the top of the ram on cam-over. None of thes positions will make a "dangerous" round, because you're making adjustments between minimum fit in YOUR chamber & "Factory Standard".

You might find that you want to use some intermediate position that will work better for you than this arbitrary 1/8 th turn to, for example improve reliability in dirt/mud.

One thing I'll mention here is that the fiber-optic attachment for a maglite is handy for checking inside cases. Just push the little sucker in there & then squint round the fiber to see what's going on in there. You can run it up & down inside to light up all sorts of diferent levels inside the body of the case.

[merrden]

Hi Guys: I had similar problems with commercial 30 06 in 1977. Some of the cases would split at the neck and shoulder no matter how well lubed. Most had probably been fired in The simi automatic Remington's. Strangely most of the 7.62 brass that I had at that time had been fired in M60s. No problems. I have even made several hundred 7.62 x 39s and other cartridges out of this brass. For some reason from time to time different batches of brass tends to be brittle either from work hardening or by virtue of the alloy or the way it was manufactured. If it was not annealed or was run too fast it could be brittle. Other than the pick test discussed annealing it at 400 degrees in your oven (mamasan really gonna like that) for 30 min. is about your only option. This is a common practice of those who make their own cases
I carried an M60 for 3 years and had several case head separations during firing. Fortunately I was not in combat (never was 82nd 73 - 75)when it happened. Remember that military brass is made by the lowest bidder and they tend to take shortcuts to get an edge for profit. Even so mil spec is supposed to be thicker at the case head for extra strength as a safety factor. Thanks for the heads up as I just got a DillonXL 650 to feed my pets and will start loading as soon as I assemble everything. Anybody got a .223 conversion kit, 7.62 x 54, 8 x 57 kits for a XL650 for sale?Please advise.
(423) 605 - 0297 meerrden@comcast.net

Later

[DarkEarth]

Sorry but I need to tag this.:bow: