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June 11, 2007, 00:11
Sirs,
I have A DSA short gas system front end , Part # 00116TAC. I now have my DSA Type 2 upper receiver with out carry handle cut. I want to toque this barrel too this receiver. But I will need to remove the front sight and soldered gas block to put the barrel in the vice for the barrel torque.
I have read about using A wrench from very respected member on this sight
but I do not have one and have less than stellar results from using open end wrenches on other projects.
So...romove the gas block per Gunplumbers tape and index the barrel HOW?
Thank you for your addvice on my project.

Radio
June 11, 2007, 01:09
First, I LIKE it when you call me "sir". But you can skip that crap, I work for a living.

You have got a non-standard problem using that short gas system DSA barrel, probably with an StG short gas tube brazed on.

http://www.dsarms.com/images/00116TAC.gif

Chances are you will NOT be able to use a regular barrel vise. Sorry. But don't worry, there have been about a zillion barrels mounted on an FAL receiver that never even came within 100 miles of a barrel vise. That's what the barrel flats are for, and of all the FALs I've built, each and every blessed one of them was done with a slightly modified Craftsman 1-1/16" open-end wrench.

So... you don't trust that? Okay, try THIS.

Go to the scrap yard and pick up a good length of square bar stock... say, maybe 4 feet. Maybe something like 3/4" thick. Cut off maybe 4 inches from one end. Drill a hole about a half inch from the end of the main piece, and the same hole about a half inch from the end of the 4" piece. Stick a big honkin' 3" bolt through the holes, then mock the thing up around your barrel flats. See where we're going? Now you can figure out where you'll put the other holes through your two pieces and drop in a second 3" bolt. NOW you can tighten this thing to your barrel flats... powder the entire working area with barrel resin for a non-slip insurance... it ain't going anywhere. Chuck your receiver wrench in a big honkin' vise and crank away on your barreling tool.

The cost will be two 3" bolts and washers and nuts, your time, and whatever the square bar stock will set you back. This will be MUCH easier than having to screw around with the gas block, or pay somebody to screw around with the gas block.

I was going to build one of these things myself but instead I finished all my builds before then. Also, I never personally had problems with the open-end wrench, the trick is to PAY ATTENTION that it stays absolutely square (parallel) with the receiver face.

--Radio

elbo
June 11, 2007, 06:54
Originally posted by Radio
a zillion barrels mounted
--Radio

My IMBEL was put on with an open end wrench.
(and it's spelled 'Brazilian')

Bwana John
June 11, 2007, 09:15
But I will need to remove the front sight and soldered gas block to put the barrel in the vice for the barrel torque.
GP recomends taking off the gas block to install the barrel?
At least that way you dont have to remember the HG ring!

alcova
June 11, 2007, 13:40
I'm still trying to figure out how he's putting a ( big honkin' 3" bolt ) through 3/4' stock...the way he's saying it, it's 2 1/4" larger in Dia than the material he's putting it through :D

alcova

Radio
June 11, 2007, 20:57
Lotta comedians around here. :biggrin:

You really think that idea wouldn't work, Raspeguy? If you cranked it down to about 7000 ft-lbs, nice and durned tight? Oh, maybe I see, you are concerned that the bar stock, being wider than the barrel flats, during the torquing process would sorta "cam" its way off the flats toward the front of the barrel? Maybe I could see that. Of course, you could machine down the bar stock on one side to fit the flats width, maybe kill that problem. I'll admit I'm just throwing out ideas here.

I have also seen a picture of a modified open-end wrench where somebody drilled a friggin hole through the open end and secured it with a bolt to prevent spreading. Now THAT looked like a Rube Goldberg contraption!

arrow, lemme tell ya somethin'. I am 6'2", my brother is 6'4". We screwed a virtually brand-new G1 barrel onto a DSA Type-I receiver. The hand timing was a bit too tight, maybe 10:30, but I said the hell with it and we barreled it anyway. He was on the breaker bar attached to the receiver wrench, I was on my Craftsman open-end; our butts on the floor of my living room, feet together, each pulling for all he was worth. My wrench did not slip. AGAIN, I was VERY careful to make sure the wrench was totally, exactly parallel with the receiver face. Every single one of my builds has SUCCESSFULLY been with the use of an open end wrench on the barrel flats.

You might instead use a vise-mounted receiver wrench and maybe have a buddy or three sit on your workbench to provide a steady anchor, but the point is you can do this with nothing more than an old-fashioned open end, and some care.

--Radio

ce
June 12, 2007, 10:30
Such wailing and gnashing of teeth!

The pinnacle of consternation has been achieved, and the fury of its irrelevance is marked by its deleterious effect on progress.

Just cut the damn shoulder until it times to 11, and apply 120 foot pounds of torque to top dead center.

Not 7,000, not a Brazilian, not 400.

120.

You know what that feels like?

It feels like victory.

I could do it with a pipe wrench and a douchebag, just how long is it going to take for you to consummate this short pants romance?

Radio
June 12, 2007, 13:30
The pipe wrench he would crush into the hapless, helpless, innocent, screaming barrel. GRRRRRRR!!!!

The douchebag he would wear atop his head, to prove his stoopidfuquero-ness, and as a warning to others.

Flip-flops are optional.

--Radio

ce
June 12, 2007, 14:38
Me and my arrow.
Straight up and narrow.

There's a gunsmith in The Land of Point, if you're not comfortable with an open end wrench, send it to him.

Tell him Oblio sent you.

arrow
June 13, 2007, 04:31
Sirs, I always address people on this web sight in this manner to show respect for there knowledge and advise.
I am timing @ 10;30.11:00 I would guess, But As A union Millwright I have seen opened end (commercial ) wrenches slip on 2" plus bolts and round off screw flats leaving me to explain to the customer why this happened, Different animal from the custom ground wrenches that members here use I guess. Thank you for your advise on this matter and I just want to clarify that when I spoke of Gunplummer
It was in his instructional video about removing the gas block.

ce
June 13, 2007, 08:34
Dude, nobody but nobody removes a gas block, except the people who will jump in shortly saying they remove gas blocks.

It's too tight, too hard to get off, too hard to get back on, too hard to align, to hard to justify even futzing with it, and there is nothing in there that doesn't work that you have to fix.

If, after a cascade of failures, you manage to round the flats on your barrel with an open end wrench, it will remain forever hidden from view by the handguard ring, and will be revealed to no one if you just KEEP YOUR BIG MOUTH SHUT.

You won't forget the handguard ring, will you?

Do it.

Radio
June 13, 2007, 13:05
Well, under THAT reasoning, use the pipe wrench and be done with it. :wink:

A 1-1/16" open-end is just a smidgen too tight to fit onto the barrel flats. A few will grab a BFH and whack it on anyway, but most of us will take a file to one of the wrench flats and BARELY open it up. Should still need to be pounded onto the barrel flats, however. This is NOT your average wrench-to-SAE fit.

Make sure you keep the wrench square to the receiver face, and maybe re-seat the wrench onto the flats with an occasional hammer whack, and you'll be good to go.

--Radio