building your own 922 parts 50 percent rule?

[chromestarhustler]

so i get bored at work today and i decide to widdle me a new oversized charging handle from a chuck of round aluminum bar stock. then i decide to make a new retainer, from a bolt. and 2 new pins. i drill out the old rivet. get ready to install the new charging handle. darn need a new rivet. find some rivets, and ream some holes so i can get the whole set up back together again

ok here is the question. i have made from us materials
1. new charging knob
2. new rivet
3. new pin for retainer
4. new retainer
5. new pin for charging knob detent assembly

can i consider this a us made part now?
as only foreign made parts on it are now the rod, spring and detent ball.

[owlcreekok]

Last time this was discussed, IIRC somethng over a year ago, the answer is 'no'. My take was that ANY remaining imported sub-part in a "part" renders it disqualified as a "US" part. Too bad. I have turned any number of CH knobs and tossed them. The last one out of a live 20 mm case head. (don't ask)

:angel:

Re-reading what I posted, I need to clarify, I understand that you made the whole thing, not just a knob. I personally would call it a US Charging handle and the alphabet troops could carry on as they pleased.

[Edgsmth]

Once again, it is not US made parts that will get you in trouble. It is the foreign parts from the ATF list that matter.

As per your post you have only one foreign part, assuming you mean the gas rod. Detent balls and springs are not on the list.

For a FAL you need to worry about the stock set, barrel, upper receiver, lower receiver, gas piston, HTS, bolt, bolt carrier, muzzle device, mag body, mag follower, mag floorplate and charge handle.

For me it makes it easier to look at the foreign parts and not the US made parts.

I would think that your charge handle is entirely compliant if it is as you describe it. A rivet or roll pin do not a foreign part make.

Consider this, build your FAL with all foreign parts, remove the handgaurds (1 part dowm) and clamp two 2x4's on your barrel. Now make a 2x6 stock, don't have to be pretty. Remove the pistol grip. Remove the gas piston, bolt and carrier.

This rifle is now compliant.

As for the ATF ruling on your homemade charging handle, and if it as you describe it, my guess would be that it is a 922r part, having made the body alone from domestic materials.

Now, did that aluminum originate in Canada?

Why worry? If your rifle is as you say it is it is already compliant.

[W.E.G.]

Obey the ten-evil-parts rule.

"They" might enforce it someday.

[olsarg]

Don't think the Knob and rivet make it a US charging handle. Otherwise why not just buy the knob and rivet from tapco. The part the knob fits is the big nono. kind of like putting US butt plate on stock and calling it US.

[Cozmacozmy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Century cut import gas pistons in half and thread them back together to make them a "US" part?
Seems that if they can get away with that then you should be good...

[chromestarhustler]

gun has a us reciever, us hts, us stock, us hand guards, a thermomold mag, and waiting on the us semi only pistol grip. its just that i have customized and added all sorts of touches to this rifle. its 922 good. i was just wondering cause i rememer reading somewhere that if a certain percentage was american made it could be considered made in the usa. the reason i dont think you can just put on a rivet and knob and call it legal is the operating rod assembly (correctly called the charging handle assembly) has 8 parts, the slide body, the knob, the piece that actually pushes the slide back we will call the bolt engager, bolt engager retainer pin, knob rivet, knob retainer pin, spring and detent. so it can not be as cut and dry as something like a barrel thats well only one part. i dont need thge 922 part was just checking thou thanks for the help

[J. Armstrong]

Still an "evil" cocking handle.
Who cares ? You got plenty o' US goodies on it already :biggrin:

[elbo]

Originally posted by chromestarhustler
i was just wondering cause i rememer reading somewhere that if a certain percentage was american made it could be considered made in the usa.
Do not believe anything you do not verify at the ATF website. (subject to change)

[Radio]

Since nobody yet has specifically spelled out the answer to this question, the reason why your charging handle is NOT now a "US-manufactured" part is because the main body of this part is still foreign-made, regardless of whatever other doo-dah bling you've hung on it. All you have done is added a US-made pin or two, and turned a US-made handle. The host part is still foreign-made. THAT is why your CH has not turned into a 922r compliance part.

As Edgsmth mentioned, pins and springs are not really in the picture here. As olsarg mentioned, the knob isn't, either. In fact I rather like his analogy that just putting on a US-made buttpad does NOT make your buttstock magically US-made... the BODY is still foreign-made.

On the other hand, if you machined up your own charging handle from scratch, you could then put in foreign-made pins, ball detent, springs, rivet, and handle, and STILL have a US-made part. The same as if you put on foreign sling swivel and screws, foreign ferrule and foreign buttpad on your Ironwood buttstock... it will STILL be a US-made buttstock and therefore eligible for 922r compliance.

--Radio

[chromestarhustler]

thanks radio, got it, the evil part is the main body and all the little widgets are just stuff to make it worky. i will pass on making my own op rod as the mill is boxed up and in deep storage waiting for the new shop to be built.

[gunplumber]

well, not to throw too much gas on the fire, but the law don't say nothin bout no charging handle.

It says "op rod".

Now Ed Owens, now gone, decided that a bicycle is a tomato and an cocking handle is an op rod.

Now the law don't say "complete op rod assembly" so how does it become "complete cocking handle assembly"

Now I ain't gonna go so far as one company that thinks shortening an StG flash hider a couple inches makes it US made, or chopping a barrel to 16" makes it US made, but I ain't ready to throw no definitive "naughty boys" at the cocking HANDLE.

Whats a handle? Its somthin you grab onto - and its the knob that you grab onto ain't it?

[Andy the Aussie]

Originally posted by gunplumber
and its the knob that you grab onto ain't it? ....if one was of lower moral and civil standards that I, a whole silly thread could start on this comment alone.

Enough from the peanut gallery though.

Andy

[Radio]

Thanks, gunplumber you would throw THAT into the mix... and we ARE discussing the one part on the FAL which really has no business being included in the 922r list, except that a "tomato has been ruled to be a bicycle". :rofl:

The bottom, bottom line is that, to date, nobody has yet been prosecuted solely on a 922r violation. And no matter WHAT we decide is square here, the BARF or your friendly DA will change the rules on you, anyway. :mad:

--Radio

[AlohaRover]

Chromestar,
why not just write a letter to the BATFE and ask? Only costs the stamp (better send it soon :) )

[Abominog]

The answer to "what constitues US made" I had posted somewhere within the last six months. I'm too sick right now to search for it, so you'll have to do it yourself.

ATF won't answer that it's DOC territory.

[chromestarhustler]

modification of a partially or nearly complete foreign product in the United States will not result in the substantial
transformation of such product and it remains the product of a foreign country.

thanks

[gunplumber]

some use the "value added" clause of the excise tax fiasco.

"I painted it black, now its US made"

The reason not to write a letter, is do you really want some affirmative action loser who washed out of every other federal agency to make an arbitrary 4:30 on Friday decision that will affect tens of thousands of people and a hundred thousand rifles?

[ftierson]

Originally posted by gunplumber
The reason not to write a letter, is do you really want some affirmative action loser who washed out of every other federal agency to make an arbitrary 4:30 on Friday decision that will affect tens of thousands of people and a hundred thousand rifles?

What Mark says...

Also, we can make up all the interpretations that we want but, when the rubber meets the road, it's only the BATFE's interpretation that counts...

It's kinda like being 50% pregnant...

Can you say, "Not tonight, Bubba. I have a headache"?

Forrest

[ElRon]

Can you say, "Not tonight, Bubba. I have a headache"?

You might not even make it to roll in Sweet Bubba's arms. Isn't it about time for another BATF/FBI/Justice Dept. bloodletting? Been awhile.

[justashooter]

the answer, my friends, has to do with purpose and suitability.

if you start with a foreign made part, and turn it into something that is no longer suitable for the original purpose, you have made it into a "US made part", suitable for another purpose. if you have not, then you have merely dolled up a foreign part that retains it's original utility.

[gunplumber]

Originally posted by justashooter
the answer, my friends, has to do with purpose and suitability.

if you start with a foreign made part, and turn it into something that is no longer suitable for the original purpose, you have made it into a "US made part", suitable for another purpose. if you have not, then you have merely dolled up a foreign part that retains it's original utility.

Sounds good. Please cite the federal regulation or ATF policy letter to which you are referring.