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Yellow Bird Deer
March 08, 2007, 12:09
Purchased a rifle and paid extra for a spare stock December 24th, received the rifle, but not the stock which seller said he'd ship separately to my home address. Never arrived. Tried numerous times to contact him with no reply. Last PM from him notifying me he'd ship the stock was January 16th, last time he was on line was January 31st. Between those dates I e-mailed and left messages on his cell phone with no reply, so I'm sure he received them. Tried calling a few times since as recently as last night. Always get the same voice mail message.
He's a deputy sheriff and in my my conversations and correspondence with him, he seemed like a good guy and I am pleased with the rifle. I have his name, address and the name of the sheriff's department where he works. I am considering calling his dept. to see if he's OK before I proceed. I don't want to hurt his reputation if something happened to him

At what point should I go public and mention his user name and actual name?

Any advice is appreciated.

hagar
March 08, 2007, 12:15
I'd say you gave him plenty of time to make things right, now hammer him for all it's worth. LEO's are not above the law, and we should expect them to be honest and keep their word.

gunplumber
March 08, 2007, 12:22
+1, except I would have given him 7 days to have it in my hands before hammering, and filing a fraud complaint with his boss.

Robin Shooter
March 08, 2007, 19:30
I wouldn't deliberate any further - you gave him plenty of time. I'd post a negative feedback for sure. I hope you get what's owed you.

Yellow Bird Deer
March 08, 2007, 21:29
Thanks for the replies guys.
What do you think about calling his department?

1MOR
March 08, 2007, 21:41
You have been more than patient. At this point, his actions indicate that he is blowing you off. Your turn. Now you need to do what it takes to resolve the problem. As a LEO, he should understand that his A$$ is hanging out there a lot further than the rest of us. You might want to call his department, find out when he is next at work and then calling him at the beginning of his shift. If he can't take that hint, he deserves whatever you decide to to about him. I doubt that you are the first person that he has shafted and probably has that reputation among his peers. He will most likely have a departmental Email address.

gunhead
March 09, 2007, 11:01
I would try & call his workplace & talk directly to him first.
Rich

goldenspurholderx2
March 09, 2007, 18:37
I don't think there is anything wrong with calling his work to see if anything bad happened to him before pursuing further. I would be wary of calling his work, just as I would be wary of calling anyone's work to try to collect on a debt, or in this case an item due you. I think there are laws someplace about calling people at work to collect on a debt. Not positive. I hope he didn't have a crissis. Barring serious injury, death, or another event affecting his family's personal saftey, the item should have been shipped.

Yellow Bird Deer
March 09, 2007, 20:39
Originally posted by goldenspurholderx2
Barring serious injury, death, or another event affecting his family's personal safety, the item should have been shipped.

That's how I feel. From the number of posts that he made around that time selling items, including another rifle or two, I suspect money difficulties which may relate to medical issues. If that be the case, there is no reason for him to not take a minute and let me know, I'm a pretty understanding guy and don't mind waiting a while if I know it's coming. Barring his death or that of an immediate family member, there really is no excuse for his failure to reply.

BTW, I e-mailed him a link to this thread and thought I 'd wait a few days before posting more information.

g5
March 20, 2007, 13:50
And..........................?

Yellow Bird Deer
March 20, 2007, 13:59
Originally posted by g5
And..........................?

What a coincidence you should ask. I just called his department minutes ago and left him a message, the deadbeat is fine and still working......

I then called his cell and left him a message telling him I had called his dept. to check on him and had left a message for him and that if he didn't resolve this now, my next call will be to file a formal complaint against him with the department.

If it requires being there, I have a buddy right across the river that will get the paperwork for me.

I'll give him a couple of days or so before I reveal his name and user name in a new thread here. Hate to have to do it, but others need to be aware before dealing with him.

With all the other crap I'm dealing with right now....someone's gonna' pay dammit... ;o)

Yellow Bird Deer
March 21, 2007, 10:33
Just got a PM from him and he said "having some personal problems and haven't yet shipped your stock. I can send you a refund for the money or the stock, whichever your prefer. I've got no excuse for the this, but I would like to make it right."

So it looks like he's going to make good on it.

gunplumber
March 21, 2007, 16:46
Originally posted by Yellow Bird Deer
Just got a PM from him and he said "having some personal problems and haven't yet shipped your stock. I can send you a refund for the money or the stock, whichever your prefer. I've got no excuse for the this, but I would like to make it right."

So it looks like he's going to make good on it.

this is called a "cockroach stalling tactic." Personal problems didn't stop him from cashing your check.

Mouse
March 21, 2007, 17:44
Originally posted by Yellow Bird Deer
Just got a PM from him and he said "having some personal problems and haven't yet shipped your stock. I can send you a refund for the money or the stock, whichever your prefer. I've got no excuse for the this, but I would like to make it right."

So it looks like he's going to make good on it.

It sounds to me like he's only making good on it because you threatened to go to his boss to file a formal complaint. You should leave him a negative review, give him 5 business days to deliver your stock, and you should out him here to protect the next guy.
If he really wanted to make it right he would refund the money you paid him for the stock and send you the stock too. He's had more than 2 months, that's more than enough time to fix things.

tump
March 21, 2007, 18:10
get your money back and leave the appropriate feed back.:wink:

Yellow Bird Deer
March 21, 2007, 23:07
He sent another pm telling me he was including a few 20 round M14 mags for my trouble.

I tend to believe the personal problems story. In looking at his posting history, he was in an acquiring mode early on and then recently a liquidation mode, selling off some nice rifles. Also, in talking with him he does seem like a decent guy. I'm going through a lot of of serious stuff right now myself and I recently took about a week longer to ship an item than I had said I would because I had to leave town when my mom went in for emergency surgery. I'm not trying to make excuses for the guy, but I know that sometimes things happen in life.

That being said, I'll wait and see if my stock and mags arrive.

renaissance_warrior
March 22, 2007, 02:29
Give him the benefit of the doubt, since he's sweetening the deal. I've had times such as that myself. At least he's a 'gun guy' and a LEO, that's a plus in my view. Some people are more dilatory than others, just human nature. One of my faults as well. :shades:

gunplumber
March 22, 2007, 09:48
Geez, some of you guys would give Charlie Manson another chance.

Its been TWO MONTHS!

The guy made a decision to LIE and CHEAT the buyer.

Now he's a "nice guy" because he is facing consequences (his job) for his behavior?

If the guy can cash the check, he can go to the post office. If he can go to work, then the "health problems" must not be too bad - eh? The PO will pick up the package! He doesn't even have to leav his house. I just shipped 20 more orders. Just walked to the end of the driveway and put it in the box. Click and ship! I could do that in a wheelchair while on oxygen.

This kind of candy-ass equivocating is pathetic. Sounds like a bunch of teen-agers trying to come up with an "excuse" for something, as if "the story" will somehow absolve them of responsibility for their BEHAVIOR CHOICES.

Yellow Bird Deer
March 22, 2007, 13:04
Originally posted by gunplumber
Geez, some of you guys would give Charlie Manson another chance.

This kind of candy-ass equivocating is pathetic. Sounds like a bunch of teen-agers trying to come up with an "excuse" for something, as if "the story" will somehow absolve them of responsibility for their BEHAVIOR CHOICES.


Ouch...

No I suspect it's a divorce or something of that nature. I don't think you can say he made a conscious decision "to lie and cheat the buyer" without knowing the circumstances. I'm speculating, but, depression can make it pretty hard to get anything done....but who knows? He screwed up and sounds like he's going to make it right.

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, esp. since he's sweetening the deal. That is, assuming he actually ships this time.

Not here in a week, then GP is right......

gunplumber
March 22, 2007, 13:19
I don't get it. How does a "divorce" keep you from putting a stock in a box and mailing it FOR TWO MONTHS?

Maybe I'm just old school, but when someone makes an agreement to provide X product for Y payment, and then they don't do so, and don't correct it (mistakes happen) in a reasonable amount of time (2 months is much more than reasonable) than what conclusion can I reach other than
He lied/cheated on the deal?

The difference between "mistake" and "cheat" is his choice to blow you off for 2 months.

English Mike
March 22, 2007, 20:44
Mark

IMO your judgement is harsh: IF the guy makes good, then nobody got hurt.

I've been in business for some time now & giving the benefit of doubt has only failed me once.

I DON'T hold others to my own standards, as I'm dealing with people from all walks of life on a daily basis & some are indeed slow to act for one reason or another - either true or false.

What I DO practice is a healthy cynicism, which means I can almost invariably see when someone is playing a Joker.

Right now, the cards are in this guy's hands & I wont call it for another week.

IF he has a genuine problem, then the recent comm's will have made him realise he has to act & complete the transaction; if not, then we'll likely know soon enough.

goldenspurholderx2
March 22, 2007, 21:10
I respect Mark's point of view just because I know he really believes in it and will defend it viciously, with well thought out reasoning and logic. I, however, do not share it. I have a more "shades of grey" out look on life. YBD, I commend you on your handling of the situation:beer: At the point of after a week for him to make it right with included bonuses as "heartburn compensation" if there is no satisfaction, I believe you to be justified using any means within the law to regain your losses and to embarrass the offending member. You have been more than reasonable and patient. We all have personal problems in our life that affect us, some can deal with adversity better than others. I sincerely hope that this member has not befallen a hardship of epic proportion. I won't make a judgement even though he has been at work, one man's hardship may be another man's minor annoyance.

Right Side Up
March 22, 2007, 22:59
How much money are we talking here? If it's under $50 I'd probably out him here on the board, but not call his boss and jeopardize his job and the service he provides to his community. I'm taking into to consideration that this guy puts his life on the line for a living and probably makes a pittance at it. He goes to work and does a public service every single day. That's worth something to me. Yeah it sucks that he blew off the stock deal, but he is probably not totally bad.

Oh yeah, and I vote for a new forum called "Gunplumber's Rants" where all of the drool dripping off his chin can be sent.

gunplumber
March 23, 2007, 07:26
Originally posted by Right Side Up
How much money are we talking here?

irrelevant. Whether its $5 or $500 the principle is the same.

I'm taking into to consideration that this guy puts his life on the line for a living and probably makes a pittance at it. He goes to work and does a public service every single day.

Boo fricken hoo. That he is a liar and a cheat AND a cop makes it worse, not better.

The cockroach chose not to deliver on his word. It is interesting to know that dishonesty is forgiven by some here if the cockroach:

is employed in certain fields
is getting divorced
only stole a small amount
has medical problems
has "personal problems".

Its no wonder that this type of thing happens so frequently, with the expectations of some so low.

A hardship that prevents one from shipping as promised should also prevent one from cashing the check.

owlcreekok
March 23, 2007, 10:14
Hardship affects different people in varied ways. I got a heap of respect for RSU, GP, The 'spur, others, so don't even start poking at me here. I ain't poking at none of ya'll.

Here's my take, and it ain't worth a damn, prolly.

THIS is a hobby to most of us. Buy, sell, trade, not even anywhere near a business. I treat it as such. I take a chance every time I enter into a "cyber-deal" with a "cyber-personality". Have I been burned ? Well, a little. Not enough to worry about, to me. I might get really hosed someday. That would suck. It is NOT right to let your honor go to crap. Not for $5, not for $500. Whose a$$ is the blackest when one guy doesn't hold up his end of a $50 deal and another guy potentially ruins his "career" over it. Trust me, I have seen people screwed at work for some stupid crap that really did not mean squat professionally.

Many on here have been through divorce. Many go through it as if it were a minor inconvenience. I found it to be harder than the death of a loved one. Completely incapacitating. I urge a bit of compassion to be extended to anyone going through it. Regardless of the circumstance.

Let me take one more example, even to an extreme. What if a person is told that their health is failing, and possibly unto death. Maybe that of a loved one. Does this excuse being "out of touch" for a period ? I think so. I would hope that if I were told that I may live another month, MAX, that I would ensure my business deals, professional and recreational were in order. If I miss some detail and someone damns me for it, I pray they can live with that.

In my short experience with internet commerce through this board, I have noted that most times people are good for their word. When a long time passes in a deal unkept, it usually means the person had an extreme event in life.

Gentlemen, I offer to the quorum, THIS IS NOT LIFE. It is a hobby.

Respectfully

Jerry

gunhead
March 23, 2007, 10:24
Originally posted by owlcreekok
Hardship affects different people in varied ways. I got a heap of respect for RSU, GP, The 'spur, others, so don't even start poking at me here. I ain't poking at none of ya'll.

Let me take one more example, even to an extreme. What if a person is told that their health is failing, and possibly unto death. Maybe that of a loved one. Does this excuse being "out of touch" for a period ? I think so. I would hope that if I were told that I may live another month, MAX, that I would ensure my business deals, professional and recreational were in order. If I miss some detail and someone damns me for it, I pray they can live with that.

Gentlemen, I offer to the quorum, THIS IS NOT LIFE. It is a hobby.

Respectfully

Jerry

1+ Jerry.
I agree that there are circumstances where one can get "Forgetful"
Some do not realize that until it happens to them.
Everyone handles these circumstances differently, does'nt make you a bad person IMHO.
Everyone(most) think that a private selling individual has someone to "fill in" for them if something like devorce, illness, etc. happens.
In most cases there is no one to "fill in" so the item gets waylaid:sad:
This happens, what can you do?
I can see this happening to me so I have stopped selling on Ebay until I get up on my feet again:)
Rich

Right Side Up
March 23, 2007, 10:28
Originally posted by gunplumber
Originally posted by Right Side Up
How much money are we talking here?

irrelevant. Whether its $5 or $500 the principle is the same.

I'm taking into to consideration that this guy puts his life on the line for a living and probably makes a pittance at it. He goes to work and does a public service every single day.

Boo fricken hoo. That he is a liar and a cheat AND a cop makes it worse, not better.

The cockroach chose not to deliver on his word. It is interesting to know that dishonesty is forgiven by some here if the cockroach:

is employed in certain fields
is getting divorced
only stole a small amount
has medical problems
has "personal problems".

Its no wonder that this type of thing happens so frequently, with the expectations of some so low.

A hardship that prevents one from shipping as promised should also prevent one from cashing the check.


A low buck stock deal can be gotten over. At least the cop didn't screw the man's wife. You've never had sexual relations with the wife of someone you did business with have you? :uhoh: You're such a stuffed shirt when it comes to principle.

Right Side Up
March 23, 2007, 10:41
Fixed. Now GP the "not wholly virtuous" has room to post some more blather.

gunplumber
March 23, 2007, 10:45
Originally posted by Right Side Up
At least the guy didn't screw another man's wife. You've never done that have you?

No, it wan't me. Did your wife tell you that? sure it wasn't the HS football team?

Right Side Up
March 23, 2007, 10:46
You're such a hypocrite, and a liar to boot.

gunplumber
March 23, 2007, 11:04
Sorry dude, if your wife's a slut thats something you'll have to deal with, but I've never met her.

Yellow Bird Deer
March 23, 2007, 11:29
Getting back to the subject.....

Philosophically, I totally agree with GP, but personally, I've had events occur in my life that would have prevented me from shipping in a timely manner (though I would have at least contacted the buyer well before two months had passed, unless I was in a coma or dead that is). I also think being an LEO, he should be held to a higher standard of conduct, not lower.

I never said he was involved in a divorce, had medical problems or was kidnapped by aliens. I was speculating based on his selling off some of his recently acquired collection and changing addresses, that something serious had befallen him and that is why I exercised extreme (maybe excessive) patience.

He should have shipped or contacted me with a good reason why he hadn't. He screwed up and acknowledged it. He offered to include some valuable mags to make up for it, which was acceptable to me. If he keeps his word and I receive these items, I'm done with it.

I guess the answer to the original question is; depends on the circumstances.....

Right Side Up
March 23, 2007, 11:40
Originally posted by gunplumber
Sorry dude, if your wife's a slut thats something you'll have to deal with, but I've never met her.

I'm not married anymore, but when I was neither of my wives would have let a troll such as yourself even put gas in their car, much less touch them.

It's funny to watch a low-life like you talk about morality and virtue.

gunplumber
March 23, 2007, 12:04
Originally posted by Right Side Up
I'm not married anymore, but when I was neither of my wives . ..



I thought Polygamy was banned?

Was it the plumber they ran off with? Is that what this is about?

Right Side Up
March 23, 2007, 12:11
Heh Heh heh, I thought that might confuse you. Two marriages. Neither wife would stoop to your level. Class and all that. Foreign to you and you wouldn't understand it in a million years.

Scored on any employees wives lately?

Come on, preach us a sermon about virtue.....loser.

Right Side Up
March 23, 2007, 12:16
Recognize this GP? It's off a list I'm privy to. This guy has you figured out (it's in bold at the bottom). You really should get on some meds GP.



GP wrote:

"Then leave. I won't miss you. Your post is bull$hit anyway - if you
want to leave then leave. If you want to stay, then stay. Don't play
this "woe is me - I need sympathy - this is such a tough decision"
game. Thats something a chick does at the hair salon.

Take your gun to your local gunsmith, pay him to check the headspace.
Then if the gun doesn't work, you can pay him again to wonder why it
doesn't. Or you can buy my book and know how to do it all yourself.
Its simply reality that my DVD and workbook are the single best source
for the FA anywhere. Period. You want some false modesty? Bullshit.
It is the best. I made it after watching that joke abortion that AGI
put out. You get 5 hours of instruction, 130 pages of technical data and
resources, for $60. Jumping Jackrabbits, I'm almost GIVING it away!
You try to find professional instruction DVDs anywhere else for double
the cost! You'll find them $20/hour minimum. I know, I buy them in the
hosre training field.

What you should be doing is thanking me profusely for cutting into my
own gunsmithing business income by giving you an opportunity to
purchase such a valuable resource at barely over the production cost,
and a web resource joining you with hundreds of other like minded people
for free help. If you think sniveling about how you don't trust me is
going to garner you sympathy instead of disgust and contempt, you are
seriously mistaken."

- T, Mark Graham, List Mommy

larry wrote:

>Gunplumber, for the last few hours I've been trying to figure out what
>about you I didn't like- some little bells in the back of my head kept
>going off and I couldn't figure out why.
>
>It finally dawned upon me, that when I asked for opinions, you
>said "Buy my book for 60 dollars,,,,"
>
>Then I realized you sound just like one of those fake TV Preachers who
>say "If you give me your money, I'll ask God to forgive your sins!"
>
>So, I now distrust you with what I feel is just cause- Larry the Orc
>

gunplumber
March 23, 2007, 12:30
Originally posted by Right Side Up
Recognize this GP? It's off a list I'm privy to. This guy has you figured out (it's in bold at the bottom). You really should get on some meds GP.



GP wrote:

"Then leave. I won't miss you. Your post is bull$hit anyway - if you
want to leave then leave. If you want to stay, then stay. Don't play
this "woe is me - I need sympathy - this is such a tough decision"
game. Thats something a chick does at the hair salon.

Take your gun to your local gunsmith, pay him to check the headspace.
Then if the gun doesn't work, you can pay him again to wonder why it
doesn't. Or you can buy my book and know how to do it all yourself.
Its simply reality that my DVD and workbook are the single best source
for the FA anywhere. Period. You want some false modesty? Bullshit.
It is the best. I made it after watching that joke abortion that AGI
put out. You get 5 hours of instruction, 130 pages of technical data and
resources, for $60. Jumping Jackrabbits, I'm almost GIVING it away!
You try to find professional instruction DVDs anywhere else for double
the cost! You'll find them $20/hour minimum. I know, I buy them in the
hosre training field.

What you should be doing is thanking me profusely for cutting into my
own gunsmithing business income by giving you an opportunity to
purchase such a valuable resource at barely over the production cost,
and a web resource joining you with hundreds of other like minded people
for free help. If you think sniveling about how you don't trust me is
going to garner you sympathy instead of disgust and contempt, you are
seriously mistaken."

- T, Mark Graham, List Mommy

larry wrote:

>Gunplumber, for the last few hours I've been trying to figure out what
>about you I didn't like- some little bells in the back of my head kept
>going off and I couldn't figure out why.
>
>It finally dawned upon me, that when I asked for opinions, you
>said "Buy my book for 60 dollars,,,,"
>
>Then I realized you sound just like one of those fake TV Preachers who
>say "If you give me your money, I'll ask God to forgive your sins!"
>
>So, I now distrust you with what I feel is just cause- Larry the Orc
>

Thank you for reminding everyone of the outstanding FAL building DVD and workbook set ($60, shipped).

While I appreciate your support, doncha think you've hijacked the thread enough already?

By the way, was there some part of my response, on my fal lmailing list (Join my FN-FAL mailing list "FN-FAL-subscribe@yahoogroups.com"), that you disagree with?

If you don't like how I run my FAL Lsit, you can unsubscribe any time.

Right Side Up
March 23, 2007, 12:34
Awww...is the widdle baby crying now and has to toss the "highjack" card on the table? :D

You're a barrel of fun ya' know? A legend in you own widdle mind.

ggiilliiee
March 23, 2007, 12:59
women are intrigued by gunjammer......when they see his fat obese hurrendously out of shape body..(HOW DID YA EVER LET YOURSELF GO TO THAT POINT ....YOU GOT BIGGER TITTIES THAN MY GIRLFRIENDS) ...they either get "hooked on lesbonics"....or just reply ..."IT LOOKS LIKE A PENIS ....ONLY ALOT SMALLER ..".....i love ya though man .all the guys at the shop, secretary too ..think you make george bush look like he has a phd in quantum mechanics .....



but all i can say if its taken this long ......why is this leo not working the window at mcdonalds ..
.......oh im sorry mcdonalds requires more training than leos ...hehe......makes ya wonder how does he perform on the job ..if he cant handle a mailbox ...why is he carrying a firearm ...

mitchellh
March 23, 2007, 15:47
Damn ggiilliiee,

Nice post! You never cease to amaze me with your complete ignorance, and ability to insult an entire profession in one post.

:bow: