7.62x39 and Unique

[daschnoz]

Here's a guy that loads a 308 with 100gr plinkers over 10gr. of Unique.

http://www.reloadingroom.com/page46.html

I have loaded up a few for my 308, but I was thinking... would something similar work for 7.62x39? Maybe start with something like 8gr, or should I go as low as 5gr and work up?

I'm talking Sunday afternoon plinking here. I can get 700+ rounds from a single pound of powder. Easy on the pocket and easy on the shoulder. The wife will REALLY like this one.

Any thoughts?

[owlcreekok]

First thing that comes to my mind is how dirty Unique is. I tried it years ago in .45 acp. Left the guns nasty, unburnt or semi burnt flecks of powder in the gun, on the face. Blech. Seems like another bud had tried (and still does it AFAIK) using large rifle primers with Unique to get it to burn better. He said that even though LR primers don't set flush, the thicker metal of the primer cup made it safe enough. I never verified any of this. I just use 231 or Bullseye in .45. I light of all this, maybe using the LR primers and Unique for AK feed would work. Give it a try and tell us what happens.

:beer:

[DYNOMIKE]

I used Unique quite a Bit years ago for many of my Cast Bullet loads in .44 Mag.
Accuracy and velocity was always very good, BUT it was pretty dirty.
I have also used the HORNADY Half Jacket bullet for lots of .30 Carbine loads and it is a Good little Bullet.

IMO thinking "Outside" the box so to speak (keeping safety in mind of course) for stuff like Plinking or Practice loads is a Great idea..
Our One and Only (Thank Someone) Resident OWL has been tinkering with a Load using 2400. He has posted some results but seems he will experiment some more..

I think that "Possibly" using Magnum Primers would help clean up the Burn, but I also think that you may have less Unburnt Powder in the Longer Barrel than you would see in a Pistol Length barrel?

The Load would also need to be sufficient to Operate/Cycle the Action which in the load your Article uses is "NOT" a Consideration..

Try it and let us know what you find out..:beer:

[instr8]

Although I haven't tried that particular combonation, I'm sure it will work. I can't tell you where to start, but normally I load it up to there there is enough pressure to expand the case enough to prevent blowback in 7.62X54R. One thing I can tell you is that steel cases are harder to seal than brass, so keep that in mind. I use cast bullets and 110gr M1 carbine bullets. These loaded with pistol powder (12 gr of Nitro100 in my case) make my Russian M-44 buckets of fun to shoot and no sore shoulder. Lots of guys use Red and blue dot for their "pistol in a rifle" rounds. Also, most of these loads won't cycle a semi action if youre thinking AK/SKS, from what I understand, but I haven't tried it in a semi yet so I'm not saying it can't be done. Just always keep in mind you are using really fast powder.

Oh, and you'll have to find a way to tighten the neck on that X39 case to hold a .308 dia. bullet.

[daschnoz]

I'll be using Winchester brass and I have a set of Lee dies with the factory crimp, so .308 bullets are not a problem.

I e-mailed the dude who wrote the page, and he recommended starting with 7gr and working up in 0.2gr increments. He said consider 2000fps or where the rifle cycles (whichever comes first) as the maximum load.

I'll be putting some of these together tonight. If only it was warmer.....

[owlcreekok]

That set of Lee dies you have is like mine I am guessing. It came with an expander ball for those who prefer to use .308 bullets. The expander-decapper's "ball" measures .309" Re size a 'x39 case using that ball and you are in biz for a .308" (nominal) bullet. IIRC my set of Lee 7.62 x 39 dies came with the .309 expander installed. I had to change it out to the bigger one. I am using .311 bullets.

My 2400 load cycles the hell out of my Romy AK.

[Ohio FAL]

Ten years ago I tried Unique with the Lee 120 and heavier lead bullets. Won't cycle the action and accuracy is medicore at best. Now a powder that did work was 2400, won't send the cases flying into the next county.
Sam

[instr8]

2400 is a lot slower than what we are talking about using and has many applications in rifle loads. I'm using 12gr. of N100, which is barely slower than bullseye, so I'm not suprised 2400 will cycle you fellow's AK's.

How much 2400 are you guys using in your X39 loads?

I'm not suprised the guy said .02gr. per, but you're wasting your time with such small increments, But, better safe than sorry.

[owlcreekok]

I tried the 2400 load last Sunday for the first time. 14.0 grs under a 125 gr SP. I started a thread on it. It's down a ways now. Like OhioFal said, it don't send the brass out of county. I likes.

[daschnoz]

UPDATE!!!!
Here a report of what I took to the range. I took 10 rounds, but was so excited about the results I was getting that I forgot to write 1 of the velocities down.

The rifle did NOT cycle, but it did short stroke. I will increase powder till I reach 2000 fps, or until the rifle cycles (watching for pressure along the way of course).

The report was a bit louder then a 22LR, and the bullet flying sounded like a juiced 22LR. I got some curious looks from the other guys at the range.

Next stop, sub sonic.


<center>
<font size=+3><b>Velocity Report</b></font><p>Caliber: 7.62x39<p>2007-03-27<br><br><font size=+2>Load Information</font><br><table width='100%' cols=2><tr><td><table cols=2 width='100%'><tr><td align='right'>Number Of Records:</td><td>9</td></tr><tr><td align='right'>Bullet Type:</td><td>FMJ M1 Carbine</td></tr><tr><td align='right'>Bullet Weight:</td><td>110 (gr)</td></tr></table></td><td><table cols=2 width='100%'><tr><td align='right'>Case:</td><td>Win</td></tr><tr><td align='right'>Primer:</td><td>CCI #34</td></tr><tr><td align='right'>Overall Length:</td><td>1.95</td></tr></table></td></tr><tr><td><table width='100%' cols=2><tr><td align='right'>Powder Type:</td><td>Unique </td></tr><tr><td align='right'>Powder Charge:</td><td>7 (gr)</td></tr>

<tr><td align='right'><br></td><td><br></td></tr></table></td><td><br></td></tr></table><font size=+2>Velocity Summary</font><table width='100%' cols=2><tr><td><table cols=2 width='100%'><tr><td align='right'>High Velocity:</td><td>1,407.0 ft/sec </td></tr><tr><td align='right'><b>Average Velocity:</b></td><td><b>1,378.3 ft/sec</b></td></tr><tr><td align='right'>Low Velocity:</td><td>1,361.0 ft/sec </td></tr><tr><td align='right'>Extreme Spread:</td><td>46.0 ft/sec</td></tr></table></td><td><table cols=2 width='100%'><tr><td align='right'>Average Deviation:</td><td>11.2 ft/sec</td></tr><tr><td align='right'>Standard Deviation:</td><td>14.5 ft/sec</td></tr><tr><td align='right'>Average Energy:</td><td>464.1 ft/lbs</td></tr><tr><td align='right'>Chronograph Distance&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>From Muzzle&nbsp;&nbsp;</td><td>about 12"</td></tr></table></td></tr></table>
</center>

<center>
<font size=+2>Velocity &amp; Energy Detail</font><table width='90%' cols=4 border=1 padding=0><tr><td align='center'>Shot #</td><td align='center'>Velocity (ft/sec)</td><td align='center'>Deviation From<br>Average Velocity (ft/sec)</td><td align='center'>Energy (ft/lbs)</td></tr><tr><td align='right'>1</td><td align='right'>1,361.0</td><td align='right'>-17.3</td><td align='right'>452.5</td></tr><tr><td align='right'>2</td><td align='right'>1,388.0</td><td align='right'>9.7</td><td align='right'>470.7</td></tr><tr><td align='right'>3</td><td align='right'>1,366.0</td><td align='right'>-12.3</td><td align='right'>455.9</td></tr><tr><td align='right'>4</td><td align='right'>1,381.0</td><td align='right'>2.7</td><td align='right'>465.9</td></tr><tr><td align='right'>5</td><td align='right'>1,373.0</td><td align='right'>-5.3</td><td align='right'>460.6</td></tr><tr><td align='right'>6</td><td align='right'>1,385.0</td><td align='right'>6.7</td><td align='right'>468.6</td></tr><tr><td align='right'>7</td><td align='right'>1,381.0</td><td align='right'>2.7</td><td align='right'>465.9</td></tr><tr><td align='right'>8</td><td align='right'>1,363.0</td><td align='right'>-15.3</td><td align='right'>453.9</td></tr><tr><td align='right'>9</td><td align='right'>1,407.0</td><td align='right'>28.7</td><td align='right'>483.7</td></tr></table>

</center>

[DYNOMIKE]

daschnoz~
Excellent report with lots of useful info..
Looking forward to the next installment..
Wondering if you would share your accuracy findings so far?
IE: Did you shoot for any kind of a Group, and what distance do you shoot at? ~25 or 50 Yards~

I note that you were pleased with the results and wonder 'IF" the Potential accuracy may have been part of that?

I have been using H-110 in my Carbine loads, but found some interesting data using HS-6..
So far my Experiments using HS-6 In .38, & .357 Loads show promise..
May try some Carbine loads using this powder and take the Chrono out soon..

[daschnoz]

As requested:

-25 yards
-Open sights (I'm not the best shot in the world and the gun does shoot to the right)
-Grid is 1 inch

http://www.kirbos.net/target1.jpg

Looking at the chrono data and the target, I can almost see the specific shots.
The "high" shot was the 1407
The 6 in the middle are those that were the single digit deviations
The 3 "low" shots are the 3 deviations in the teens - all slower than the average velocity.

If I can make these consistent, they shoot a 2" group at 25 yards - fine for a Sunday afternoon at the range. Not great, but what do you expect -- It's an AK (and they're .308 bullets).