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combat engineer
June 24, 2007, 08:47
Okay, heres the deal, I just got an imbel barrel back from being shortened by moses. I didn't have my receiver yet so I couldn't check the timing before the barrel was shipped. I just turned the barrel on my receiver and it times to about 9 o'clock this is a pita. So can someone give the name of a machinist that knows rifles here in Phoenix that can shave the shoulder on this barrel. HELP!!

vmtz
June 24, 2007, 09:20
You don't need a machinist, you just need to shave the barrel shoulder with a file. There is a very good explanation about how to do it here in this forum. Check out the sticky on how CE builds CAI's.

Vince

SIG552
June 24, 2007, 09:32
Can you not shave the barrel with the WECSOG method? I have pirated a pic of Bandit's great site showing how this is done. It's the upper right hand corner of the pic.

SIG552

TerryN
June 24, 2007, 09:59
Originally posted by SIG552
Can you not shave the barrel with the WECSOG method? I have pirated a pic of Bandit's great site showing how this is done. It's the upper right hand corner of the pic.

SIG552

D'oh! That's so simple that it's brilliant!

Now why didn't I think of that?

SIG552
June 24, 2007, 10:43
I take no credit whatsoever for the method, it has been around for a while and was divised by a fellow FALaholic infintely more intelligent than I pretend to be :)

Hope it works,

SIG552 :fal:

ratas calientes
June 24, 2007, 10:55
What receiver do you have? Make sure you are bottoming out on the barrel shoulder, and not somewhere else. If you have a Century receiver, they are notorious for haveing rough threads that need to be chased out with a bottom tap.

IMBEL barrels, if used, can also have distorted threads, and can be difficult to hand time. These can be cleaned up with a thread die. If you use a split thread die, adjust the die so it takes off as little material as possible, check fit, then repeat. You don't want to take off too much material.

I highly recommend the sanding disk method for taking off shoulder material. It takes time, but works well. I used that method on my first build.

If you have a good setup to hold the barrel and receiver you can probably crank it down from the 10:00 position, or even "sooner," if you run out of patience. This is what I do. http://chilirat.com/emoticons/chilirat.gif

bykerhd
June 24, 2007, 11:03
If you use the sanding disc, you should probably use a piece of board, plywood should be good, behind the sanding disc to help keep it all square. Drill a hole in the board just larger than the barrel's thread diameter.
Remember that it is easier to take material off than it is to put it back on.

combat engineer
June 24, 2007, 11:12
I only wish my barrel timed as close as bandit's. My last build timed at about 10:30 and a file worked fine, but this is ridiculus!!

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j153/combatengineer/barrelandreceiver003.jpg

Gas block is perpendicular to the dam receiver.
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j153/combatengineer/barrelandreceiver002.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j153/combatengineer/barrelandreceiver001.jpg

This thing needs more than a shave it needs a haircut

ggiilliiee
June 24, 2007, 12:36
why do they call ya engineer ??? .....he he ...take it to a machinist ..he can run the cut barrel in between centers and re line bore the barrel.....deviation in the bore from the gun drill isnt a straight line ..cut it in he wrong TIR spot and youllbe one of the pros on here that just cant believe one of these will shoot farther tha 200 yards ...poor poor people .
i think if you take it to a machinist .put it in between centers ...roll it put a dial indicator on the barrel shoulder face and youll understand why you just spent alot of money cutting a barrel down the wrong way and or find out if your smurf really knows what hes doing ..
if there is runout . a hack saw would have produced the same results ....

and you got screwed ...

..i think the idea is in simpler form for the wesackers is the bullet needs to leave the barrel (inline with the rest of the rifle ) a concept few here understand ...kinda like a crankshaft in your car ..harmonic balancer area has to be perp and in line with the bore for the crank or your just drivin a ford......dribble ..dribble ....clank....clank...snaaaaaap...boooooom tinnnkllle ..wheres the tow truck ????

ggiilliiee
June 24, 2007, 12:41
why do they call ya engineer ??? .....he he ...take it to a machinist ..he can run the cut barrel in between centers and re line bore the barrel.....deviation in the bore from the gun drill isnt a straight line ..cut it in he wrong TIR spot and youllbe one of the pros on here that just cant believe one of these will shoot farther tha 200 yards ...poor poor people .
i think if you take it to a machinist .put it in between centers ...roll it put a dial indicator on the barrel shoulder face and youll understand why you just spent alot of money cutting a barrel down the wrong way and or find out if your smurf really knows what hes doing ..
if there is runout . a hack saw would have produced the same results ....

and you got screwed ...

..i think the idea is in simpler form for the wesackers is the bullet needs to leave the barrel (inline with the rest of the rifle ) a concept few here understand ...kinda like a crankshaft in your car ..harmonic balancer area has to be perp and in line with the bore for the crank or your just drivin a ford......dribble ..dribble ....clank....clank...snaaaaaap...boooooom tinnnkllle ..wheres the tow truck ????

jay.sharkbait
June 24, 2007, 12:43
Originally posted by ggiilliiee
why do they call ya engineer ??? .....he he ...take it to a machinist ..he can run the cut barrel in between centers and re line bore the barrel.....

Why would you "re line bore" the barrel?

Wouldn't that be hard on the rifling?

bait

SIG552
June 24, 2007, 12:45
Ggillililleellie,
I don't understand this. What do you mean by the "deviation in the bore from the gun drill isnt a straight line"?

SIG552

combat engineer
June 24, 2007, 13:04
W.E.G. I put an adjustable wrench on it and got it down further, about 9:30, There was still enough space to wedge a piece of paper in the gap but it won't go down to the barrel threads, just barely past the lip. If I crank it down it might get to 10:00. I might be able to get it with the sanding disc WECSOG technique. Just an aside for radio, it is a DSA type 1 receiver. I need to scrounge up some plywood and sanding discs. Any Idea on what grit I should start with for this exciting journey of discovery?

combat engineer
June 24, 2007, 13:17
Me thinks someone has started drinking way before noon on sunday. Ggiilliiee, I appreciate the helpful information and will work within those parameters when I am working on the shoulder. You have brought up some very valid points, I think we should get together and discuss them at length. I have a handle of Jim Beam that I haven't broken the seal on yet; We could probably come up with some earth shaking conclusions on the amount of water we have on planet earth, approximately 50 billion gallons for every person on the planet if we parceled it out equally.

Azrial
June 24, 2007, 15:32
The sanding-disk method worked for me. But, mine went to about 10:00 before getting too tight.

powermad
June 24, 2007, 16:03
I used a 36 grit disk and the recv'r stub.
Use some oil on the disk and thread the barrel onto the stub.

Turn it a few times and check. repeat as needed. It took me about 15 minutes to get it where it needed to be.

powermad
June 24, 2007, 16:42
Stub showing 270, 300, 330, 360 degrees

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m178/powermad69/P1000519.jpg

disk & stub

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m178/powermad69/P1000518.jpg

put together

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m178/powermad69/P1000517.jpg

combat engineer
June 24, 2007, 17:43
I believe I have clearance on the breech, I have not put it in a vice. When I used a adjustable wrench I was just using two hands and the wrench. I need to get to a big vice and put my barrel vise and receiver wrench on it to see where everything stops and then check the breech clearance, although I don't think the problem is on that end. Sorry If I wasn't clear in my post, I will post some pics of the breech.

gunplumber
June 24, 2007, 17:57
Originally posted by ggiilliiee
..take it to a machinist ..he can run the cut barrel in between centers and re line bore the barrel....blah blah blah

Once again, Ghillieslut is repeating the same old line of bullshit.

you cannot BORE anything that runs between centers. Duh!

here's a nice picture of ghilliesluts barrel. Shows what happens when you spin a bent barrel between centers. DUH!

Don't worry about the difference in alignment between the chamber and the barrel. IN his fantasy world its inconsequential

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/webpictures/falbbl06.jpg

Radio
June 24, 2007, 18:39
Ah, yes, once again, Ladies and Gentlemen-- we have had our ggiiggiillee Moment Of The Day
(Thanks, jay)

SIG552, don't try to understand ggiggiillee, Combat's got it nailed, except I would use a finer sippin' source, like straight home-made moonshine, aged one entire week to give it that mellow, smooth character. As I went down this thread, I was going to mention that gunplumber has previously blown away ggiiggiillee's machinist "skills" but I see he has already re-run a tiny portion of an earlier thread that explained all the silly errors more fully.

combat engineer, you are answering questions I haven't yet asked in a thread I hadn't yet read. Frankly, sir, that is just a little bit scary. :uhoh: :wink: Since my last barrelling was in 2002 I'm no longer sure if my DSAs timed "tighter" than my IMBELs, but my brother and I crushed on a beaut G1 barrel from maybe about 10:30 or so, it was a bit short-timed.

Since I lacked the resource of a Master Machinist at my elbow, such as ggiiggiillee :tongue: I used more "backyard" methods. First, I used Gary's triangular file, light strokes with lots of magic marker in between, followed by SIG552's (yes, he didn't invent the thing) sanding disk, backed up by powermad's receiver stub, although not with his fancy markings. Lather, rinse, repeat, until getting close, then a patient application of the sanding disk (using a new disk) to get that last thousandth or so, to get the shoulder as flat as I could get it, until proper hand-timing was achieved.

Gary, I don't think Combat is saying the breech has bottomed, just that he could slip a piece of paper into the OUTSIDE of the shoulder-to-receiver gap, but that the paper wouldn't go all the way down; the air gap was all on the outer circumference. That's my interpretation. Nonetheless, your concern should be noted by all barrellers... don't get so involved watching the shoulder that you forget all about the breech.

--Radio

Edgsmth
June 25, 2007, 18:11
Plain paper is .0015" thick. One degree on a 1-16 thread is .00017. Owing to the fact that there is more gap there than you can measure with a sheet of paper something else is holding the barrel back, probably by at least 10 degrees.

I think you need a machinist.

English Mike
June 25, 2007, 19:04
Nevermind - Gary's on it.

gunplumber
June 25, 2007, 19:17
i have run into a few imbels where the threads didn't go quite deep enough . just chased with tap.

gunnut1
June 30, 2007, 18:28
WECSOG method. and it might work. Turn the barrel in as far as it will go. tighen it up, then loosen it. Do it again. Do it again. Do it again till y0u have the barrel timed.

Ihad a similar problem with my DSA and a SA R1 barrel. Did the tighten loosen routein severl tiems and it really helped. Ok every, cover your eyes. When it loked about right, I took 4 foot cheater bar on the receiver wrench and timed it. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/kd5day/shocked4.gifShoots great!

Radio
July 01, 2007, 01:43
Okay... covered my eyes. Now typing by touch. Can I open them back up again yet????

--Radio

dougjones31
July 02, 2007, 16:26
I use the sanding disk method except I have modified a disk by superglueing the sanding disc to a compact disc then jb welding a plastic tubing to the disc (just big enough to clear the threaded portion of the barrel) the I have a little rig to attach to my drill. I use a 180 grit disc.

That drill sure does make things easy.

I did have an Imbel receiver just like that a long time ago. I was a little short og 9 o'clock, I just milled the face of the receiver. :uhoh: Yea...I was young and dumb then!:cool: