WECSOG failure: Barrel install a G1 kit on a Hesse

[zoom]

My G1 barrel on my new Hesse receiver hand tightened to just over 11:00. I scribed a line so that I could more easily track my progress. From what I remember from the Gunplumber video, this is what you want, because you can tighten it the rest of the way without using too much force. Well, I couldn't. I broke a crescent wrench, then while hammering on a 1 1/16" wrench modified to fit the barrel, I broke my nearly 50 year-old vise that my father bought for me after I got home from Korea. The front half of the vise fell on my foot and I ripped my forearm open on the sharp corner of the vise when I feel forward when the receiver came lose. I'm a little upset about losing the vise. So, I decided I was in over my head, and I took all the parts over to a friend who is a mechanic that specializes in working on old tractors. He deals with a lot of stubborn fasteners, many of them large and rusted. He couldn't get the barrel to torque down either. After all of this, I looked at my scribed line, and the barrel hadn't tightened at all. In Gunplumber's notes, he states that the barrel should tighten a bit less than 30 degrees further with 100 foot pounds of pressure than where it stopped by hand tightening. Any ideas on why mine wouldn't turn at all even using excessive force?

Disheartened, we decided to unscrew the barrel to file some material off of the shoulder, but we couldn't get it unscrew even with heat and penetrating oil. I even pounded on my wrench with a BHD (big hammer device) until my hand was pounding in pain from the shock of holding the wrench. I don't understand how it could be stuck so well when it hasn't visibly turned from where it stopped from hand tightening it. It just doesn't seem possible. Any ideas on how to get the barrel off?

Thanks for any responses. I'm got to go back to cleaning-up the carpet and wall where I got blood on them.

[kotengu]

I have no idea how to help you but I think you definitely earned your WECSOG certification today! :eek:

[FXE]

Originally posted by Zoom Wilson:
<STRONG>...Any ideas on how to get the barrel off?</STRONG>

Zoom I had an Entreprize get stuck just shy of TDC! I was trying to tighten it without a Barrel Vise, couldn't get it to go to TDC! When I tried to remove it, it wouldn't budge! Finally had to make a Barrel Vise(Thanks www.Gunthings.com) (http://www.Gunthings.com)) and use an 18" Breaker Bar and a 4 Foot cheater Bar on my Receiver Wrench! When it finally broke loose, I thought I broke it(real loud SNAP)!

FWIW a little Anti-Seize on the threads and Shoulder helps to keep this from happening!

HTH
FXE

[zoom]

I've knocked off some of the corner of the top of the receiver near the carry handle with my crescent wrench, and I put some large dents along the sharp, blocky edges of the receiver. I haven't lost any important material yet. I'm not quite in WECSOG territory yet with the receiver. It doesn't have any places repaired with JB Weld, so it doesn't qualify. BTW, the Hesse has all of the elegance of a 2x4.

I destroyed a BEEGMOFO 6" vise, one that I had abused for years. It was a nice one that had very little backlash on the screw and the front had almost zero play on the facing. I still can't believe I broke it. My pounding foot keeps reminding me I did. That and the deep cut on my arm. I had coated my receiver in CLP before starting in a (weak) attempt to protect it, and I'm pretty sure I have some of it is in my cut. It stings badly. I feel sorry for the troops today that have to use CLP. CLP does not feel nice in a wound.

FXE, I couldn't get the barrel to keep from slipping in my vise. I even tried rosin. It helped, but not much. So, I was stuck with putting the receiver in the receiver block into a vise and trying to turn the barrel. We applied plenty of force. Of course, most of that force was from hammering. We ruined the face on a framing hammer and put some nice dings on the handle of the crescent wrench. Would constant, steady force from the wrench with a cheater bar work better? My friend that works on tractors never uses mechanic advantage. He uses a hammer.

With that said, I think I'm going to buy the barrel vise blocks from Bushmaster, unless someone knows of a local source for one around Columbia, SC. This is unless you guys know of a better set of vise blocks? A local gun smith has a pair that bolts together and it has holes in it that he uses to then bolt the blocks to his work bench. Anyone know where I can find one of those? Wile E. Coyote could do some damage with that. If not, the one from Bushmaster if $15. That will also give me a chance to buy a real NO GO gauge. Originally, I bought the kit to build it on a Hesse receiver that a friend bought with the group purchase. He was going to pay me back for the kit, and he has now decided he doesn't want it, because he won't be able to use it with commercial 308 ammo, so I'm stuck with paying for it. I really don't need to spend more money on this project, but it looks like I will have to.

It's a little too late for anti-seize compound now! Or, were you talking about anti-seize for myself?

I've since calmed down enough to start looking at the receiver and barrel more objectively. It looks like the breech face is touching the inside of the receiver. I think that's why the barrel won't turn. So, I'm definitely going to have to remove the barrel and remove some material with a file before I can torque it down. I'll let you guys know what happens after I find a barrel vise block.

[drcolossus]

Simply buy the proper tools. A receiver wrench and scrap aluminum blocks is all you will need. Hold the barrel in your vise( I have a hugh 60 year old Wilton) on the flats with the blocks and turn the receiver onto the barrel. No gouges or marks on any kind on the parts. Works every time.

[stimpsonjcat]

You could try heating the thread area on the receiver while trying to loosen. That might get the thread area to expand a bit and loosen it's deathgrip on the barrel.

Just a thought. Don't go nuts and make things glow though :eek:

[drcolossus]

Too early in the morning. Sorry, hit wrong key. "huge"

[drcolossus]

and "of" Ha,Ha,Ha...

[hsp223]

Zoom- look at the contact surfaces between the receiver and the barrel. Is the barrel shoulder in contact with the front of the receiver? Look inside the receiver and see if the barrel is in contact with the inner shoulder of the receiver as well. You may be in contact on these two areas and this would make it much harder or impossible to time correctly. Gary Jeter had a wonderfully humorus thread on this a while ago and has recently archived it. Well worth reading. As far as WECSOG failure, I think you get to go to the head of the class. (drew blood or broke toe, broke expensive or irreplacable piece of equipment, damaged more tools and still haven't gotten the thing fixed yet) Forget going to the head of the class I think you may be up for proffessorship depending on how this turns out.
Good luck

[Barry]

Originally posted by Zoom Wilson:
<STRONG>...Originally, I bought the kit to build it on a Hesse receiver that a friend bought with the group purchase. He was going to pay me back for the kit, and he has now decided he doesn't want it, because he won't be able to use it with commercial 308 ammo, so I'm stuck with paying for it. </STRONG>
Huh? Why can't he use it with commercial .308? They are no different than any other FAL. Oh, well, his loss, your gain.

<STRONG>
...It looks like the breech face is touching the inside of the receiver. I think that's why the barrel won't turn. So, I'm definitely going to have to remove the barrel and remove some material with a file before I can torque it down. I'll let you guys know what happens after I find a barrel vise block.</STRONG>
After I got that barrel off I'd not screw with it anymore. Hesse should make good on his crap. Or maybe send him the barreled reciever and make him fix the whole situation. That is utter bullshit!

[zoom]

Thanks for the responses guys. The cut on my arm still stings badly, and I assume that's from the CLP. Also, my foot while it still hurts, I can walk on it. I don't think I broke it. I can't believe I almost broke my string of nearly 50 perfect years without seeing a doctor. I guess you could say that I have my Doctorate (pun intended) in Wile E. Coyote School of Doctorn'.

Barry, I've read several stern warnings about not using commercial 308 ammo, because it is loaded to a much higher pressure than 7.62 NATO. My friend has a deep scar on the top of his hand where a revolver blew a cylinder on him when he was a cop. I understand his paranoia, especially since I'm about that paranoid now when comes to putting extreme pressure on a wrench. I tried yesterday at my friend's shop, and I just couldn't do it.

The barrel shoulder is in contact with the front of the receiver. It first touched that at a perfect 11 o'clock. It is also in contact with the inside of the receiver. If I could just get the barrel out, I'm sure that I could file the breech and get this thing done. Any extra ideas on how to relieve some of the stress inside the receiver?

I couldn't find Gary Jeter's thread on this problem, but I did find a great quote from him in another thread. It was, "A man's gotta work hard to build a really UGLY gun."

Get rid of the Hesse? I should have realized that the breech was in contact with the inner receiver before I torqued it down. I saw Gunplumber's warning in his notes, and I watched his (6 hour?) video twice. I'm mad at myself for not seeing it beforehand. Is this problem something serious enough that I'm justified in asking Hesse to fix it?z

[EMDII]

Yes, Robert Hesse SHOULD fix this.

[zoom]

OK, I talked to someone at Hesse that sounds like they know what they're talking about. He said that, just like a Mauser, both surfaces (barrel shoulder and breech) should come into contact at the same time. He sounded very confident of that.

His suggestion was to simply find a way to apply more torque, and that it is next to impossible to bend the receiver, as long as the bolt carrier is in place, even without a receiver wrench. He was insistent that if it stopped at 11:00 by hand, then I will be able to torque it down. So, is this what I should do? Do the WECSOG-like thing and keep applying torque until it either times or I break something? Or, should I keep trying to loosen it to then file material off of the back of the barrel and shoulder?z

[Caspian]

o.k., if you're going to torque the crap out of it, check one thing. BE SURE YOU HAVE THE HANDGUARD RETAINING RING ON!!!!!
I'd hate to hear how many more body parts you injured trying to get that sucker off after your installation ordeal.

Caspian "the forgetter of handguard retainer rings"

[zoom]

Caspian, after hearing Gunplumber warn about that about 100 times during his video, I taped mine to the front sight post. And, if I did accidentally leave it off, I wouldn't go through this mess again just to have handguards. I'd use an oven (or a chicken?) mitt or just shoot it w/ the bipod. No way in (expletive deleted) I would ever go through anything like this again to simply have a convenience like handguards.

I'm going to hit gun stores tomorrow in two different cities to look for barrel vise blocks or a gunsmith with a hunch cheater bar and an evil gleam in his eye.z

[gunhead]

I have seen many times where threads "Gall" up & one part has to be scraped in oder to save the other. They just gall together & will not come apart. Even during part assembly where threads of similiar material is concerned. Once they stop threading together by hand, do not force, put some WD-40 or other type of Lube, like break-free & gently tap one of the parts with a metal hammer(protect) while you are unscrewing them. Then check for thread contact & relieve them before the next attempt.
While this saved many Navy Nuclear Parts, it was not on Rifles but many be a similar problem!
GL....

[RICK G.]

did you say you had a reciever wrench? if so tighten it on the front of the reciever, tighten the vise on the reciever wrench, support barrel with pipe stand or something similer. put wrench not cresent wrench on barrel flats, if you have totap it on all the better. put a 4' cheater on your wrench, make sure of your footing and put constant pressure on cheater, should break loose. make sure your going in right direction. looking at the reciever from the barrel you should be pulling down on ejection port side of reciever. Rick G.

[zoom]

gunhead, I had only a little bit of CLP on the threads when I hit them w/ about 20 ft/lbs of torque. Tightening with twenty wouldn't release w/ (wild guess) 200 in an attempt to loosen. Next time, I'll use anti-seize compound, lesson learned. Your description of parts that just gall together (not sure of the proper way to phrase that), and having to scrap one is scary. I hope I don't have to. I have the barrel/receiver coated in penetrating oil near the barrel threads. I hope that over a weekend, it will help. I'll also tap it w/ a hammer when trying to loosen. I can see where that might help seperate the metal in the threads, and at the very least, help work the oil further into the threads.

Navy Nuclear Parts? Why do I have a sudden image of Wile E. Coyote with a big Acme box labeled "Navy Nuclear Parts?"z

[KP]

Zoom, don't lose hope, you will get that thing together. You just need the right tools. I have built on a Hesse receiver before. If you haven't already, you should go to gunthings.com and look at the plans for the barrel vise. If you don't want to melt lead then do what I am doing, use the Brownells Steel Bed epoxy. You really should consider a receiver wrench. I don't understand your friend's fear of commercial .308 being too hot. The FAL can handle just about anything. Once you get the right tools, I bet you won't even have to relieve the barrel shoulder. Keep us informed and good luck............ :p

[BBBBill]

If you have a reciever wrench( you really should to protect the reciever), be sure that it is not too tight. The wrench should be snug enough on the reciever to prevent slipping and properly support the reciever. Any tighter and you are actually crushing the reciever threads into the barrel threads. It is too tight if you can install the wrench on he reciever and not be able to thread the barrel on by hand as easily as without the reciever wrench installed. I prefer to clamp the barrel flats in a heavy milling machine vise and turn the reciever. That way you are not crushing the reciever down on the threads causing the same problem. Whichever method or vise you use, be sure that you clamp so that there is equal pressure on the vise jaws. Use some scrap steel in the opposite end of the jaws to do this. Otherwise, you will load the vise unevenly and risk breaking it. I use a bushing that I made from scrap to fit around the barrel with some clearance for this job. It is the same width across the flats as the barrel. Use a pair of vice grip pliers to clamp over the jaws of your crescent wrench to keep the jaws from spreading for the same reason. [edit] I said crescent, but meant open end wrench.
OK, I talked to someone at Hesse ... He said that, just like a Mauser, both surfaces (barrel shoulder and breech) should come into contact at the same time.
None of the 12 that I've built contact on the inner face. The closest fit there was still about .003" clearance. All were built on DSA or IMBEL with STG and IMBEL kits. Can't speak for HESSE. I don't think that would be a problem if every thing else is correct. Some experts say that the Mauser actually should come in contact at the rear face before it does at the shoulder. I've built them with shoulder contact first and no problems. YMMV

[ August 31, 2001: Message edited by: BBBBill ]

[hsp223]

I have noticed the Hesse receivers have the threads bottoming out on an inner surface in the receiver. The Imbel and numberous FN produced stubs have a relief cut at the base of the threads. The Hesse threads have been parkerized and some of the park is a little thick. It is possible that this is what is causing the sticking and/or galling. Definatly use a cheater bar to unscrew the barrel, you will get more leverage than a hammer. Tapping the barrel or receiver with a hammer while unscrewing will help to unlock the threads. If you are turning the barrel with a wrench and using the cheater bar on the wrench please use a tight fitting wrench. A cresent wrench will not do the job, it has to much play and it will slip off or damage the barrel flats. Find a 1 1/16 or 27mm open end wrench and file to fit using a hammer to tap it on.

Once you get the barrel off take a break have a beer and then blueprint your receiver before doing anything to it. Measure all the holes and make sure they are concentric and not misaligned or offset. The ones that are offset that I have heard of are the retaining screw hole for the BHO and mag catch parts and the gas piston hole. Check these by trying the retaining screw or by putting the gas nut screw in and running a piston thru it to see if there is any binding. Check the feed lips and slot that the hammer comes thru to see if they need any work. The most important check comes next and that is headspacing. With a barrel handtighened to the receiver check the surfaces of the barrel that abut with the receiver. These include the face of the receiver that the shoulder abuts to and the inner shoulder that the breech of the barrel should come close to touching. Often there is casting burs that get in the way. the depth from the front face of the receiver to the bottom of the threads on my Hesse measured .806 to .817 at different locations. The Imbel measured .829 and some leftover stubs measured from .817-.825. Also the Imbel and others have a relief cut at the bottom of the threads whereas the Hesse doesn't. I appears that the Hesse may be a bit short in the threads meaning that the barrel breech could come in contact with the inner surface before or at the same time the barrel shoulder does preventing proper timing. To correct this a little material from the inner surface would need to be removed.
Check headspacing before torqeing on the barrel. With a hand tight barrel put the nogo guage in and the bolt (stripped) without the carrier. Use pin guages (.265-.275 range) to get an estimate of the size of locking shoulder you will need. You must take into account the size of the nogo guage and that the barrel will still travel back about .07 if your barrel is at 10:00-10:30. This will give you a rough estimate only and tell you that the LS hole is in the right place. While you are doing this check the headspace with the bolt and bolt carrier in place. If you get a 1/8 inch gap between the carrier and the surface it abuts to then the top edge of the bolt may be hitting the upper part of the receiver and this may need a little filing. Also check to see how well the top cover fits and how good the recever mates with the lower as well as if it locks closed etc.

Finding out all these little details and fixing them before barreling will remove a ton of frustration. To be honest, I think I have one of the most out of spec receivers of the latest group buy of Hesse's and discovering the inconsistancies will make building on this receiver a pleasureable experience. HTH

[zoom]

BBBBill, I think you have a very good point about crushing the receiver threads into the barrel threads. That might be one reason why it won't come off with an insane amount of torque when I only used about 20 ft/#'s of force when tightening it. I could have crushed the receiver a little, and I assume it wouldn't take much.

You also mentioned to try to keep an even load on the vise. Yes, that might be what caused mine to fail. I had the receiver wrench torqued down on one side of the vise so that I could get to the barrel flats. I don't have any metal stock around, so I'll have to find something to use before I break a friend's vise.

About the contact on the inner face, Gunplumber says in his notes that he has heard FAL's are more accurate with a large amount of clearance (was like 0.02" if I remember correctly). I don't really care about accuracy. I can't see well enough for it to matter. I just want the thing to shoot.

Gary Jeter, thanks for the link to the thread. I think I'm going to go take an anti-acid now. I'm feeling a little sick.

hsp223, you are correct about the nice thick finish on the threads of the Hesse. The best finish on the entire part is (was) on the threads. If I can get the barrel off, I'm going to remove every single bit of the finish. I didn't think about tapping the wrench on to the barrel. That's a good idea. Also, I'm going to have to buy another new wrench to ruin, because mine is loose already.

You suggested making sure the gas piston doesn't bind. It does. I guess that's one more thing to fix after I get the barrel timed.

Before I torqued the barrel down, I had the barrel at 360 degrees undertimed, and I cycled rounds through the action. The were live rounds, but I removed the hammer first, so I think I was safe. Either way, I wore gloves, safety glasses, and kept the barrel pointed in a safe direction. I cycled twenty rounds by hand without a problem. Other than the barrel timing and the gas piston binding, it looks good.

Thanks for all of the help guys. I'll either get this to work, or I'll mail the pieces of the receiver back to Hesse.

[Nachoman]

Thanks alot guys. You're making me feel real good about ordering a Williams receiver. :)

[LAFAL]

Hey, Nachoman, I know what you mean. If I didn't have the Hekke (pronounced like hawking up a lougie would sound) barreled and headspaced now I'd consider buying a Williams Al++ receiver, too. I've had to file the bbl shoulders to get it to time, relieve the extractor area inside the receiver, thin down the left inside area so the bolt carrier would ride forward into battery. Funny how it headspaces easier when you do that. After doing that I even got to use the locking shoulder from the aussie kit!
Now if I can just figure out where all the extra parts go. I haven't lost any blood so I don't think I can use my Hekke/ Aussie kit for WECSOG credits. Maybe if it actually shoots without blowing up........
many thanks to Gary J for answering emails and helpful advice. LEE LAFAL

[ce]

Jeepers, Mr. Wilson, I thought you had enough help here so I didn't offer to muddle the issue further with more sage advice.

May I suggest- the fail safe, the last word, the ne plus ultra, the final solution-
the pipe wrench.

Squeeze the receiver firmly in a solid vise allowing no movement, of course, and tighten the 14" securely on the barrel flats, slip a three foot pipe over the end of the wrench, lift and separate, and cross over to a better figure.

If the teeth on the wrench bite into the barrel, um so besser, it will undoubtedly yield to your intentions.

File a bit off the barrel shoulder and Dremel out the inner recess of the receiver for good measure,assemble, torque, and test fire.

My tractor fixin' friend would use nothing less than a 4' pipe wrench until I made him some open ends filed to fit.Once the handguard ring is on, the mangled metal is a scar of the experience, adding to the mystique.

[gw11]

Zoom, The clean threads are the way to go, if you ever get the barrel off! Your barrel should turn freely, by hand ,till it contacts the outer shoulder of the receiver!!
The inner shoulder of the receiver should not come in contact with the barrel!
At 11:00 you should have .008 to .012 clearance between the two inner surfaces.
If you are contacting the inner surface already at or before TDC, you can easily end up in trouble!
The barrel face has a recess cut out for the extractor! Each side of this cutout has a surface that will cut into the receiver face. Once this cutting action starts, the receiver face is no longer Flat!
You then have a 1/2inch locking lug type area on the face of the receiver, between the two edges of the recess.
So then,the barrel may not be able to get to the TDC with even Two Hundred lbs. pressure.
This lug area is what makes removeing most old receivers such a difficult job. Usually it ends up being a cut the receiver type deal.
You need to remove the barrel! and reset eveything!
You also need to make sure the piston slides freely Before You are done Timing!!!!!! This is not accomplished after!
Usually I use the rod end of my buttstock tool with a little tape around it to increase the dia. This rod is inserted in the handguard bolt hole of the front sight block.
And a Foot long straight edge lying on the flats of the rear of the receiver. When these two surfaces are aligned and the piston slides all the way in freely , your done!
This contact area on the inner surfaces also affects the accuracy of the gun!
Good Luck! Hope your foot feels better!
gw11

[Radio]

Am I just a nut, or would a little application of heat help things along?

Wait, I can't be a nut, I don't build on Hesse... ;) ;) ;)

From crushing the threads to excess park to torque multiplication through long cheater bar, I think these guys just about covered everything else. Good luck.

--Radio

[boblunger]

Everythings covered, so I'll say my .02. I've had this happen on many kits, the barrel breach will bottom on the receiver before the barrel's shoulds contact the face of the receiver. I've fixed the problem 2 ways. Sometimes, moly grease will work, I don't put any on dry because I'm afraid I might gall the threads. The other way I've fixed the problem is to stone the rear of the breach. You can't do much or you may need to rechamber, but most of the time it only takes some cleanup on the barrell. good luck.

[gw11]

Personally I would borrow Gary.Jeters [Super Dremel] with his handy stock of cut off wheels and do some slicin!
And in a minute {{ OOPS! Looky There!!}}- Then I'd Go out and buy a real receiver!
Although I can't talk, I used Loctite on a barrel once, and hesitated before it was at TDC. That was an OOPS! [Torch Time].
So Once is all it takes,to find that we are all Nuts!
Look what we do for Adventure!
gw11

[FootLongCuban]

Not to brag...ok Im bragging, but I have YET to find a receiver I cant remove or install with my handy, dandy receiver wrench. Why am I telling you this? Because I barreld my very first FAL using a bench vise and a 27mm open end wrench, and I said.."NEVER AGAIN".

See Pic.
Thats 2 feet and 20 pounds of cold rolled steel.
http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/footlongcuban/falwrench_back.jpg

[ August 31, 2001: Message edited by: FootLongCuban ]

[WJ-Polish Guy]

Yaki,yaki... Long time I did not visited this forum, and I see you guys realy have fun ;)
I say nothing bout how to torque/time barrel on Hesse :p ...

Now to abort fail barreling process :rolleyes: , Hmmm... First of all, I do not belive you had any barrel`s FLATS left, theofere there is nothing for wrench or jaws to grab into.
First thing to do is to restore flats, as good as possible, using small file, straight edge and v. caliper to control progress.

After that, you need to find good vise, where jaws are not to tall, so is less flexing.
Mount the barrel in the vise PARALLEL to the floor, tighten good (do not crush...). Place reciver wrench.

NOW importand thing! For cheater bar you need something which will NOT FLEX! I would recommand 3/4 drive breaking bar (Sears has it f.e...) with BFP slipped over it it (Big Fucken Pipe...) F.e. your neighbor`s fence post would work just fine...
NOW, after you have taken all backlash from the bar assy, deliver quick strong crunch, thats all it take :cool: Hope it help...

BTW, with barrel finaly removed, do more work on those flats, before next barreling as you will have good acces now....

[zoom]

A small success! I had plenty of time to work on the rifle, because my power was out for three days! It's going to be off again weekend after next for two more days. I've had bad withdrawal symptoms from not being able to get to here, Usenet, or ar15.com. I've gained some sympathy for what drug addicts and alcoholics (AlGoreholics?) go through.

My small success? I got the barrel off! First, I bought a 1 1/16" wrench. Next, I cleaned-up the barrel flats, and hammered some of the gouges-out. When hammered on, the wrench was much more secure than the crescent wrench. Now, I see why everyone suggests not using a crescent wrench. I put the receiver in my receiver block in a vise, then I put about 50 pounds of force downward on my wrench and 5' (yes, I like big) cheater bar. It broke free, and I fell down. I don't know if that was from losing balance because I was leaning on the bar, or if it was simply from surprise. I did bend my cheater bar and ruined my receiver block. I've decided to eat sandwiches for lunch for the next two weeks so that I can afford a nice receiver block (Casey Elliott, probably) before I try to torque it down for real. I don't think that $65 will be a waste of money, because I think I can easily sell it on the board for $45. $20 net is well worth it.

After I got the barrel off, I looked at the inner shoulder on the receiver. It looks like the barrel did come into contact with the inner shoulder. I believe now that the inner shoulder comes into contact before the outer. (I think I'm using the correct terminology there). It's time to get out the file.

ce, pipe wrench on the barrel? I'm embarrassed to admit that my barrel already looks like I've done that. I've got huge gouges where the barrel slipped in the vise, where my crescent wrench slipped, and where I knocked the receiver block into the barrel after it slipped. You're probably right that I should have just let my friend attack it w/ a BFP. He has a (guess) 5' pipe wrench that I've seen him dragging along behind him. We could have probably barreled that Hesse without breaking a sweat. My concern was that the gouges would be so deep that they would cut all of the way through to the inside of the barrel. Now that would be Wile E. Coyote-like.

gw11, I was just playing around with the barrel, when I found that I couldn't remove it. I hate to think what would have happened if I had applied lots of torque when tightening and used loctite. I might have had to do what you did, use a torch. I was planning on using loctite when building my FAL, but I'm not planning on that now.

Mr. Jeter, your slam fire store is well known around here. I might be a member of WECSOG, but I am NOT a member of the Wile E. Coyote School of Safety. At no time, do I point a loaded rifle at my feet, like a cartoon character would. The rifle was pointed in a safe direction the entire time. I bought a couple of 308 snap caps, but they were made out of cheap plastic. The gouges in the plastic from cycling a few times through has made them useless. So, I use real rounds, and I'm very, very careful with where I point the muzzle and with the protection I wear. I think a full-face mask (I bought for soldiering), safety glasses, kevlar gloves and (a ratty old) bullet proof vest are pretty good protection. I feel more vulnerable at the range than I do at home cycling rounds.

[ce]

Well done, Wilson, old boy, you have learned a great many lessons here in your circuitous route to the beginning.
Hopefully you've gleaned enough expertise from these discussions to overcome doubt and hesitation and carry on, your next live rounds should discharge projectiles from the front and cases from the side.

[ce]

What are you saying, Gary, that as heir to the Kevlar fortune you can get us a group discount on buckets of goo?
Or mebbe you got a Kevlar spatula and a set of Kevlar shower rings?
Howsabout you ask dear old dad to develop some sort of Mattel Creepy Crawler injection molding kit so we can cook up the Kevlar upper, right in the old bedroom...

[zoom]

Anyone else have a scary image of the Jeter Kevlar armoured Dremel tool? It cuts through weapons like hot butter, and it's bullet proof. There's no stopping him now. Not that there was before.

[gw11]

ZOOM
If you were true WECSOG Material, You would have supplied us with the full range of entertainment,[ Full Picture Spread, Blood Stains, Dremel Sparks a Flyin, Shirt Sleeves a Burnin! The True WECSOG Experience!!
BUT instead you only Tempted us with Clever little Stories of you exploit's.
THAT'S NOT ENOUGH! WE WANT MORE!!!!!!
WE WANT MORE!!!!!!
WE WANT MORE!!!!!!
Gary Jeter Didn't become the FALFILES WECSOG REP by being polite and understanding and sparing the Gore, NO! Screw The Bullet Holes! He showed us Grime and Grizzle and The Essence Of True WECSOGIZM!
Don't Give up LITTLE 'ZOOM' YOUR FUTURE IS BRITE. AND IT'S JUST AROUND THE CORNER.

I think I've said enough! Boy! am I going to get trashed!
could'nt help it!
gw11

[ September 05, 2001: Message edited by: gw11 ]

[ September 05, 2001: Message edited by: gw11 ]

[Chief351]

Originally posted by Caspian:
<STRONG>o.k., if you're going to torque the crap out of it, check one thing. BE SURE YOU HAVE THE HANDGUARD RETAINING RING ON!!!!!
I'd hate to hear how many more body parts you injured trying to get that sucker off after your installation ordeal.

Caspian "the forgetter of handguard retainer rings"</STRONG>

Good one, Caspian!!! ALMOST been there, myself (whew!).

Don't be so sure that the breech is against the inside feed ramp area of the receiver. When you start to get close to TDC there's VERY LITTLE clearance here! I kept checking it by slipping a piece of paper in the gap, just to make myself feel better while straining at the breaker bar!

[zoom]

Let's get a few things straight. I am not a "shade tree" gun smith, because I want to be. I'm one, because shooting is a hobby that I can't afford so I try to save a little on labor. Also, friends and family now see me as the "gun guy," so in addition to having them pile their old TV's, stereo's, and computers on my doorstep when they're looking for help, I now have them bringing guns I know nothing about. Every time I'm around my relatives, they ask me gun related questions. It's hard being the gun expert, especially considering I bought my first rifle in January. I'm not an expert, and I'm tired of doing their research. Of course, when one of them mentions buying a Jennings or Lorcin, I have to take half of a day off of work to show them a real gun.

As I said, I bought a receiver wrench, a buttstock tool, and a nice 1 1/16" wrench to use on the barrel. I've also made barrel vise blocks out of channel iron and lead. Now that I have all of the tools, what I was afraid would happen, is probably going to happen. I have every excuse to buy the parts to put together another FAL. This is what I was trying to avoid. I see now how you guys get sucked into this.

Seriously gw11, I don't live-up to Gary Jeter's legend, and I never will. I don't own a camera, much less a digital camera, so I'm not going to be posting pictures here of puckering scars or blood covered floors. Of course, if I had a picture of my wife standing in the hospital emergency room with a pair of needle nose pliers (literally) stuck up her nose from trying to help me remove a frame pin from a Kel Tec P32, then I'd probably win an award.

No gw11, I'm not going to pander to this call for blood. I guess I could post a picture of the pile of pieces of Dremel cut-off wheels that I'm quickly collecting. I now understand why they sell so many of those things in the packs. It's because they're only made to last for 5 seconds of real work.

PS: Which is more dangerous for a WECSOG student, standing in front of a loaded gun or working on the gun?

[gw11]

"Quote"
PS: Which is more dangerous for a WECSOG student, standing in front of a loaded gun or working on the gun?

Zoom! Going by your past posts!,
I'D SAY THE ODDS ARE JUST ABOUT EVEN!

Please do let us know how your gun turns out.
gw11

[blackboots]

"No gw11, I'm not going to pander to this call for blood. I guess I could post a picture of the pile of pieces of Dremel cut-off wheels that I'm quickly collecting. I now understand why they sell so many of those things in the packs. It's because they're only made to last for 5 seconds of real work."

They make a fiber impreginated type cutting wheel that last's MUCH longer, I hate those cheap little one's....


;)

[gumby]

How about removing the firing pin instead of the hammer?