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Ship Ahoy
May 06, 2007, 07:43
This is the one I really like, and think I'll be buying real soon. Vector Arms ,AK V 47 , Classic
atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=9
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/ShipAhoy/AKV47.jpg


Or possibly this one. AKM 47RM Rifle
http://atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=275
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/ShipAhoy/AKM47RMRifle.jpg


I found a web site that has the same AK I found locally. Can anyone tell me if this is a good AK?
It's at www.classicarms.us/ AK75-SST
It's the NEW AK-75 STRAIGHT STOCK TACTICAL 7.62X39

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/ShipAhoy/AK-75STRAIGHTSTOCKTACTICAL.gif

wolfsburgbob
May 06, 2007, 08:02
If your criteria is price,...then you can not beat a simple Romanian 7.62x39 SAR-1. If you have trouble finding a SAR-1 then a find a WASR-1. They will both be below $500 by far.

I prefer the SAR as they were not modified from a single stack into a double stack here in the USA. Not that the conversion is any problem at all, just that a SAR is an original double stack and will hold value better.

The receivers on the Romanian AKs are manufactured by a bonified ex-Combloc nation by a factory that makes AKs for their military. With all of the issues I have seen lately with ejectors wearing badly in SOME domestic (US) receivered rifles after a few thousand rounds, I am sliding back to my preferance for Commie factory manufactured AKs, with tested and true receivers.


But here's the best bet....BY FAR!........

Since the shipping, sales tax, and maybe the transfer fees with push your mentioned $500 guns nearer $600.....

....sell your Dog, your Cat..or your "other".... take that extra $100 and wait for a good deal to come along on a <b>Norinco Chinese AK</b>. I have seen normal full stock guns going in the $600 range lately at the Gun Shows. Underfolders and sidefolders make the price skyrocket.



The <b>Chinese</b> rifles are best in the long run. By far. They will ALWAYS hold their value.

They are TOUGH as NAILS! Thicker receivers!

<b>If you don't believe me,...go to a Gun Show and tell someone you have TWO rifles to SELL, but they are outside in your car's trunk.....

Rifle #1 is one of your choices so far.
Rifle #2 is a Norinco Chinese Fullstock AK.

Watch their EYES,....Listen to what they SAY.</b>

:wink:

PS,...Just say,..<b>MAO!</b>

Azrial
May 07, 2007, 02:27
I am no huge AK exspert, but I would have to say, the Chinese seems like better steel.

1 old 0311
May 07, 2007, 10:46
Go with one of the Yugos from Classic. Great price, great rifle.

1 old 0311
May 07, 2007, 10:48
Go with one of the M70's from Classic.

MAJ MALFUNCTION
May 11, 2007, 05:18
I own one of the AK 47 RMs in the middle picture (made by Lancaster and sold by Atlantic).

Great gun! Very well made and very good deal for the price. It reminds me of the real AKs that I've encountered/used while deployed to SWA more than any other domestic gun I've seen.

dstorm1911
May 11, 2007, 08:35
+1 On a Yugo fixed stock, they are built on a fully heat treated NDS reciever 1.5 mm thick ya get milled AK performance with a stamped reciever plus the heavier RPK front trunion in case ya feel like launchin grenades. The barrels are new USA made hammer forged Green mtn barrels (they been making custom sporter and target rifle barrels for decades) The only thing Century can screw up is getting the sight blocks straight so look at em if they are straight your good to go, I can't even build one for what they are selling em for, (just did 6 fixed stock and 6 underfolders for my own collection with new Zastava barrels and if I'd been buildin em for a customer the labor and machine time alone woulda come to more than Century is gettin for the whole rifle!) A WASR/SAR doesn't even come close quality wise to any ya have listed. and really not worth the $100 ya'd save on purchase price in the long run.

The Chicoms used to be considered the best ya could get simply because they were the only ones that came with a 1.6 mm thick reciever but those days are past, they are not heat treated at all (the Chinese felt it was not needed due to the thicker metal) meterologically the recievers are softer steel a few weeks ago my buddy at Omega weapons Systems got a new hardness tester and well we hadda play with it...... he has tons of Norincos he imported back when they were legal to import as well as still in the cosmoline new parts like bolts, bolt carriers etc... well we started playing and were amazed at how soft the recievers are compared to any others on the market they tested out at around a 38 on the rockwell scale! The chicom bolts all brand new we found huge variations from bolt to bolt even in the same lots.... he has 10 cases of em and after a few from the same case showing no real consistancy we started opening up the sealed cases and same thing..........

The chinese just don't have the meteralogical advantage ya get with the Yugo's being offered today

Lancaster consulting is building some very nice kit guns, and really good people to deal with...

Bugs
May 11, 2007, 10:39
I have to go with Bob on the Chi-com rifles. Great rifles, and the AMK 90s are way under valued. You can change out the stocks and other 922r parts when your wallet allows.

Bugs

FTW2012
May 11, 2007, 14:36
Is there a "bad" AK?
Rag heads are building them in tents in the desert, not much to putting one together.
You can home build one for $200 or less!

Edgsmth
May 11, 2007, 20:49
The two Romys, or the Yugo and Romy, or the Yugo RPK and Romy you build yourself.

DC
May 12, 2007, 22:19
Originally posted by dstorm1911
+1 On a Yugo fixed stock, they are built on a fully heat treated NDS reciever 1.5 mm thick ya get milled AK performance with a stamped reciever plus the heavier RPK front trunion in case ya feel like launchin grenades. The barrels are new USA made hammer forged Green mtn barrels (they been making custom sporter and target rifle barrels for decades)

are the barrels chrome lined? I won't have an AK that isn't.

wolfsburgbob
May 13, 2007, 05:59
Originally posted by DC


are the barrels chrome lined? I won't have an AK that isn't.

No they are not Chromed.

The Yugo rifles, both AK and SKS, recently imported were SFOR/KFOR/LSMFT turn-ins and true battlefield pickups from the recent wars in the former Yugoslavia. The rifles were used hard, cleaned rarely, and stored for a period of time after collection without proper maintainence. This is why the majority of kits had "sewer pipes" for bores.

With the present and probable future of the military caliber ammo situation, I agree on your preference for chrome-lined.

raeldridge
May 13, 2007, 09:49
gratuitous BTT for the SAR-1's, if you can find one affordable. they do have chrome-lined barrels, at least the one I have does. may have to stick an eyeball on it to make sure the sights are not canted, but that's easily fixed and is a bargaining point if you're buying.

heard there are good chi-comms and bad chi-comms. appears everyone else's opinions bear that out also. looks like the quality of the different factories vary, or maybe just the current batch of slave labor is not performing up to par.

I prefer the Sovbloc stuff. we 'beat' them fair and square, least we could do is buy their old stuff.

and the majority of their women are much, much hotter.

dstorm1911
May 13, 2007, 22:56
nope not chrome lined, but somehow all 34 kits I got (Yugo underfolders) had nice shiny bores nonethe less, and since the ready made Century ones have brand new green mountain barrels....... they are shiny too, Now that there is NO milsurplus 7.62x39 being produced with corrossive primers its really a non issue however somehow my Enfields and mausers mas 36s etc... all didn't have chrome lined barrels either and ate a steady diet of nothin but corrosive ammo yet still have shiny bores........... now how did that happen?

What ya do get however is a gun built from actual milspec parts rather than the reject parts that did not meet milspec requirements as is the case with the SAR and WASR rifles....... this is why they are so dirt cheap, they get the barrels with the flawed chrome linings, the trunions that failed heat treat etc.... every component is from the reject bins.......... been to Cugir where the military spec rifles are built and been to Sadar where the WASR/SAR are built.......... thats why ya will NEVER find a Cugir military acceptance stamp on any WASR or SAR trunion.......... they didn't make the grade..... but now if ya go with G kit build or an original REAL GP (they will have that lovely arrow in a triangle prior to 1976 for a 7.62x39 or the 5.45 trunion after 1976 which is a triangle without arrow on the left side of the trunion to signify an actual military spec rifle) then ya can have the real mil-spec quality rifle...........

Now as far as chicom, used to be the best when the only way to get a 1.6 mm reciever was a custom built GT recievered rifle, but well the recievers are not heat treated and as my partner used to be onea the largest importers in AZ of chicom rifles we still got tons an tons of factory sealed parts for em........... last month we got to playin withj a new Rockwell hardness tester......... the new unissued Chicom bolt lugs ranged from 35 to 56 on the hardness tests (boy talk bout consistency!!) the bolt carriers well they were all over the page some extremally hard other like they were annealed, the recievers were consistant however at 36-38 compared to the Nodak spuds Yugo 1.5 mm reciever which is a consistant 52 at any point ya test on the reciever.............. The yugo underfolder is much much more comfortable as the geometry is a straight line with the bore rather than dropping like the norinco does it is also 1.5" longer.......

Now the cool part is that Bob there was dumpin polish kits just a few months ago like they were goin outa style, why not mention that the poster could also get a polish kit built gun (many built on kits Bob sold) for around the $400 as well? Again full milspec rather than reject parts and chrome lined bore even though ya can't get corrosive 7.62x39 in America anymore unless like myself ya stocked up in the early 90s on Chicom surplus to the tune of 50,000 rnds and are still usin it (and nope none of my Yugo barrels have been istantly dissolved as a result either still mirror shiny and original bores...... I'm keepin my new Zastava barrels till I actually need em in a few years before installin em) otherwise in a rifle to be used in the USA.......... nothin but non-corrosive ammo available and as anyone knows non-chrome lined are more accurate, thats why ya will never ever see a chrome lined bench rest barrel.............

But hell everyone has choices........... me I only been buildin AKs for 15 years, collectin milsurps (1800 so far in the rifles alone as of this year) for 34 opps tommorow makes 35 years......... ain't got a frosted pitted bore in the bunch with millions of rnds of corrosive milsurps.......... but hey maybe its just a few folks who don't know how to clean a rifle after all..... how old are the 91/30 mosin nagants folks are buyin with shiny bores? ohhh and nothin but corrosive ammo too............. the trashed Yugo barrels were a result of bein left on the battle fields for years then stacked in warehouses without gettin cleaned first..... but then your not lookin at buyin a kit with an original barrel your buyin a ready made Yugo with a brand new match grade barrel in it........ so hell it surly can't hold up as long as a 70 year old mosin nagant barrel or a 1893 mauser barrel etc... all of which were fed a steady diet of corrosive ammo so yea toss the facts out the window an go with what Bob has to say ya MUST have a chrome lined bore or it ain't worth squat :rolleyes:

wolfsburgbob
May 14, 2007, 07:31
Originally posted by dstorm1911
........ so hell it surly can't hold up as long as a 70 year old mosin nagant barrel or a 1893 mauser barrel etc... all of which were fed a steady diet of corrosive ammo so yea toss the facts out the window an go with what Bob has to say ya MUST have a chrome lined bore or it ain't worth squat :rolleyes:

I agree with your comments, as long as the perspective is one of a thirty-five year collector/sales/trader....and one who understands the issues as a person with long term experience should understand them . Quality of original manufacture, original materials used, maintainance when issued and used, storage precautions and preservation...on and on and on.

Mosins?...NICE Mosins?....Brand New to Worthless Junk. I've bought/sold/traded/ collected them all. New Polish M44s from UP-NORTH?...Ummmmnnn. Finnish M-39s,...Oh yeah.

Now,...The world is AWASH with $75 boat oars.

(I'll give you a seven hundred page essay on Mosin-Nagants. Better yet, that is a phone call topic.)


I'll move along,,....

The queston posed here by the ORIGINAL POSTER was (at least to me) more than just "WHAT TO BUY TODAY?,..It was also, as always,... "WHAT WILL BE THE BEST RIFLE TO SELL,....LATER"?

Maybe I am wrong with my position with regards to this man's question , but with thirty years as a NASD licensed broker of selling Stocks, Bonds, and Mutual Funds, I know I have a responsibility to recommend "suitable" product. Suitable product means a product that is not only acceptable within the guidelines of the laws, but one that "suits' the client's needs as in NOW and in the FUTURE!


With that in mind,...

1) I have bought/sold/traded/shot/collected and sold tons and tons of this shit for over thirty years. All of it. From the days of the Valmets and Lapua, on to Keng's and copper wash, up to today's Pomy, Polish, and Yugo AKs with Barnaul and various Mil-surp.

2) I see the very same people and the same product I just sold them moving in and out of my door, the shows, and all over these boards in a "Secondary Market". This is a result of years of "accumulated" dealings.

3) The buyers that come to me always want the best. Always. Nobody has EVER asked me, "Bob,..Got any common run of the mill cheap crap that is hard to sell?"

4) When the AK buyer decides he needs to sell his AK for any reason, or because "the baby needs new shoes" (or Beer), that buyer will (historically)....want his money back.

5) Right now I have a growing client driven "Secondary Market" where I am now selling items FOR my past customers who now wish to SELL what they bought from me a year or so ago. I have no problem selling the BEST for MORE that I originally sold it. MUCH MORE!

6)) Every time that an average buyer asks me about a RIFLE or a KIT ( AK or FAL) that I am selling, the questions have ALWAYS been the same.....over and over and over again.....

a) Matching numbers?
b) Chrome Bore?
c) Matching numbers?
d) Chrome bore?
e) BTW,..CHROME BORE?

(If the Yugoslavians (Serbians) could have GOTTEN chrome from Russia in the old days, they would have used it as they use it now!)

BTW,..Aren't the M-16s and M-4s CHROMED? We don't use CORROSIVE ammo. Why then CHROME?



If you want a an AK.....and you might want to SELL it someday,...I suggest that you not waste time with anything that does not pass the questions that I have stated above,... UNLESS you want to live with that BITCH for a LONG LONG TIME!

LIKE A WIFE!

:wink:


PS,..If you want to be part of the "bore discussion",..buy a $75 boat oar. :rolleyes:

dstorm1911
May 14, 2007, 09:30
Bob, I've still got all 3 of the polish rifles I built from your kits on NDS recievers, sorry ya won't be gettin to resale them as they aren't going anyplace... As far as why the military chromes bores still......... because of harsh military conditions and in the event we got to war in a humid environment rather than the desert... however here in the states...... got plenty of oppertunity to clean your gun after shooting and if ya don't..... well ya probably aren't enough of a shooter to hang onto it very long anyway....

List of what folks ask who don't know anything about AKs other than point and shoot........ otherwise they wouldn't need to ask any of the questions ya listed they would already know the answers, I don't know where your findin all those $75 boat oars........ Ya might wanna get some better suppliers for the mosins cause man even the T-53s a couple thousand I helped sort weren't that bad and they NEVER got cleaned by the chinese no rearsenalling etc... the rearsenaled Russian mosin nagants generally are all nice shiny bores at least the 3-4,000 I've went through (I know outa the 60,000 Century ordered that ain't a drop in the bucket) As far as mausers I've personally got a few hundred all with very nice bores even my Yugo built ones......... wonder how in the world that happened all these folks postin bout their shiny bored yugo mausers an all? Now I've got 23 Hungarian and Styer M95s that one has a frosted bore very light but ya can just see it at the muzzle the rest are really nice and these were handme downs that got handed down and handed down from one army to the next these rifles been captured and re-captured by bout every European country that ever thought bout goin to war yet they are still goin strong today no chrome lining no careful cleaning nada but yet people are gettin em right as we speak and going oh... wow its got a clean shiny bore!!

How is this happening? Now since none of em are chrome lined shouldn't they all be complete sewer pipes? Not one M95 sold is an unissued rifle yet........

hmmmm ya know personally ya must have gotten a clientel these days of complete newbies..... the more I look at your list of questions thats gotta be it cause EVERYONE who has even looked up "AK47" on the net knows the Yugo is the ONLY AK ever produced without a chromed bore (and yet they still keep going) anyone but a complete newbi would not have to ask any of the questions ya have listed and as these are the most likally to be talked into a WASR/SAR piece of junk........

So how many folks wanna start sellin off their L1A1s cheap? FALs? G3s? CETMES? ohhhh come on no chrome bores there either can't be worth more than say $200 each for them junkers and ya know what I'll buy em all at that price cause well........... none of my non-chrome bores have dissintigrated so I'm willin to take the gamble but since as Bob says they have zero resale value ya'll will be stuck with them CETMEs and G3s L1A1s for a good long time unless ya unload em on me for say $100 each hell I gotta have a profit margin here don't I???

ANYONE WANTIN TO DUMP THOSE NON CHROME BORE FALS, L1A1S, G3S AND CETMES!!! $100 ea just shoot me a pm and yoyr cash will be on its way.......... Bob has done shown ya that ya can't get rid of em otherwise cause no chromed bore so I'm doin ya a favor here :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

I'll even buy up your Non-chrome bored Garands for well Bob hows $250 ea sound? thats fair as they are just junkers anyhow right?

wolfsburgbob
May 14, 2007, 10:48
Originally posted by dstorm1911
Bob, .......


hmmmm ya know personally ya must have gotten a clientel these days of complete newbies..... the more I look at your list of questions thats gotta be it cause <font color=red>EVERYONE</font> who has even looked up<font color=red> "AK47"</font> on the net knows the <font color=red>Yugo</font> is the <font color=red>ONLY AK ever produced without a chromed bore </font>(and yet they still keep going)........

Oh it is?

Hey, go look up <b>"AK-47 WITHOUT CHROME BORES"?</b>... EVERYBODY knows you will ALSO find,..<font color=red><b>VALMET</b></font>!

(...but EVERYBODY KNOWS the Finns will get off their asses and maintain their damned weapons!)

Originally posted by dstorm1911
Bob, .......

I'll even buy up your Non-chrome bored Garands for well Bob hows $250 ea sound? thats fair as they are just junkers anyhow right?

Now hold it!

We were gentlemanly discussing AKs,...as in "THE BEST AK for under $500",..not discussing CHROME/ NO CHROME or ....<b>DOMESTIC $250 BOAT OARS</b>!

:wink:

PS,..BTW,..Your buddys at CENTURY used to have CRATE upon CRATE of the most BEAUTIFUL BRAND, BRAND, BRAND NEW POLISH M-44 Mosins you ever done did wanna see!

Not CRAPPY RE-FURBS with "Mine is PERFECT,..Oh SORRY,..YOURS SUCKS" bores.

NO IMPORT MARKS EITHER!

Well,..so what if that WAS 25 years ago!

richbug
May 14, 2007, 13:49
Originally posted by FTW2012
Is there a "bad" AK?
Rag heads are building them in tents in the desert, not much to putting one together.
You can home build one for $200 or less!

I have $180 in my most recent one and includes a store bought receiver, G kit, compliance parts, and 2 mags

dstorm1911
May 15, 2007, 07:53
Originally posted by wolfsburgbob


Oh it is?

Hey, go look up <b>"AK-47 WITHOUT CHROME BORES"?</b>... EVERYBODY knows you will ALSO find,..<font color=red><b>VALMET</b></font>!

(...but EVERYBODY KNOWS the Finns will get off their asses and maintain their damned weapons!)



Now hold it!

We were gentlemanly discussing AKs,...as in "THE BEST AK for under $500",..not discussing CHROME/ NO CHROME or ....<b>DOMESTIC $250 BOAT OARS</b>!

:wink:

PS,..BTW,..Your buddys at CENTURY used to have CRATE upon CRATE of the most BEAUTIFUL BRAND, BRAND, BRAND NEW POLISH M-44 Mosins you ever done did wanna see!

Not CRAPPY RE-FURBS with "Mine is PERFECT,..Oh SORRY,..YOURS SUCKS" bores.

NO IMPORT MARKS EITHER!

Well,..so what if that WAS 25 years ago!

Ahhh yes Valmet, I usually leave em out as technically speaking they aren't an AK plus most lookin for a cheap AK would have a stroke lookin at half the price tag.....

Won't find me wavin any flags for Century, I actually like the AK platform but what they've done with their $13 apiece reject bin WASRs has caused many folks who if they had gotten to actually start out with a quality MIL-Spec rifle instead to get a bad idea of what AKs really can do etc... its like all those who just assume that someone talkin bout a "Rommy" is only meaning a WASR/SAR ......... these folks don't even understand that no in fact most of the AKs used around the world are actually the contract MIL-SPEC version of the "GP" series Romanian military rifle, that the junk Century imports as the WASR in no way other than general appearance represents a Real MIL-Spec AK but rather is built from the cr@p dumped from military grade production rifles in some cases its more like diahrea , That Century pays $13 ea. for these things built from ALL reject parts and when someone starts touting "ohhh but its got a chrome bore so its gotta be better" I bout choke.......... yep mostly chrome lined... the barrels used are the ones that fail milspec inspection most commonly due to improperly applied chrome lining!! But ya know folks lookin at em over the counter who really don't know squat other than "its an AK" also don't know enough to understand that the defective chrome lining in that WASR will be worn offa the lands within not really too many rnds as its usually caught at the first plating as being bad usually because the electrolites have degenerated in the chroming tanks but a few thousand barrels might go through before its caught and corrected.. but these folks will go on bout chrome bores etc... not even realizing that the one they are touting is only still shiny cause it never gets any corrosive ammo here in the USA,

These same people thinking they really do have an AK based rifle rather than what it really is, will start talkin bout how AKs are total crap, can't hit the broadside of a barn etc... or constantly jam loose mags hobbled together junk.......... cause of their experiences with that reject WASR they'll never even get a chance to see the difference a REAL Milspec AK is compared to that WASR they wasted $350 on.........

Or ya point em at the Yugo, if they are a builder they won't bother with Century they'll just get a kit and if need be a new barrel and build it themselves, but even if they have to buy a ready built one the ones Century is building are a best buy, the only thing they really can screw up is gettin the sights straight on the new barrel, NODAK predrilled the recievers so Century can't mess up anything there, they are useing KVAR rivets (bulgarian) so no probs there, The GM barrels are as close to a match grade barrel as ya will find in ANY military based rifle it deffinetly beats out the junk slapped in the front end of bout 85% of the commercial ARs out there touting match quality etc... I suppose Century could screw up drilling the gas port but I haven't seen it happen yet, All the rest of the parts are 100% Yugo military spec.........

All currently sellin for around $449.00 through most online vendors now for that $100 dif.. why I mean WHY even consider anything less as a first AK? now if the quality between a WASR/SAR and Yugo was even close it might be a reason to think bout savin the $100 but hell they are miles apart completally at opposite ends of the universe other than Century slappin their name on both............

well gotta run, time to go make the AKs :biggrin:

Ya'll have fun, me I'm hopein we either get the coolers fixed in the shop today or Tucson gets below the 109 degrees it was yesterday!!

Ship Ahoy
May 15, 2007, 15:11
Originally posted by wolfsburgbob


The queston posed here by the ORIGINAL POSTER was (at least to me) more than just "WHAT TO BUY TODAY?,..It was also, as always,... "WHAT WILL BE THE BEST RIFLE TO SELL,....LATER"?

Maybe I am wrong with my position with regards to this man's question

Sorry Bob I am the Original Poster of this thread and I don't buy guns to sell them later. I also don't care if it's barrel is chromed or not, because I take very good care of my firearms by cleaning after every range trip.

My original question was about three specific rifles not any other ones. I have ruled out the bottom picture (AK75-SST) and will probably buy the Vector pictured on top. Also might consider that $$449.00 Yugo dstorm1911 mentioned if he'd give me a link.

I'm not looking for a museum grade AK, just a shooter. My museum piece is a DS Arms SA-58 carbine which I shoot often and no dstorm1911 you can't have it.

I thank you both for your comments but please lets end this argument. Thanks.

dstorm1911
May 15, 2007, 19:45
Ship, here ya go for the link, but if ya shop around ya can probably get an even better deal yet..

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=87

Checkout the AK dedicated sight, akfiles.com kinda the sister site to Falfiles

Ya can read tons of reviews on all your choices, the Yugo has been the runaway favorite ever since Nodak came out with recievers so we all could finally get our kits built then Century turned around an horned in on all our buildin by doin their own now we can't even build em for what Century sells em for

BTW, The last one on your list is just a WASR with different furniture, all of your AK choices can fit the same apperance the differences are that the two ya have at the top are on standard 1 mm recievers, if ya look at the reciever mag area ya will notice the lil dimples, thats per the original stamped reciever pattern an easy way to spot a WASR in wolfs clothing is the lack of dimples right off the bat, any that don't have em just walk away... (Theres more to it but thats a fast way to identify em) ya can dress up any AK to look like the ones ya have pictured, the Yugo is the exception as it is designed to also launch grenades so it uses different furniture to fit the longer gas system and the Yugoslavians were generally the same size/build as the average American so they used longer stocks for a more comfortable fit while shooting.... However if ya want pretty get the fixed stock Yugo then oil the teak wood it'll amaze ya how pretty it comes out...

I've got over 300 different AKs in my personal collection, I've setup a couple like the Classic arms "tacticool" (but mine are actually functional and use real M4 stocks not the tapco junk I milled my own Alluminum adapters) I've got em all original, got 3 NFA full autos exactly as the came outa Vietnam, etc.... lots to choose from but latelly onea the 3 Yugo underfolders gets used the most on every sunday shootout (we invite close to 40 people over to our place on Sundays, setup a cr@pload of guns, whatever strikes my fancy the night before a few NFA toys etc... barbeque an let folks have fun blowin stuff up on our range) Everyone really seems to enjoy the Yugo's the most the VZ58s are the second favorite on the AK table, Alota the folks enjoy the NFA AKs but these aren't an option for you so....

EVERYONE likes the AKs I've built as hybrid M4s but all of mine have 8 oz mercury recoil bufferes in the stock tubes, zero recoil plus I usually put 75 rnd Norinco drums on em which are always a favorite.......

The Black Yugo Underfolder could easily fill the bill for the look of your 3rd pic, ANY other AK built on a NODAK reciever can look like your first two choices....... the furniture is universal......

Ship Ahoy
May 16, 2007, 05:33
Thanks dstorm1911.

A friend is getting a Century AK. Once I shoot his and he's happy with it then I may get one. If not then the Vector is mine. Do you like Vectors? It's the picture on top.

dstorm1911
May 16, 2007, 08:17
Originally posted by Ship Ahoy
Thanks dstorm1911.

A friend is getting a Century AK. Once I shoot his and he's happy with it then I may get one. If not then the Vector is mine. Do you like Vectors? It's the picture on top.

Once upon a time, they are a quality rifle but for the price these days ya can easily match em for less, All of mine are built by me as I don't just assemble em, I bring all of the components into spec first, I;ve tossed more than a few bolts or bolt carriers and replaced em with new because the original could not be remachined to get it perfectly in spec ie; bolt lug contact etc.. I have an entire inventory of new still in cosmoiline military components so its not difficult to be picky bout the quality, personally I'd take a kit built on a NODAK reciever by a competent pro builder over the Vector they are nice but they are not doing any special fitting etc.. they are simply assembling the parts and for the $$ ya can get a same quality base gun for around $450 or so The polish kits Bob was selling were brand new unissued guns many bought similar kits then built them on quality NODAK or Global recievers and now are sellin em in the $450 price range at most gun shows, Lancaster consoulting is building some very nice Romanian, polish and Hungarian kits in that price range...

The Vectors still a 1 mm reciever based rifle there really isn't much anyone can do to improve the basic European AK other than to go to a stiffer heavier reciever and put more work into fit and finish, thats why I recomend the Yugos to folks, for the price tag its got the best reciever ya can get without steppin up to a milled AK (a lil outa your $500 budget) and the fit/finish is very nice even on original military wood etc.. I don't know bout the new black plastic all of mine Are in the original teak wood as they were built by me from kits. Vectors used to be very well fitted but a few I've ran into latelly look more and more like assembly line guns... and if thats all your buyin for the extra $$ might as well get one for less.... All of my standard AKs get either Ironwood designes custom stock sets ($100) which are super nice or I refinish all the wood on them myself which tends to come out really nice as well usually........ ya can make any AK look like the one on top in fact many of the polish AKs with the laminated wood are just plain beutiful And I've seen some Romanian "G" kit builds with refinished wood that will just take your breath away.....

Quality wise the vector and a NODAK recievered kit gun ya are gonna have a hard time tellin em apart, all of the components are the same, same specs etc... just a price difference, make sure your buddy isn't refferin to gettin a "Century" as in WASR, if he's gettin a yugo ya'll notice right off the bat how much solider it feels than ANY 1mm recievered rifle the reciever itself is only 4 ounces heavier but its also got a heavier duty RPK front trunion instead of the smaller standard AK front trunion, it has a heavier barrel and the TEAK wood itself is heavier than found on most standard AKs, if ya can look for any normal AK to at least hold and compare........ ya'll see why they win out over the Vectors and Arsenals etc... as far as most shooters are concerned...

Ship Ahoy
May 16, 2007, 18:51
Thanks again storm I appreciate you sharing your knowledge on AKs. Let me know if you ever need any info on hot fudge Sundays, it's my area of expertise. LOL

DC
May 16, 2007, 21:45
I want to thank you to dstorm1911 and you Ship Ahoy for starting this thread. I've learned more here than I did in months of hanging around a particular AK site a few years ago (but I really do like my SAR-3).

Now I just have to decide on Yugo underfolder or fixed. A friend has a preban Chinese underfolder that isn't the most comfortable thing to put a cheek on and I figure the Yugo is the same way. I like the Romanian side folder on my SAR-3. Any thoughts?

dstorm1911
May 17, 2007, 08:48
Originally posted by DC
I want to thank you to dstorm1911 and you Ship Ahoy for starting this thread. I've learned more here than I did in months of hanging around a particular AK site a few years ago (but I really do like my SAR-3).

Now I just have to decide on Yugo underfolder or fixed. A friend has a preban Chinese underfolder that isn't the most comfortable thing to put a cheek on and I figure the Yugo is the same way. I like the Romanian side folder on my SAR-3. Any thoughts?

Actually the Yugo underfolder is much more comfortable than the Chinese version the Yugo underfolder stock is in a straight line with the rifles bore rather than dropping down like every other underfolder that extra 1.5" actually makes a big difference as well, If ya can find one to get your hands on try shouldering it, When we built the first Yugo UF kits I wasn't to excited...... just another UF AK...... I prefer fixed stocks myself, the reason for all the UFs in my collection is completness of the collection the ones that get shot all the time Are the fixed stock ones......... untill I shouldered that first Yugo..... but man that wood sure is pretty on the full fixed stock Yugo especially if ya clean it real good then oil it with a dull satin sheen the teak really stands out! Only one thing to do........... get the fixed now before they start puttin plastic on them too and the UF later.......... but wait what if they ban the UF? ohhhh man sure glad I already got my 6 of each built LOL

Ya'll enjoy your shopping, its hittin 92 degrees and climbin outside an I gotta git on the Harley an ride 50 miles into Tucson so I can go make AKs the coolers have been out in the shop all week so its really fun :smile:

Ship Ahoy
May 19, 2007, 13:41
Well someone convinced me to get a Yugo underfolder and I found one locally for $450. Bought this Century rifle today, going to shoot it tomorrow.

Now who's got the best prices on ammo and mags?

XHardrock
May 19, 2007, 14:08
I've been following the thread and it's good to you opted for the Yugo.

AIM has a good variety of x39 at a fair price unless you are getting $500 worth then I would check to see if Century has it for the free shipping.
CFS had the best price on mags awhile back.
Enjoy it.

Ship Ahoy
May 19, 2007, 14:36
Just flipped up the grenade launcher sight and noticed it's sitting at an angle. Front sight looks slightly angled CCW too.

Someone here know how I can remedy this?

dstorm1911
May 19, 2007, 16:53
Take it back and get one that isn't canted thats the number 1 issue with Century built anything and why I emphasize checking for straight sights an gas blocks on anything built by Century. the other option is to remove the pins yourself straighten the sight block and then re-drill and repin.

Its the one thing Century can mess up on a Yugo build and the only thing people MUST inspect before buying, see if the dealer will exchange it for ya, they usually will, With Centerfire they actuaully check em before they ship them most of the time but dealers ordering direct from Century are going to get whatever they are sent and most don't have a clue its just another gun to them..

POTI
May 19, 2007, 21:03
+1 on the m70 Yugo. They are a class above the other AK's out there for the price

wolfsburgbob
May 19, 2007, 21:36
Originally posted by Ship Ahoy


Sorry Bob..... (EDITED from above)

I'm not looking for a museum grade AK, just a shooter......

Originally posted by Ship Ahoy


Just flipped up the grenade launcher sight and noticed it's sitting at an angle. Front sight looks slightly angled CCW too.

Someone here know how I can remedy this?





Sir,

I was not trying to steer you into an expensive collector grade AK, I thought it sensible to look for better quality at a price that is close. I thought you were LOOKING for a good AK under $500, I mis-understood that this was limited to your shown examples.

I also LOVE the Yugo M70s. I still have all of the paperwork that came with my Mitchell M70 fullstock I purchased back in the 80's. I sometimes wish I still had the rifle too.

With this thread exposing more canted sight and gas blocks, along with another FAL FILES member experiencing ejection problems from his Century Yugo,...I would not waste my time with one.

I would rather suggest that you find one another from builder or a "hobbyist" had built with a ORIGINAL YUGO barrel.

Again,...sorry for the mis-understanding.

XHardrock
May 19, 2007, 21:59
If you bought it locally take it back for exchange, I personally would not tinker with a store bought with a warranty.

Ship Ahoy
May 20, 2007, 14:26
Originally posted by dstorm1911
Take it back and get one that isn't canted thats the number 1 issue with Century built anything and why I emphasize checking for straight sights an gas blocks on anything built by Century.

I took it back to Dunham's and they had one other in the store that had good sites. I exchanged it with no hassle. I'm going back to this store again!

Then cleaned, oiled it and went out and shot it. It shoots real good and I consistently missed the bullseye. Gotta get a front sight alignment tool...more mags...more ammo...more mags...more ammo...more mags...more ammo!!!

Thanks again dstorm1911 for all your assistance!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/ShipAhoy/YugoslavianAKM70AB2-1.jpg

dstorm1911
May 20, 2007, 14:37
Originally posted by Ship Ahoy


I took it back to Dunham's and they had one other in the store that had good sites. I exchanged it with no hassle. I'm going back to this store again!

Then cleaned, oiled it and went out and shot it. It shoots real good and I consistently missed the bullseye. Gotta get a front sight alignment tool...more mags...more ammo...more mags...more ammo...more mags...more ammo!!!

Thanks again dstorm1911 for all your assistance!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/ShipAhoy/YugoslavianAKM70AB2-1.jpg

Glad your happy, and BTW don't forget to get more mags...... and more ammo while your there ;) Also if ya can order yourself or find some of the Yugo Bolt hold open mags........ ya'll really like havin the bolt lock back after the last shots been fired ya won't even have to look ya'll recognize the change in sound, grab a fresh mag when ya remove the empty the bolt will close insert full mag then rack the charger an keep goin.........

they run a lil more like $4-$5 more but well worth it

BTW wait till it gets dark and check your night sights I've been runnin into ALOT of kits that I thought the tritium was dead but after cleaning the sights they are actually very much alive, in case ya haven't found em already fold up the leafe at the rear of your rear sight notch, now at the front sight ya'll see a lil door lookin thing right under it on the front of the sight post hook the edge with your fingernail and flip it up....... Tritium night sights are another standard item on Yugo AKs! If they don't glow at night ya can actually get em re-paired to like new by several folks online....... after all everyone knows Zombies always attack at night......

dstorm1911
May 20, 2007, 17:39
Originally posted by wolfsburgbob



With this thread exposing more canted sight and gas blocks, along with another FAL FILES member experiencing ejection problems from his Century Yugo,...I would not waste my time with one.

I would rather suggest that you find one another from builder or a "hobbyist" had built with a ORIGINAL YUGO barrel.

Again,...sorry for the mis-understanding.

Or that the buyer realize that Century can't seem to build 10 of ANY rifle without havin 3 of em end up bein canted, just like all the Century built FALs, the G3s, CETMEs etc... ya have to INSPECT any rifle ya buy that was built by Century EVERYONE knows this if they have ever read more than 5 posts on any gun related forum on the net,

As far as an original barrel???? WHY? When ya can get a brand spankin new match grade barrel ya just gotta make sure they got the sights straight, And as far as the deluge of cr@ppy Century built Yugos... one member outa how many thousands sold who is having ejection issues? Thats a pretty d@mn good record as far as I can see ESPECIALLY for a century built product 90% of the CETMEs and G3s had much more serious issues that shooters are now enjoying...... Now as to his ejection issue,,,,, well considering that reciever is the exact same NODAKspud reciever 99% of us builders and hobbiest use which is used by Century and as I recall in that thread ya had suggested the ejector might not be properly heat treated on the lower quality Century made reciever just what reciever would ya suggest a person look for when considering buying a Yugo built by a hobbiest with onea the original barrels which acording to your earlier post




Originally posted by wolfsburgbob


quote:Originally posted by DC


are the barrels chrome lined? I won't have an AK that isn't.



No they are not Chromed.

The Yugo rifles, both AK and SKS, recently imported were SFOR/KFOR/LSMFT turn-ins and true battlefield pickups from the recent wars in the former Yugoslavia. The rifles were used hard, cleaned rarely, and stored for a period of time after collection without proper maintainence. This is why the majority of kits had "sewer pipes" for bores.

Are sewer pipe bores and not suitable for use etc.... got me all totally confused Bob, ya seem to be swayin whichever way the breeze happens to be blowin here......... could ya please clarify just exactly which your position would happen to be cause this is givin me a headache already :p so are kit built with original sewer pipe bores better or are brand new bores better? A cheap junk improperly heat treated Century reciever or the exact same reciever from NODAK spuds but assembled from an original kit with sewer pipe bore is better if it was built by a stranger in his garage with zero warrantee or........... ohhhhh my head!

BTW most folks who build a good YUGO, won't sell em they seriously outclass all the other AKs in most collections and tend to be the ones folks hold onto if they need the $$ they sell off onea the polish ones they built from them kits ya were sellin awhile back........ remember ya told us bout that too ;)

Enjoy the weekend friends...........

dstorm1911
May 20, 2007, 22:57
Hey if ya needa re-activate your night sights here is a link I finally found it for a guy who'll sell ya new vials real cheap

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=137473

ya want the #0 ones but he currently only lists them in RED


Ice blue would be really COOL though ;)

W.E.G.
May 21, 2007, 16:35
pissing contest moved to http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=203295

Ship Ahoy
May 21, 2007, 18:12
Thanks dstorm I'll look into that. I was surprised to find the night sights, even if the vials look like they are missing or worn out. I'll have to get my high powered glasses to see them with these old eyes.

I downloaded the Army manual for AK's last evening from AR15.com, hope to read it soon.

CenterFire has a couple of front sight tools, which one works on a Yugo?

AK or SKS Front Sight Tool
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/ShipAhoy/AKFrontSightTool.jpg

AK Windage & Elevation Tool
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/ShipAhoy/AKWindageElevationTool.jpg

Again thanks for ALL your help and patience with an AK rookie.

1 old 0311
May 21, 2007, 18:25
Hi Ship,

If your night sight is burned out www.budsguns.com sells replacement front sights with new Tritium inserts.

Ship Ahoy
May 21, 2007, 18:37
Originally posted by 1 old 0311
Hi Ship,

If your night sight is burned out www.budsguns.com sells replacement front sights with new Tritium inserts.

Thanks, but that's a bogus site that just redirects me to other sites.

1 old 0311
May 21, 2007, 19:03
Hi Ship,

Sorry about that. That is what I gert for relying on my memory. It is www.budsgunshop.com.

FTW2012
May 21, 2007, 19:11
Originally posted by 1 old 0311
Hi Ship,

Sorry about that. That is what I gert for relying on my memory. It is www.budsgunshop.com.

I've bought several things from those guys, they usually have the best price on most stuff and are pretty nice to deal with.

W.E.G.
May 21, 2007, 21:43
dstorm1911 you are done posting to this thread

move along

Ksmith
August 26, 2007, 20:43
BTW,..Aren't the M-16s and M-4s CHROMED? We don't use CORROSIVE ammo. Why then CHROME?

FULL AUTO?

The fact is, most of us won't ever be shooting fully automatic rifles, much less with corrosive ammunition.

gunhead
August 26, 2007, 22:11
While not listed as one of the 3 in the original post, no one has mentioned the VEPR, made in Russia.
These would be my choice.
http://www.robarm.com/M96_Home.htm
GL.......in your quest,
Rich