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ILM Sniper
April 28, 2007, 01:24
What would be the difficulties of building a 5.56 kit on a standard 7.62x39 stamped AK receiver?

Essentially I am doing a U Drive screw build using field expedient methods. Have an unlimited supply of 7.62x39 FA receivers and want to convert them to 5.56.

I was thinking along the lines of drilling out rivets and swapping front ends and bolt/carrier assemblies.

Not too familiar with dimensional differences between the two.

Advice on quickest/easiest way to do it?

mj2evans
April 28, 2007, 07:51
Not burst your bubble but drive screws are not the way to go here. They are not ment to handel this kind of stress. Use the real deal rivets or go with a screw build.

wolfsburgbob
April 28, 2007, 07:52
I think he's pulling our legs.

ILM Sniper
April 28, 2007, 08:31
When I say field expedient I mean field expedient. I'm used to wrenching on FALs but to AKs I am relatively new.


Bit of background on how field expedient- I am sitting on a conex full of well used AKMs on the Iraqi side of Camp Cooke. I'm looking to yank the front ends on the better ones, replace them with new barrel assemblies and reisuue them to our LN guard force.

I asked about the 5.56 since I have access to a decent supply of it and mags can be gotten relatively cheap.

Riveting is basically out of the question, don't have access to a press or jig. Thats why I'm thinking grade 8 U drive screws along these lines....

http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=184

As for :
I think he's pulling our legs.

I have MUCH better things to do with my time than screw around online. I am trying to give my LNs a decent, accurate weapon within severe budget constraints. If you don't wish to offer any kind of constructive advice please sit down, take off your slippers, put your feet on the coffee table and have a nice big piping hot cup of STFU.

Have the best day ever :wink:

wolfsburgbob
April 28, 2007, 08:52
Sir,

First of all may I <b>thank you</b> from the bottom of my heart for serving our country in what ever capacity you are engaged in. Be it US Armed Forces, Security Forces, or Private Contractor Services or any other means, I say <b>thank you</b> for helping Iraq and it's fight ro retain true freedom.

I have a son serving Active Duty Air Force. He is COT in Europe.

On to the business of weapons.....Kalashnikovs in particular.


Originally posted by ILM Sniper
When I say field expedient I mean field expedient. I'm used to wrenching on FALs but to AKs I am relatively new.


Bit of background on how field expedient- I am sitting on a conex full of well used AKMs on the Iraqi side of Camp Cooke. I'm looking to yank the front ends on the better ones, replace them with new barrel assemblies and reisuue them to our LN guard force.

I asked about the 5.56 since I have access to a decent supply of it and mags can be gotten relatively cheap.

Riveting is basically out of the question, don't have access to a press or jig. Thats why I'm thinking grade 8 U drive screws along these lines....

http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=184

As for :


I have MUCH better things to do with my time than screw around online. I am trying to give my LNs a decent, accurate weapon within severe budget constraints. If you don't wish to offer any kind of constructive advice please sit down, take off your slippers, put your feet on the coffee table and have a nice big piping hot cup of STFU.

Have the best day ever :wink:

As for expedient,...

F the screw build crap.

On Kalashnikov variants, screw builds are not an acceptable way to assemble unless you intend to snap photos of your creation lying on a cheap leather couch in a trailer park and not depend on it while risking your (or someone else's) life.

I do not care what any of the "in-bred hillbilly children of the corn" out there have to say about screwing front and rear trunnions together. Using this method to assemble rifles for strategic forces to use could only be worsened by using a f'n "flat".

Suggestion #1,..use what you have or secure more correct caliber ammo stores.

Suggestion #2,..Hit the satellite phone and call me (Bob at 330.923.5383), I can offer better help on the "horn".


I know the satellite works as I have taken orders for items and talked to several men at Camp Cooke.

Ask around,...someone will know.

No offense to ANYONE OUT THERE,..THE MAN ASKED for KNOWLEDGE FROM EXPERIENCE.

:wink:

PS,..As for the coffee,..had mine early,..now,..off to build AKs with "Dinky",..the correct way.

Stoney
April 28, 2007, 08:54
I did one with drive screws, but I made the rivet at the mag well solid to keep the front from moving. I have only put about 100 thru it with no problems. The rear needs 1/2" ones.

ILM Sniper
April 28, 2007, 09:04
Originally posted by wolfsburgbob
Sir,

First of all may I <b>thank you</b> from the bottom of my heart for serving our country in what ever capacity you are engaged in. Be it US Armed Forces, Security Forces, or Private Contractor Services or any other means, I say <b>thank you</b> for helping Iraq and it's fight ro retain true freedom.

I have a son serving Active Duty Air Force. He is COT in Europe.

On to the business of weapons.....Kalashnikovs in particular.




As for expedient,...

F the screw build crap.

On Kalashnikov variants, screw builds are not an acceptable way to assemble, unless you intend to snap photos of your creation lying on a cheap leather couch in a trailer park and not depend on it while risking your (or someone else's) life.

I do not care what any of the "in-bred hillbilly children of the corn" out there have to say about screwing front and rear trunnions together. Using this method to assemble rifles for strategic forces to use could only be worsened by using a f'n "flat".

Suggestion #1,..use what you have or secure more correct caliber ammo stores.

Suggestion #2,..Hit the sattelite phone and call me (Bob at 330.923.5383), I can offer better help on the "horn".


I know the satellite works as I have taken orders for items and talked to several men at Camp Cooke.

Ask around,...someone will know.

:wink:

Solid copy- sorry I'm snappy- had a 1SG climbing on my ass all day, got yelled at by a light bird and a Naval Lt. and to top it all off fell into a damn drainage ditch.

Will try to give a shout within a week. Need to recharge the phone card.

FWIW I'm a military contractor trying to keep our guys safe while they train the IA and INP- got some scatch to spend but 90% of it is out of pocket on my end. Just want to give my guys something that will shoot straight, isn't pitted to hell and somewhat up there on the cool factor. Iraqis tend to like unusual weapons over "standard" AKs that make my pecker hard.

I'd never screw a rear trunnion in, know enough to have visions of a bolt carrier embedded in someone's forehead. Trying to figure out how to do a front end only.

One good note about today- found a brand spanking new, still in cosmoline and paper, 1975 dated Soviet AK with the PRETTIEST laminate I have ever seen. Will post pics when everyone signs off and I have some bandwidth.

wolfsburgbob
April 28, 2007, 09:12
Originally posted by ILM Sniper


Solid copy- sorry I'm snappy- had a 1SG climbing on my ass all day, got yelled at by a light bird and a Naval Lt. and to top it all off fell into a damn drainage ditch.

Will try to give a shout within a week. Need to recharge the phone card.

FWIW I'm a military contractor trying to keep our guys safe while they train the IA and INP- got some scatch to spend but 90% of it is out of pocket on my end. Just want to give my guys something that will shoot straight, isn't pitted to hell and somewhat up there on the cool factor. Iraqis tend to like unusual weapons over "standard" AKs that make my pecker hard.

I'd never screw a rear trunnion in, know enough to have visions of a bolt carrier embedded in someone's forehead. Trying to figure out how to do a front end only.

One good note about today- found a brand spanking new, still in cosmoline and paper, 1975 dated Soviet AK with the PRETTIEST laminate I have ever seen. Will post pics when everyone signs off and I have some bandwidth.

<b>ANYTHING</b> I can do to help will be done!

I can see you are up to speed on the trunnion issues. DEADLY!

and...

Roger on that Sargent stuff. I have a "Fresh Sewn" Staff Sargent coming home after his four active are done. He is just as full of vigor as he was before he went in.

When he hits his old barracks,..he still got an old man with rank waiting to chew his ass if he needs it.

(Right after I give him a big hug!)

Call ANYTIME! I got more suggestions on what to do than a 50 Year old whore.

THANKS for <b>DOIN'THE JOB!</b>

ILM Sniper
April 28, 2007, 09:50
Originally posted by wolfsburgbob


Roger on that Sargent stuff. I have a "Fresh Sewn" Staff Sargent coming home after his four active are done. He is just as full of vigor as he was before he went in.

When he hits his old barracks,..he still got an old man with rank waiting to chew his ass if he needs it.


Let him know if he's ever up my way to let you know. I'll PM you my Iraqna number. He's got an open invite to my hooch in order to blissfully break General Order #1

:whiskey: :beer: :whiskey:

Stoney
April 28, 2007, 18:48
buit why change from 762x39, its a better cal.

wolfsburgbob
April 28, 2007, 22:17
Originally posted by Stoney
buit why change from 762x39, its a better cal.

I'm in with Stoney on this one.

Besides, 5.56 and the AK design are not (in my humble opinion) good companions, The Chinese, Finns, and even the Izzys had issues with "hammering" of lugs and bolts by that hot little high pressure 5.56 round.

Mikhail Kalashnikov said it best...."There is NOTHING wrong with the caliber of my original rifle. If it was not for Gene Stoner and his 5.56,...there would be no our 5.45!"

The "Master" saw no need years ago..

ILM Sniper
April 29, 2007, 00:09
Originally posted by Stoney
buit why change from 762x39, its a better cal.

Two words- Iraqi ammo.

Our 7.62x39 comes from multiple sources. A good bit of it is locally produced Iraqi ammo and we have had hundreds of instances over the past 2 years of squib loads, double powder charges etc.

5.56 however is almost universally US made with according QC.

This isn't the States where I can get on the phone and order 20K rounds of Wolf or S&B. I have to use what I can find/scrounge/buy on the economy here.

wolfsburgbob
April 29, 2007, 08:01
Originally posted by ILM Sniper


Two words- Iraqi ammo.

Our 7.62x39 comes from multiple sources. A good bit of it is locally produced Iraqi ammo and we have had hundreds of instances over the past 2 years of squib loads, double powder charges etc.

5.56 however is almost universally US made with according QC.

<font color=red><b>This isn't the States where I can get on the phone and order 20K rounds of Wolf </b></font>or S&B. I have to use what I can find/scrounge/buy on the economy here.

Well,..THAT'S the SITREP for sure! The MAN Has a POINT!

:rofl:

...as for all of that "WOLF" that we can order by phone, ...I woulld not WASTE a PHONE CALL to purchase any of their LOWEST BIDDER CONTRACT crap ammo.

Every time I hear some moron on one of the boards comment on how good they think "Wolf" ammo because they just shot a thousand rounds outa their AK,.. I just want to PUKE!

Yes folks,..inconsistant loads, inconsistant projos, sloppy cases, squibs, and overloads are ...JUST A PHONE CALL AWAY!

They buy componets from the lowest bidder and have there ammo assembled BY the lowest bidder. (I guess it is SOLD to the LOWEST BIDDERS in AMERICA too!)

Here's a photo or three.....TCW (Tula) = Wolf Contract...from a 9x18 Makarov cartridge that separated at the base and took out a ...BULGARIAN MAKAROV...barrel and all!

Good think nobody was hurt.

(I have more photos, I have the pistol,..I have the case.)

http://i14.tinypic.com/2i8j3mv.jpg

http://i18.tinypic.com/2cmr9xi.jpg

http://i15.tinypic.com/495u0ev.jpg


It is VERY WISE to KNOW your AMMUNITION SOURCE!

:wink:

PS,..I'll be thinking about suggestions!.......

ILM Sniper
April 29, 2007, 09:07
OUCH!

I used Wolf for example because the stuff is like flies on horses**t :rofl:

Here's my 1975 dated Bolshevik AK. I plan on stripping the furniture off and bringing it home with me, replacing what's on her now with some K-Var synthetic stuff and maybe an ACE folder.

ILM Sniper
April 29, 2007, 09:09
Another

ILM Sniper
April 29, 2007, 09:10
the whole shebang

FN74
April 29, 2007, 11:59
Originally posted by ILM Sniper


Let him know if he's ever up my way to let you know. I'll PM you my Iraqna number. He's got an open invite to my hooch in order to blissfully break General Order #1

:whiskey: :beer: :whiskey:


Hey ILM, if you get over to the NEC much, give me a holer on my Iraqna, I'll pm you my #'s for it and for the 914 phone.

Will be out in the field for the next 3 weeks however, but back then. Will PM.

wolfsburgbob
April 29, 2007, 13:29
Originally posted by ILM Sniper
OUCH!

I used Wolf for example because the stuff is like flies on horses**t :rofl:



:rofl:


Originally posted by ILM Sniper

Here's my 1975 dated Bolshevik AK. I plan on stripping the furniture off and bringing it home with me.......

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1904987



SUPERB,....I must say SIMPLY <b>SUPERB</b>!

ILM Sniper
April 29, 2007, 20:35
To clarify my last post to all the BATFEEE (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, Explosives and Everything Else).........

I am bringing the FURNITURE home- not the rifle.

Wolf- always nice seeing an AK with the correct number of axis pins isn't it? :biggrin:

Kyrottimus
May 02, 2007, 15:37
Wolfsburgbob knows his stuff. Listen to him, he's been 100% on everything he's said in here, so it doesn't bare repeating from the likes of me.


Wolf is [at best] Merely OK in 7.62x39 but sucks in every other caliber I've tried.


Personally, I like Golden Tiger 7.62x39 for a CHEAP source.


My fav is still the Brass-cased Port, but good luck finding that anymore...

Kyrottimus
May 02, 2007, 15:39
Originally posted by ILM Sniper
To clarify my last post to all the BATFEEE (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, Explosives and Everything Else).........

I am bringing the FURNITURE home- not the rifle.

Wolf- always nice seeing an AK with the correct number of axis pins isn't it? :biggrin:

And yes, seeing the Auto-sear pin in that Klash just gives me that warm and fuzzy feeling on the inside...


...either that or I ate some bad mexican food...

wolfsburgbob
May 02, 2007, 17:32
Originally posted by Kyrottimus

And yes, seeing the Auto-sear pin in that Klash just gives me that warm and fuzzy feeling on the inside...



Amen!



Originally posted by Kyrottimus

...either that or I ate some bad mexican food...



Is there any other kind?

:wink:

PS,..Just a kiddin'. Every time I go to Houston, Jimmy Streetman drags me in an out of every hole-in-the-wall Taqueria in town.

Say,..SALSA!

Say,..THE SHITS!

dstorm1911
May 08, 2007, 22:57
Ya'd be better off stickin with the 7.62x39 there is no easy field expediant for that caliber swap and drive screws on a Full auto is only gonna get people hurt, they don't work on semi autos no chance of keepin em together in a full auto. ya'd even be better off welding than useing U-Drives and welding's not much better but it is better than U-Drives, I've been tryin to help a buddy who's a victim of a U-Drive build semi auto that came apart, destroyed the tendons in his right wrist, been 4 months of reconstructive surgery and rehab.... Don't even wanna think how fast a full auto would come apart......

Aside from a non-starter fastening method ya'd also need bolts, bolt carriers, replace left rail with longer ejector, leangthen magwell, come up with a steady supply of .223 mags all to build a less than reliable weapon outa a totally reliable weapon.........

coffinman
June 03, 2007, 13:31
that is some beautiful furniture on that AK.....where can someone get something close to that? I have a Hungarian that needs new wood.

ILM Sniper
June 10, 2007, 00:29
Originally posted by coffinman
that is some beautiful furniture on that AK.....where can someone get something close to that? I have a Hungarian that needs new wood.

Taji and Baghdad are good places to start- al-Hillah also :D

I'm hoping these wind up as surplus kits- the IA is switching from the AKM to the M16/M4 series. This is going to be a hoot- buy stock in companies that make firing pin retaining pins!

I decided it was more trouble than it was worth to go to the 5.56, especially with the limited tools/supplies on hand.

I had an M92 virgin kit sent over and assembled that on a spare new Soviet AKM using the correct rivet build for PSD and have my good ol' AKM for patrols.

Pics of the M92 shall be forthcoming once I get enough bandwidth to upload them.