I want your real opinion of Hesse recievers

[Light Fal]

really think of ordering a Hesse from fedeal just to see if it is really that bad.I have followed gary jeters build with much interest and think if all the negative thing said about them are true how can they get away with selling such a bad reciever. i'm really interested in those who have really put one together . thanks

[tool]

You want my honest opinion?

I just can't believe you're doing that when you can get an Imbel for around $50 more. For that extra money, you will get a guaranteed deal - a receiver that will be very well made and built within tolerances. With the Hesse....well, good luck.

[doubletap]

Originally posted by Light Fal:
really think of ordering a Hesse from fedeal just to see if it is really that bad.I have followed gary jeters build with much interest and think if all the negative thing said about them are true how can they get away with selling such a bad reciever. i'm really interested in those who have really put one together . thanks

Why would you order a Hesse, when you can get a Gear logo Imbel from Dealers Warehouse for $218.50? I have few issues with the Hesse I built up an R1 on, but there is no way it is an Imbel. Note that I built the same R1 kit on an Imbel first, then rebuilt it on the Hesse. I went from a .257" locking shoulder to a .269" to achieve the same measured headspace. This should tell you something about the specs. Would I build on a Hesse today? Heck no, when I can get an Imbel for that price!!

Just my opinion, and worth every cent you paid for it.

Doubletap

[Fred]

doubletap.. I built up two Imbel models with receivers in the 4500 serial # group. They both needed a 0.257" pin to be setup correctly. One of the receievers had the headspace pin ID way undersized and it was returned. The replacement receiver, s/n >9K headspaced at 0.263. I had to use a shim to compensate for the steel removed from the barrel. I put together another FAL on a very recent Imbel receiver this weekend for a friend and it needed a 0.260 pin. I think that there was a definite difference in tolerancing between the two s/n groups. This may account for your headspacing shift when going from Imbel to Hesse. This is not a recommendation for Hesse, but an observation in headspacing differences.

[W.E.G.]

I tried the Hesse because I really wanted to see if the deal was too good to be true. Should have trusted my instincts.

Reverse-egineering an out-of-spec part is not for beginners. A FALmaster might have a better chance than us regular guys.

[HW]

I have a G3 built on a Hesse reciever. It functions well, but (and this is a big one) you have to jam the magazine into the reciever. How the hell can you build someting so out of spec. I picked up a HK made 5rd hunting mag this week. I needed a screwdriver to get the mag out of the rifle.

If there FAL recievers are built to the same "exacting" standards I wouldnt touch it.


HW

[yorick]

I built 2 FAL with Hesse (3 on Imbel) bothe of the Hesse required major "tweaking" to get to work reliably.

Ie: relieving of barrel shoulder, smoothing of rails, releiving feed areas etc. Also one required retapping the gas tub nut threads as they were off center and out of spec.

They do both work fine now though, but I woulndn't recommend it for someone who doesn't enjoy (or at least doesn't mind) tweaking (ie filing, bashing, dremeling etc)

All three of the Imbel worked fine right off the bat, though two did need a little reliving of the barrel shoulder to time properly.

[stimpsonjcat]

Stimpy's opinion...they suck.

Never...let me repeat that...never again.

But i may try an Entreprise soon...who knows?

peace!

[juanni]

Light Fal

Well, it took this topic to get me off the sidelines and registered.
I recently purchased a metric Imbel and a metric Hesse receiver. My purpose was to compare the dimensional differences between the two and if necessary correct any problems.
The Hesse had a finish more befitting a third world hibachi than a firearm. However, my concern was the adherence to critical dimensions. Bristling with micrometers, dial indicators, gage blocks and a surface plate I forged ahead.
The Hesse receiver was miscast around the gas tube nut. At first glance, it appeared the hole was off-center. Instead, the receiver casting wall was thin on one side and thick on the other. One side measured 0.060” and the other 0.142”. The Imbel measured 0.100” and 0.102”. I fear this area would crack if the carry handle were installed and one good yank given. Additionally, the hole where the piston stem passes through the receiver was substantially larger and non-concentric, not so with the Imbel. The result is piston stem is not supported by the receiver, just the gas piston nut.
Next, I measured from the front face of the receiver to the bottom of the barrel shank hole. The Hesse was 0.025” shorter than the Imbel and my barrels. This creates the problem where the breach end of the barrel bottoms out long before the barrel shoulder contacts. Gary Jeter had this problem.
The magazine well was 0.053” longer than the Imbel and 0.065” farther forward than the Imbel. This creates a short feed ramp and magazines that can rotate down on the front causing feeding problems.
With the bolt carrier in the Imbel, there is 0.013” of lateral clearance and 0.008” of vertical clearance. The Hesse has 0.019” and 0.012” with the same carrier. This amount of slop allows the bolt carrier and bolt to shift to the right and rotate up away from the ejector. In this position the ejector barely contacts the spent case rim, I believe this may cut a notch in the rim rather than eject. Again, Gary Jeter experienced this problem.
My biggest problem with Hesse receivers is not milling, filing or dremeling away excess material, but how do you replace material that Hesse has already removed? Adding metal on a heat-treated alloy receiver is not an option I would pursue. Oversized parts, anyone? Where to you find a bolt carrier 0.006” oversized and magazines .050” longer?

An added bonus of purchasing the Hesse is getting the little warranty that isn’t. For if you modify, fit or alter the receiver, your warranty is VOID, regardless of how many monumental examples of defective workmanship the receiver displays. Ask me how I know?

For those Hesse apologists that say call Robert, I did. I spoke with the manufacturer of “only the finest quality products”. He was more interested in finding a reason to nullify the warranty than to offer an apology, explanation, excuse or remedy for this abortion. Interestingly, when I began to describe the relationship of the gas piston nut hole to the outside of the receiver, he jumped in and declared that the hole was centered properly but the receiver was miscast. My impression was that he was proud that the hole was centered amidst all the other blatant defects. What a badge of honor.

In my opinion, it’s inevitable that Hesse Arms will eventually go under and the sooner the better. The time to boycott Hesse is long overdue.

No More Hesse! No More Hesse!

[Light Fal]

NO hesse for me . i have some imbels coming soon the build my chilien with and if nobody wants the rest I'll store them till there are no more left.

[EMDII]

WELL!

As long as it ain't hearsay! Juanni and S-cat have the worst. I have a Hesse-built FALO-C that runs like a clock. Opinions vary. If it's Hesse-built, if it isn't; did CAI get their grubby hands on it? YadaYada. I'm no apologist. Mine works.

I think I prefer the Entreprise Type 1 I have lurking in a corner. And I will get a Entreprise Inch-pattern as soon as I save a few shekels.

IMBEL- great quality, undeniably. Good prices. One more foreign devil I have to exorcise, so I hunt up th E receivers.

DSA- great quality, $$$.

------------------
1*.....Train Like You Fight: Second Place is NOT an Option.

E.M. (Ted) Dannemiller II

[Jeffrey K Hampshire]

Howdy:

Heard a lot about Hesse receivers on this board but proceeded to order one anyway (I'm cheap and like a good challenge!). Purchased a SA R1 kit from Wholsale specifying "camo" if available, got what I asked for, BUT the bore is perfect (literaly like new no pitting or sighns of erosion), looks like its been through 2 world wars!
Cinched up the Hesse in a well padded vice (cheap, remember?) had to take a few thousands off the barrel breach face to time it, cranked it up and used the rods, put it all together and guess what? FUNCTIONED FLAWLESSLY! Only problem I have with the receiver is the hole for the BHO screw head is off a wee bit (dremel to the rescue). I know its not the best but my son and I have a great shooter for less than $375, not bad in my opinion.

[Jeffrey K Hampshire]

Howdy:

Heard a lot about Hesse receivers on this board but proceeded to order one anyway (I'm cheap and like a good challenge!). Purchased a SA R1 kit from Wholsale specifying "camo" if available, got what I asked for, BUT the bore is perfect (literaly like new no pitting or sighns of erosion), looks like its been through 2 world wars!
Cinched up the Hesse in a well padded vice (cheap, remember?) had to take a few thousands off the barrel breach face to time it, cranked it up and used the rods, put it all together and guess what? FUNCTIONED FLAWLESSLY! Only problem I have with the receiver is the hole for the BHO screw head is off a wee bit (dremel to the rescue). I know its not the best but my son and I have a great shooter for less than $375, not bad in my opinion.

[stimpsonjcat]

I think I may have finally beaten the Hesse Ted.

I have modified the ejector to move it to the right (not easy, very hard metal) to fix the problem Juanni mentions above. Last trip to the range I had modified it a little and finally saw soem marks showing where it had barely moved past the case and failed to eject. It has been moved laterally now to the point where there is almost no gap.

We'll see.

Parts modified in order to get Hesse to operate properly:
-gas piston
-bolt hold-open
-mag catch
-receiver (well duh)

Surprisingly enough...it did time flawlessly!

peace!

[hagar]

I must have lucked out, because I bought a CAI bastard FAL, STG kit with IZZY HB buttstock and handguards and Hesse receiver on the board about a year ago. The STG kit is to die for, I think it was unissued, this is the only second hand barrel I have not been able to get a ton of copper out of. Sweets 7.62 comes out pure white. Unfinished but looks good enough to keep it that way. It shoots great, just as reliable as my AZEX built FALS. Maybe a tad less accurate than my other IZZY lookalike, but that ones kick butt, will do about 1 MOA with Portuguese. So if I had to build one, will not consider a Hesse, but I have one and I'm happy!

[msnyder]

I built 3 R1's on Hesse Receivers. All rifle's function flawlessly. If I remember correctly all 3 needed extra large locking shoulders in the .269 range for proper headspace. All had to have a small amount of
barrel shoulder relieved. One had to have
the magazine release pivot screw hole threaded. Magazines fit snugly. No functioning problems in any of them. They
were 159 when I bought them and saved me 1 US part. I used FAC's $99 R1 kits so my goal was to build a very inexpensive FAL that functioned. Met the goal with total cost around 350-375. Harlan of FAC has stated a couple of times that only about 1 out of 10 or less Hesse receivers he sells are returned
so evidently quality varies.

[Viking Warrior]

"third world hibachi" Juanni, You crack me up.
Its so true. Maybe I can use it to cook hot dogs at a tailgate party.

[Timber Wolf]

Enterprise has their type 3s for $179 (I paid $230 but then I paid $650 for my CETME too) so why mess with a Hesse?

[FAL TAP]

I have 2 STRESSED receivers and 3 Imbels. Let me tell you that one works and I can't figure out why? The other I turned into a Dutch Oven Lid Lifter-- had a friend Mig weld a handle on.

If you like a dremel to express yourself through art buy a Hesse. If you like to shoot, then you should buy anything but...

Chili anybody? :(

[TooTech]

SyberSniper:

DPMS does have the FAL receivers listed on their site. Look for the "What's New" link on the bottom of the page listing their products. This link might take you there:
http://www.shooterstore.com/acb/webpage.cfm?&DID=90&WebPage_ID=238