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thanatos56
July 15, 2007, 22:33
ALL of the AKs that I have built have been 7.62x39. Got a Tantal parts set, and I have the strongest urge to convert the 5.45 to 5.56...

Obviously the barrel has got to be changed, and I would presume the bolt. Anyone care to clue me in on what else needs to be changed? Rails/ejector from the 5.45 work in 5.56? Front trunnion?

What is the concensus on the most reliable 5.56 AK magazines?

Thanks for the assistance.

chromestarhustler
July 15, 2007, 22:43
with the current price and avaiblity of 5.45, buy a crap load of it and be happy. 223 is to pricey.
you want a 223 ak, buy a galil.

jimmy_stikx
July 18, 2007, 06:48
Or a Saiga and convert it.

elbo
July 18, 2007, 07:19
My understanding:
1. A .223 barrel will not fit your trunnion.
2. The ejector may be too short.
3. New bolt, maybe new carrier to fit new bolt.
4. All new and more expensive magazines. I havn't seen a converted 30rnd 5.45 that I would trust.

My advice:
1. Built this rifle in 5.45.
2. Buy a Saiga and convert it. It will be all new. Set it up for Israeli Orlites.

0007
July 18, 2007, 09:05
Me, I'm wondering how difficult it would be to build a 5.45 AR, heh.

W.E.G.
July 18, 2007, 09:22
WASR-3 and Weiger mags

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WASR_series_rifles

and
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1436775#post1436775

thanatos56
July 18, 2007, 16:39
Thanks...

So...

Barrel
Trunnion
Bolt

Anyone know if the rails/ejector need be changed? Or how the 5.56 ejector compares to the 5.45?

W.E.G.
July 18, 2007, 16:42
thread on 5.45 / 5.56 bolt interchangeability

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=183135

W.E.G.
July 18, 2007, 16:45
See especially http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1443255#post1443255

regarding the rivet-on widow's peak for the .223

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1443255

thanatos56
July 18, 2007, 20:31
Originally posted by W.E.G.
thread on 5.45 / 5.56 bolt interchangeability

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=183135

Did not see any mention comparing the diameters of the 5.45 bolt "shaft" and that of the 5.56...

Any idea?

Don't mind using the Bulgarian bolt, but would rather massage the 5.45 bolt carrier than replace it, if possible.

thanatos56
July 18, 2007, 20:33
Originally posted by W.E.G.
See especially http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1443255#post1443255

regarding the rivet-on widow's peak for the .223

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1443255

Again...

THANK YOU!!!

While not necessarily a "virgin" to WECSOG technique... I appreciate the help of those who have the knowledge, rather than walk the path both cold and blind. ;)

ShuckersFan
July 18, 2007, 20:50
Originally posted by W.E.G.
WASR-3 and Weiger mags

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WASR_series_rifles

and
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1436775#post1436775

What kind of folder is that W.E.G.? Been looking for something like that. It's not a Tapco, is it?

W.E.G.
July 18, 2007, 20:54
It might go something like this.

Press a .223 blank into the trunion to the presumed correct depth.

Drill for the barrel cross pin.

Install the barrel cross pin.

Mark the face of the barrel for the recess that must be cut to allow the bolt to go into battery.

Remove the blank from the trunion.

Machine the face of the barrel to allow the bolt to go into battery.

Re-install the barrel in the trunion to confirm capability of going into battery.

Modify bolt-face and extractor to accomodate .223 case.

Modify bolt shaft as needed to work with carrier, or substitute .223 carrier.

Remove the barrel again, and cut chamber.

Assess feed issues and correct as needed.


Yeah.

Something like that.

W.E.G.
July 18, 2007, 20:55
Originally posted by ShuckersFan


What kind of folder is that W.E.G.? Been looking for something like that. It's not a Tapco, is it?


Plain old ACE side folder.
http://www.riflestocks.com/

K.R. Rabbit
July 18, 2007, 22:13
I thought Arsenal was selling a .223 AK with the new style side folding stock and stainless steel heat shelds in the handguards. It is a proven weapon and is set up from the factory for .223. I can't believe you would save any money doing the conversion, better to buy the Arsenal gun already set up. I own a few of the Arsenal guns and they are by far the finest AKs you can buy in the US. Of course, advice is worth what it costs!
Take care,
Rabbit

thanatos56
July 18, 2007, 22:37
Originally posted by K.R. Rabbit
I thought Arsenal was selling a .223 AK with the new style side folding stock and stainless steel heat shelds in the handguards.

http://www.arsenalinc.com/slr106cr.htm

http://www.arsenalinc.com/slr106cr/slr106cr.jpg

Arsenal wants $1,000; I already have a half dozen receivers, stocks, trigger groups, bolt carriers, etc...

pb
July 19, 2007, 17:11
Originally posted by 0007
Me, I'm wondering how difficult it would be to build a 5.45 AR, heh.





KKF barrel, open up the bolt face.

W.E.G.
July 19, 2007, 17:34
KKF?

http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/page/page/8934.htm

The site doesn't list any AK stuff, but I suspect he could build a barrel.

Still, wouldn't the trunion would need to be installed to calculate the headspace cut?

dasu
July 19, 2007, 21:59
WEG what length Ace stock do you have on that AK? Im trying to figure out which length to buy for my Saiga.

W.E.G.
July 19, 2007, 22:27
Originally posted by dasu
WEG what length Ace stock do you have on that AK? Im trying to figure out which length to buy for my Saiga.

Its the middle size (8.5").

I have a slight beef that the buttpad is too grabby (soft rubber).
I wish it were a harder rubber - like an IMBEL FAL pad.

The ACE version can grab your t-shirt when you're mounting the gun.
Of course, you don't HAVE TO use any buttpad. But it looks incomplete without something on there.

thanatos56
July 19, 2007, 23:08
Originally posted by W.E.G.


Its the middle size (8.5").

I have a slight beef that the buttpad is too grabby (soft rubber).
I wish it were a harder rubber - like an IMBEL FAL pad.

The ACE version can grab your t-shirt when you're mounting the gun.
Of course, you don't HAVE TO use any buttpad. But it looks incomplete without something on there.

The Ace folder that has been on my SLR-95 for the past decade has just the aluminum butt... and for the low powered 7.62x39? Ain't nothin' else needed.

Thanks for the head's up... if it is only available with a soft rubber "recoil pad"? I might have to rethink buying one...

{EDIT} W.E.G. ... I went back to Ace's site; says that the tubes are made of Delrin. Yours like that, rather than aluminum tubes? You know... you COULD cut a butt pad from a block of Delrin, and shape it to fit... ;)

W.E.G.
July 19, 2007, 23:20
I think the skeleton is Delrin or some such.

Alternate pad designs have crossed my mind. A solid block of Delrin, with any shape or character, would probably add weight - not a lot - but that stuff is dense.

I'd still prefer rubber - but a harder compound than the smooshy crutch-cushion stuff that ACE furnishes.

thanatos56
July 19, 2007, 23:35
Originally posted by W.E.G.


Alternate pad designs have crossed my mind.

Don't know if this is of any interest to you, but...

I have used close-cell foam pipe insulation of the top rail on a couple of Paratrooper folders, and on the Ace folder on my SLR-95. REAL inexpensive, and feels a bit nicer on the cheek weld than the bare tube. Comes in black, and the the foam tube is slit, with adhesive on both sides. Just pull the paper covering, and press together. At like 50 cents/foot, damn sight less expensive than a "rail rest"...

dasu
July 20, 2007, 07:01
Originally posted by W.E.G.


Its the middle size (8.5").

I have a slight beef that the buttpad is too grabby (soft rubber).
I wish it were a harder rubber - like an IMBEL FAL pad.

The ACE version can grab your t-shirt when you're mounting the gun.
Of course, you don't HAVE TO use any buttpad. But it looks incomplete without something on there.

i forgot to ask how tall you are.

you can always dispense with the shirt. :) would it be hard to cut up some rubber and screw it on in place of the squishy stuff?

jimmy_stikx
July 20, 2007, 13:26
You could open up the bolt face like on a 9mm conversion to fit the 5.56, other wise you'd have to turn down the Bulgarian stem, or change carriers. Or get with Ivhmash about buying a bolt from them directly. o_O

Hebrew Battle Rifle
July 22, 2007, 02:25
Originally posted by 0007
Me, I'm wondering how difficult it would be to build a 5.45 AR, heh.

I did that very thing today. I am very pleased with myself too:biggrin: