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phillip
July 09, 2007, 21:18
How accurate can an FAL be made to be?

W.E.G.
July 09, 2007, 21:40
Any well-assembled FAL will shoot about 3 MOA.

Beyond that, you can get into a real pissing contest about how many rounds should be fired, at what rate of fire, whether fed from the magazine, what type of ammo used, degree of modifications permitted, etc.

fastprofessor
July 09, 2007, 22:24
My opinion is to not waste time trying to accurize an FAL. If it is built correctly and has a decent barrel, as Gary said, it should shoot about 3 MOA. That is what it was designed to do. I have an STG that shoots very well (~1-2 MOA), and I have an L1A1 that doesn't shoot quite as well (~4 MOA). Both shoot well enough for what they were made for.

IMHO, if you are looking for a tack driver, go for a bolt gun. If you want a very reliable Minute of Man battle rifle, the FAL is one of the best.

ce
July 10, 2007, 00:20
I challenge any man to a pissing contest.

In fact, I challenge the ladies, too.

Any takers?

Yeah, that's right, I didn't think so.

W.E.G.
July 10, 2007, 01:01
You really don't want to cross swords with ce in an accuracy contest. His name has more letters in it than most folks, so his accuracy has to be better.

chromestarhustler
July 10, 2007, 01:50
ok ce i will go head to head with you

Windustsearch
July 10, 2007, 01:59
Minute of milk jug.

chromestarhustler
July 10, 2007, 02:38
i will shoot lakecity and you shoot paki

Hebrew Battle Rifle
July 10, 2007, 03:28
I have noticed that FNs tend to be ammo particular. I have an IMBEL on IMBEL that will consistantly shoot 2 MOA with Australian AAF surplus ammo and South African R1M1. This same rifle will shoot patterns with South African M1A2 surplus, or Argentine.

Another of my FNs w an StG58 barrel will make the bullet holes touch @ 100 yrds (5 shot group) with Australian AAF or my hand loads, but will sling Australian MF and SA R1M1 all over the target.

Yet another FN with a Badger barrel will make all of the holes touch with BF Port or my hand loads ( different recipe than the hand loads for the above), but sling South African R1M1 all over.

I HAD an FN with an early style Argentine barrel that wouldn't shoot a group with any ammo. When I replaced the barrel with a US Made Badger, I had another fine shooter. It loves Australian and Spanish surplus as well as my handloads.

I have only had 1 StG58 barrel that would not produce excellent groups. It was a Belgian barrel. The Austrian StG58 barrels have all been excellent shooters.

It really is a roll of the dice with FNs it seems. Of the barrels that I have used, I prefer in order:
Austrian StG58 (All have been excellent)
Badger(US aftermarket)
Imbel (Some great, some good, some OK. Non bad)
Chrome Lined Argentine (Good shooters)
Non chrome Lined Argentine ( OK shooters mostly. One bad)
Belgian StG58 ( Bad)
Belgian G1(yuck)

phillip
July 10, 2007, 16:19
I get the picture,Thanks.

English Mike
July 10, 2007, 17:14
If you want to set parameters for accuracy testing, then I suggest six round groups, with the furthest out discounted.
Loaded from the magazine, which should contain 19 rounds & using standard sights.
Once you start adding FF HG's, optics, etc., then you are no longer testing the FAL as it was designed to be used.

phillip
July 10, 2007, 19:47
Originally posted by Windustsearch
Minute of milk jug.


It took me almost all day to figure out what you were talking about.LOL Now thats a description I can relate to.:biggrin:

Hebrew Battle Rifle
July 11, 2007, 00:53
Originally posted by Raspeguy



A little wading through the usual mud like this thread has already developed is required on the following:


You are talking bad about me again aint you?

Radio
July 11, 2007, 01:27
"Pissing contest" and "head to head" should NOT be together in the same thread. :uhoh:

--Radio

ACCURRETT
July 11, 2007, 21:55
actually i would like to know the answer myself. free floated highquality parts whatever. Exactly what kind of accuracy can you get out of a fal. not neccesarily a stock fal but any fal. mine was shooting 4 moa (indian 147grnfmj) (100yrds) with bad headspace. since i got it fixed i am interested to see. So how bout it guys lets here how accurate you all have made them?

gunsmith_tony
July 11, 2007, 22:03
The FAL is not intended to be a tack driver. As much as I love them, it's just not the best platform for sub-MOA accuracy.
Accurizing a FAL requires some pretty extensive modifications. Basically, how accurate you want it to be is directly relative to how much $$$ you want to throw at it.
Ed Vanden Berg would be a good place to start.

Hebrew Battle Rifle
July 12, 2007, 00:09
Originally posted by Raspeguy

Not at all and don't even recall a first time conversation. Was typing up my post and didn't read yours until after mine was submitted 2 minutes later.

Sorry Rasp, I was pullin your leg. No worries man:wink:

Hebrew Battle Rifle
July 12, 2007, 00:14
Originally posted by ACCURRETT
actually i would like to know the answer myself. free floated highquality parts whatever. Exactly what kind of accuracy can you get out of a fal. not neccesarily a stock fal but any fal. mine was shooting 4 moa (indian 147grnfmj) (100yrds) with bad headspace. since i got it fixed i am interested to see. So how bout it guys lets here how accurate you all have made them?

If your FN is getting 4 MOA with Indian, then you can reasonably expect it to produce 2 MOA with quality surplus like Australian or Port. If you reload, then I have no doubt that you could achieve those results.

All of my FNs are excellent shooters. NONE of them do better than 4 MOA with Indian.
(Indian is the single largest part of my surplus stash too:| )

dougjones31
July 12, 2007, 12:54
Accuracy is a combination of mainly 4 mechanical things.......in this order

1. Ammo quality
Every barrel has a load that it likes...one that compliments the harmonics of the barrel and gives you tight groups.....unless one of the following things are really screwed up.
The thing that really amazes me is people who expect great accuracy from milsurp ammo. The stuff ain't made to shoot MOA. Then you have to factor in the age and the storage environment. The degredation of the ammo leads to big inconsistancies which lead to big groups.

2. Barrel quality
I will include chamber type/tightness, headspace, straightness of the rifling, etc

3. Tightness/ squareness of locking mechanism
IE the bolt orientation, and fit, and repeatability of the fit.

4. Condition of the muzzle crown and or flash hider
If all other things are right a screwed up crown or muzzle device can screw up your accuracy!


The Human factor is always there also. I include the trigger into this aspect becasue the trigger is dependent on the ability of the shooter.

ACCURRETT
July 12, 2007, 16:15
But shouldn't the headspace being tightened up also tighten up my groups?

W.E.G.
July 12, 2007, 16:32
Originally posted by ACCURRETT
But shouldn't the headspace being tightened up also tighten up my groups?

It might. But don't take that as any sort of guarantee.

newfalguy101
July 12, 2007, 16:42
pretty much what everyone is telling you without saying it is:

FAL accuracy ( beyond the original design criteria ) is exponentially proportional to the amount of money you have to throw at it.

translation:

start throwing buckets of money at it and basically build it completely from scratch with every part built to the tightest specs and you will *probably* end up with a very accurate rifle..........................until some joker with an accurized boltgun comes out to play :tongue:

GySgt D
July 26, 2007, 13:57
Neither of mine shoot better than 2.5 MOA, five shot groups, using carefully handloaded 150gr softpoints.

Typical surplus ammo groups are around 3 MOA.

dougjones31
July 26, 2007, 14:44
I had a project gun that shot a 3 shot group that was .518" and averaged .815" over 60 rounds shot in 3 shot groups.

This gun was equipped with a Douglas heavy barrel that I made a gas block for. I also made a special short gas tube that attached to the receiver and held the shortened gas piston and springs. Everything was contained inside the gas tube which was attached to the receiver to eliminate the effects of the gas system on accuracy. I then used a flexible tube to pipe the gas from the gas block to the end of the custon gas system. It was real cool and took me a month of tinkering to build..............

My SIL's son stole the gun and we cannot make him tell us where it is. He refuses to admit he took it. I know he did, but I cannot prove it.

SOOOOOO, back to the drawing board. I am starting to build another one. I plan to add my own free float handguard design to this like I did the other one. It is a neat concept that I want to market. Actually I was building the gun to start marketing a line of FAL accuracy products. I wanted a working gun to take to shoots and have to take pictures of......well....maybe I will rebuild it before I get too old!:biggrin:

Dunk RD
July 30, 2007, 13:48
With a good kit haveing a nice barrel, Head space @ 0 to .oo1. Time to within
1/10th of a degree and install a good trigger(i like fse with light springs). Hand
load some good bullets with good powder. Make sure the barrel has a nice target quality crown.
If it doesn't shoot a minute and 1/2, Sell it and build another.
But don't forget some serious practice on a regular bases
Dunk RD

ggiilliiee
July 31, 2007, 10:38
1) get your loads oal on the money for your chamber
2)dont use a cheater bar
3) dont buy a barrel from a "homeland security weapons specialists " (putting that veeeeeeerrrryyyy lightly
4)dont file your barrel shoulder /turn it between centers (ya want the muzzle pointed in the same direction as the rifle .yes a strange concept to most but im not the one NOT hitting the jug at 500 yds.those throwing 4 inchers at 100 will be here to disagree im sure ..
5)lap and polish your internals...stock guns are bottom of the barrel for cyclic problems and slowness..feed the ammo dont drag it in ..
6) open up the rails so you avoid the usual wetsac bullet mangling ....making a fancy reload wont do squid shit if the nose gets ripped off on the way in to the chamber..(square projectiles dont fly well ).or if the case is getting scrached...changes headspace/angle of lock up due to the burr on the case ...
7) time the barrel "properly" ...
8) and a picture of baby jesus on the stock wont hurt either
9) 10 k a year in practice ...100 round a year at a 100 yards (pistol range)does not a sniper make ..i rarely shoot under 300 yds ...

dougjones31
July 31, 2007, 12:58
Hmmmmm! ggiilliiee....you forgot these.

10. Make sure you make all your bullets with Silver.
11. cross your toes and finger before every shot.
12. Make sure you say your prayers that morning.
13. Do the Bill Clinton Cigar trick with all your bullets....it makes then fly straight!



Seriously......The part of the FAL that robs accuracy is the bolt to carrier lockup. I will not get into this in this thread because there are alot of things that need to be looked at. Somewhere....Ratas or .....crap....I forgot who did it.....anyway he drilled hole in the top of the bolt carrier so that he could use a set screw to adjust pressure on the top of the bolt so lockups will be improved which will improve accuracy. I have done the same, but I always choose my bolt and carriers by the fit between the two. I have been lucky enough to have a bunch to choose from, but that has changed recently. I am running out of spare parts. Anyway, I have always been able to find a bolt and carrier that fit perfectly.

Looks like the adjustment screw idea may the what we need in the future or if you just have to have matching numbers on your bolt and carrier.....