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View Full Version : FAL seems to be mag picky?????


creator0203
June 25, 2007, 19:03
For some reason this FAL seems to be mag picky. My G1 has no prob with any mag but this one only likes certain ones. The good ones never have a prob. The others won't feed right about every 5 or so rounds. Is there a reason for this? Seems like the bolt pushes them forward then all of a sudden the bullet end pops up and the bolt ends up in the middle of the casing. I have about 30 mags and I really cant see a real diff that would make this prob. Spring tensions all seem to be the same by finger anyways. The bullets all seem to sit the same in the mags. The calipers dont show any measurements that would factor in. One mag will be fine and another of the exact same mag will do this. Any idea? I don't think its a needing to break in thing. Its mostly Aussie parts all Inch on a Metric Gear Logo. My G1 is on a 2003 and this one is on a 2005. All the mags sit up against the rail fine and lock in without wabble. It is widows peak.
The mags that do work never jam. They just keep going with no prob. I have set aside the good ones but would like to be able to use any mags. Even the SA 30 rounder I got from Roosters group buy has probs in it but runs like a champ in my G1. I noticed that if I push the rounds forward by finger they stop at the widows peak and when they are chambered they get a tiny bit taken off the tip. I believe that is normal. Should some dremeling be done to help smoothly guide them in. Thanks all.
Guess there are a few question here.
??????????????????????????

English Mike
June 25, 2007, 19:11
Check the shape & height of the feed lips on the problem magazines against the ones that work.
Measure the gap between the magazine feed lips as well.
Make sure they don't have burrs on them & check the cases that don't feed for longitudinal scratches.

W.E.G.
June 25, 2007, 19:19
You are describing a "bolt-over-base" malfunction.

The reason you think this is a "magazine problem" is because some mags are
releasing the rounds sooner than others. Really though, it probably isn't a
magazine problem (especially if the mags work fine with other rifles). Really its a
receiver problem.

A certain member will be along momentarily to explain this more eloquently.

In the meantime, you need to knock the sharp edges off the receiver rails, and
maybe adjust the size/shape of the "hourglass" to let the rounds pop up from
the magazines a bit sooner.

The sharp undersides of these rails are probably grabbing your cartridges as
they try to move from the magazine to the chamber. Fix this first.

If you still have bolt-over-base problems, consider this:
The rounds release from the magazine as the catridge rim reaches the fat part
of the "hourglass." Sometimes if you alter the hourglass so the fat part is just a
RCH more to the rear, the rounds will clear the mag sooner.

creator0203
June 25, 2007, 19:42
Can a standard file be used to knock the sharp edges off? Just work it slowly going down and slightly sideways evenly? Im not about to take my dremel to it. Just enough with the file to round em a tiny bit?
I think that perhaps some smoothing and gettting the rounds to release sooner may be the trick.
Thaks all and keep the help coming.

W.E.G.
June 25, 2007, 19:50
What?!!!

Not gonna use your dremel?

Are you AFRAID?!!!!!!


ok...seriously, just use a small file to get the angle off, and then follow up with 220 grit, then 400 grit to make it smooth.

A fine-cut, round-shape needle file is a good way to start. A chainsaw file will work too, but you better go easy with it. Them things will cut a lotta metal fast.

If you don't have the right file, sandpaper wrapped around a Bic pen will work.

Go slow. Its a LOT easier to to take metal off, than to put it back.

W.E.G.
June 25, 2007, 19:52
...and remember, its the UNDERside edge of the rail that likes to knife into your brass during feeding. You don't need to be taking metal off the top side edge unless you need to enlarge the hourglass, or move the position of the hourglass.

creator0203
June 25, 2007, 20:11
Thats funny. I actually did carefully use a dremel. I need to get out the sand paper now to smooth it. I noticed the point of the "hour glass" sits further forward then the one on the mag. Should they be in the same place or is a hair forward fine. Sucks that using the bolt/carrier works every time. Guess next range trip will tell the truth. I'll bring the same 4 mags.
How about the fact that I have an inch mag release on this metric gear logo receiver? The lower is Aussie and so is the bolt/carrier.

creator0203
June 25, 2007, 20:26
For now its been smoothed out and talk about a big difference from running your finger over that lower edge. Ill now clean the rifle and not know till the next range trip which wont be for a few weeks.
Thanks all and let me know if an inch mag release on a metric receiver can make any diff. Also if the point of the hour glass on the receiver being a hair further forward then the one on the mag is a good thing.
Fun times

W.E.G.
June 25, 2007, 20:42
If you install a different mag-catch (inch variety or otherwise) that may alter the way the rifle feeds - for better or worse. The feeding of a FAL has much to do with the position of the mags, and certainly the mag catch has much to do with positioning. That issue of mag-catch location has been a major bugbear with a certain manufacturer who can't seem to correctly locate/install an ejector block for love nor money.

I don't think there is anything magic about the inch flavor mag catch. If you do switch to an inch catch, you will need a longer (inch-variety) spring, or you can put a ball-bearing or something under the metric spring.

Don't try to "match" the hourglass to the mags.
Just alter it SLOWLY ("move it rearward") as needed until you achieve reliable feeding.

creator0203
June 25, 2007, 20:52
Originally posted by W.E.G.
If you install a different mag-catch (inch variety or otherwise) that may alter the way the rifle feeds - for better or worse. The feeding of a FAL has much to do with the position of the mags, and certainly the mag catch has much to do with positioning. That issue of mag-catch location has been a major bugbear with a certain manufacturer who can't seem to correctly locate/install an ejector block for love nor money.

I don't think there is anything magic about the inch flavor mag catch. If you do switch to an inch catch, you will need a longer (inch-variety) spring, or you can put a ball-bearing or something under the metric spring.

Don't try to "match" the hourglass to the mags.
Just alter it SLOWLY ("move it rearward") as needed until you achieve reliable feeding.

The mag catch I have is inch. I might get a metric or try the one on my G1 and swap them out at the range to see if it makes a diff.

Tom Jefferson
June 25, 2007, 21:44
If you install a different mag-catch (inch variety or otherwise) that may alter the way the rifle feeds - for better or worse. The feeding of a FAL has much to do with the position of the mags, and certainly the mag catch has much to do with positioning. That issue of mag-catch location has been a major bugbear with a certain manufacturer who can't seem to correctly locate/install an ejector block for love nor money.

I have an FAL from a cast receiver (guess what maker?) that had WAY too much slop with most mags. Took out the mag-catch, welded a bead on the end, dremeled (a correct verb?) to shape, filed, wet/dry sandpaper 220-600, steel wooled, cold-blue, and the slight added length took out the slop and WAY improved reliability, and I do believe accuracy as to consistency of rounds to upward push-up-on-the-bolt pressure (or lack of it). Worked for me....but what do I know....?

Radio
June 26, 2007, 03:28
What happened to Mosin Guy??????

brownknees
June 26, 2007, 09:01
Based on only my experience (YMMV) with inch mag catches in metric recievers.
I put an inch catch in my SA rifle, doing as suggested, and also changing to the inch mag catch spring. It worked fine retaining magazines, but was super, extra tough to release them.
Now to be fair the spring was a really tight fit in the recess in the rifle, so I'm not 100% sure that it had actually bottomed in the hole. This in turn made the mag catch impossible to use as intended. The only way to depress it enough to drop a mag was to use the thumb of the left hand, while pulling against the magazine body.
I finally decided to be a heretic & re-install the metric spring & try that to see what the problem would be using this combination. It worked perfectly!
The mags will not release, or dump, and the mag catch is now usable with either the trigger finger of the right hand, or the thumb of the left.

There was a suggestion that the spring I was given with the inch catch was for either the trigger return, or sear, (I forget which), which was why it was to darn hard to get into the reciever (and remove), and why it was so strong.

I'm sure this has been posted before, but I've never been able to find it.
Why does the inch release need the inch spring? Is it something to do with the heavier mass of the inch release under recoil, or something else.

W.E.G.
June 26, 2007, 09:57
Originally posted by brownknees
I'm sure this has been posted before, but I've never been able to find it.
Why does the inch release need the inch spring? Is it something to do with the heavier mass of the inch release under recoil, or something else.

The spring-hole in the catch is deeper on the inch than the metric.

ce
June 26, 2007, 12:16
Sometimes the inch spring can be trimed to fit at optimum tension.

You can cut springs, it's OK, Ted's not here, so he won't ever know.

And besides, the detent spring from an AR15 can be cut to length, or maybe a plunger tube spring from a 1911, or a spring from someone's car, or anything that has a spring in it.

Just start tearing shit apart, looking for springs, and if you don't find any, search all those piles of Fuddgun parts at the next gunshow, and find a bunch of springs and try 'em out.

Try to find the most exotic spring you can, then make it work.

creator0203
June 26, 2007, 17:07
Guys, it has an Inch mag release with the inch spring. It grabs and releases the mag fine. I was jut wondering if putting the metric mag catch/release on it since it is a metric receiver would help any.
Fun times

brownknees
June 26, 2007, 19:20
Meanwhile, back on topic.:wink:
I don't think the actual catch will cause and problems mag-to-mag. I could see it not working with any mags, and needing a little fitting. But then I'd expect it to work with all mags(as mine does).
Maybe what you're seeing is minute differences mag-to-mag that are adding up to some good & some bad?
I tag my mags with those stickon vynyl letters/numbers. That way I can go troubleshooting individual mags as any problems show up.

Have you tried dummy rounds, cycling them with the action cover off by hand?
This might let you see something that's not obvious at high speed under a cover.

creator0203
June 26, 2007, 20:08
I have noticed a difference between the mags. The ones that dont work right have about .01-.05" less distance between the front part of the mag that grabs the receiver first when installing and the top of the mag.
Thanks for all the info guys. Ill get it figured out. hopefully smoothing the rails will help. Ill measure some mag fronts and take some extras with me next time to see if those hundreths of and inchers are causing the prob. Gunny get expensive shooting all this ammo to test things. Guess I should shoot up some of this ammo instead of staring at it. Fun times :D.