WECSOG barrel adventure

[W.E.G.]

I honestly did try to get that damn muzzle-thingy off the barrel of my
group-buy kit.

I clamped the barrel in barrel blocks. I hammered an open-end wrench
onto the flats.
I twisted on it like there was no tomorrow (clockwise). Heck..I even
tried counterclockwise because the right wrong-way wasn't doing anything.

It wouldn't budge

I heated it up. Not just warm. Not just dull red. We're talking cherry
red. I even waited for it to cool before I touched it this time. Still nothing
happening. I sprayed Break Free AND WD-40 on it. I let it sit for a day.
Still tight as ever. Beginning to wonder whether it is soldered or brazed.

Even gave it a try with vise-grip pliers locked on the thingy.
Nothing
...well except DEEP gouges in the muzzle-thingy.

http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/gary.jeter/visegrip.jpg

The picture is kinda fuzzy. But, so are my FAL-building skills.

Screw it. Where's my DREMEL. I'm cutting this mutha off. I'll show it
who's boss.

OK. Commence to Dremeling...zippety doo-dah, zippety hey...

http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/gary.jeter/dremeling.jpg

Making some progress now. Sure am glad that Santa put lots of cutoff
wheels in my stocking. Check out the incision.

http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/gary.jeter/incision.jpg

Bzzzzzeeeyooo-eyooo-eyooeeoo. Man, this sure is taking a lot of cutting.
Some of these cuts look kinda deep. I still dont see any sign of the
junction between the thingy and the barrel. I know. I'll take a break,
and hit the thingy a few times with a hammer. Maybe it'll crack open
like Belgian Brake on the half-shell. Whack! Whack! There she goes!
Come on off there you sack of...uh oh. Houston, we have a problem.
I think those cuts are going to be more than "interrupted threads."
OooOooh...all the way to the rifling on some of 'em.

http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/gary.jeter/oops.jpg

I don't reckon I should fill those holes with solder. Well when life dishes
you up chicken $hit, I say make chicken soup. I've been looking for
a reason to build a shorty! Where's Dad's ol' hacksaw.
I even
found his old tubing cutter in the bottom of the tool box. I used that
to mark the line for cutting. About a half-hour and one broken hacksaw
blade later, the afflicted area was excised. But the cut looked rough
as a cob. I think I could have gotten a cleaner cut (and for sure a quicker
one) if I had just laid the barrel across the train tracks.

Aha! another opportunity to use that file that I used to bugger-up
the barrel on my first kit.
See
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16885&highlight=Hesse

Stroke, stroke, stroke...rotate the barrel a few degrees...repeat

Not looking too bad now. Got some 400 grit sandpaper to clean up
the file marks. Worked well also to break the sharp edge on the cut
and by pressing my finger into the muzzle as I worked
the
sandpaper, it put a gentle crown on the muzzle.

Check it out!

http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/gary.jeter/cut-white.jpg

Still looks unfinished. Whip out the last few splashes of Oxpho-Blue
(cold-blue). Tried wiping it on with a Kleenex. Hmmm...not taking the
blue too well. There can't be more than two tablespoons left in the
bottle. Aha! Stick the muzzle into the bottle, and shake, shake, shake!
It works!

http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/gary.jeter/cut-blue.jpg

Doesn't look too bad if I don't say so myself. 18 1/4" No brake.
Should be brite!!!

...maybe I could use the Dremel to cut some "magnaports" in the top
of the barrel...?

http://assaultweb.net/ubb/emoticons/108.gif

[Jen]

I think you definitely passed the WECSOG Muzzle Brake Removal 101 Course.. *ROFL* And while you were at it Barrel Shortening 101.

Are you going to use the File or the Dremel to rethread the muzzle? :eek:

Next time just ask for a kit with the muzzle brake removed ;)

[W.E.G.]

Can I use a chisel to taper the muzzle?

Next time???
You got orphan kits that need a home?

[Plucky Purcell]

gary.jeter EXCELLENT POST! The pics are great and the play-by-play is hillarious. I admit it, I was actually laughing out loud.

All in all the barrel turned out pretty good too.

Congrats.

[1006587]

If you are going to use the smoke wrench... The threads start just forward of the wrench flats and extend to about the first holes in the brake. I didn't know this, might help someone else. MAPP gas,vice grips, hammer, four letter words, worked great on mine.

[1006587]

Gary,
your cut off wheels look like the mass quantity cheap ones. Have you tried the expensive reinforced type? Don't break up like the ones in your picture. One wheel, one receiver stub removed. ;)

[Dano]

Very funny! But I think I would have used a pipe wrench to remove the muzzle device. A BIG one.

[Dirtfarmer]

Originally posted by gary.jeter:
<STRONG>Screw it, Wheres' my DREMEL(!!!!)]</STRONG>
mmmmmbwuhahahahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!
Goodwill,
-Dirtfarmer

[Magister]

Man you depress me. I had been working so hard on earning my diploma that when I wanted to remove the dual device from my (non group deal) parts kit that I just used a large pipe wrench. That and 2 beers and a vice it "POPPED" and off it came.

I feel so so normal now....... :o

[msu89dawgs]

I was thinking of using a one-pound block of C4 (it's always funnier when the coyote gets blown all to he##)...

[ce]

Another brilliant effort from the Dean of the Dremel Class at WECSOG !! Unwavering determination to succeed, coupled with the right combination of tools, has once again triumphed over massive resistance!
I would concur with Dano, and in fact, recommend TWO pipe wrenches, one going either way, stand on the first, put a cheater pipe on the second, just don't fall over, cause set up is kinda tricky...
Don't worry about the resultant marring, it adds lots of Character.
You should see the barrel flats on a pristine STG from the early days, sorta looks like metallic hamburger. Fierce resistance from a receiver stub that had been burned black and blue with an acetalene torch was finally overcome by a 4 foot aluminum pipe wrench with hardened steel jaws.
The liberated barrel was then assesed at being "close", and forcefully forced with a forceful forcing of a very agressive 24" pipe wrench into an acceptable crush fit.
A little file work to get the handguard ring hammered on, and it would take a WECSOG graduate to tell the difference from the work performed at Liege or Wien.
By the way, the English kits from Wholesale are beauteous, and at $187.87 delivered, offer a challenge that cannot be ignored.
Just try to fit the charging handle...

[Blood of Tyrants]

You DID know that it is threaded on with LEFT-HAND threads, didn't you?

[Wadman]

Wow. I guess they really didn't want that flash hider coming off by accident. Doesn't even look like there's any solder.

[W.E.G.]

My humble assistant theorized that they
painted the barrel and the thingy with the
secret-formula "bulletproof" polymer finish
just before installing the thingy. That, and
30+ years of curing and exposure to heat and
congealed mystery bore-oil combined to
create a mystery super-glue to rival a
genetic hybrid of epoxy and weld.

"Left-hand threads"....hmmm...? No, I'm
right-handed. I don't think I could have
done better from the weak side.

[ May 29, 2001: Message edited by: gary.jeter ]

[Ekie]

Best post I have seen here.

[kev]

Classic .jeter, believe me.

[Newbie2FALs]

Iam truely humbled by the WECSOG master Aromrer :D

[farranger]

This is too too good, not that I could have done any better, the hell of it is does wecsog apply to bicycles and transmissions and other things, or at least do the principles apply, because I do that stuff pretty good, I'm just now applying it to more guns, but you should see the old barrel of a 10-22 I modified at 16, wow. Thanks for the lessons. Kyle :D

[W.E.G.]

Yee-Hah!!!

She lives now. Gonna test her in about 31 hours.

http://www.erols.com/gary.jeter/short-FAL.jpg

[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: gary.jeter ]

[zoom]

Congratulations! After my ordeal this week, I can really appreciate the work you've gone to. I hope that sometime in the next few weeks, I can post the same.z

[FootLongCuban]

Easiest way to remove a round muzzle device, ie: belgian style, stoll, south african combo, is to put the FLASH HIDER in your barrel vise, (its round aint it?), NOT the barrel. Once secure in your barrel vise just grab the barrel with your 27mm wrench and turn or grab the bi-pod legs, 0r if the old receiver stub is still attached slip a broom handle or bar into the end and turn. Flashider will come right off.

....Im not saying that it wouldnt be fun to spend a half hour destroying OEM equipment with a moto-tool but next time try just cutting where the actual threads are. ;)

[ September 01, 2001: Message edited by: FootLongCuban ]

[WJ-Polish Guy]

Friendly techno advice from PG

If you intention was to cut off the threads, why to fight stuck FH? Just cut of the barrel behind the FH, using FH edge as a guide for hacksaw.

If forced to femove stuck FH, why to cut for full its lehght. Cut in the thread area, place chisel in the grove, give it a whack to spread it and voila!

I wondered why people became "cold surgeons", there is no money there. They just enjoy all that ripping and cutting the flesh hehe...

[W.E.G.]

She rocks!

Eats everything: Chilean, Singapore, Malaysian, LC tracer, and a pile of mystery ammo which was labelled "GO BANG."
Altogether about 150 rounds.

TAPCO piston held up fine. Had to run the gas system full-closed though. I might tweak the port some when I get a chance.

The DSA fire h/t/s put the dreaded ding in the hammer spring plunger housing. Might need to dremel the high spot off the hammer.

Barrel seemed to be indexed well. A six o'clock hold on tin cans at 40 yards made them jump briskly to the right. I'll eventually play with the sights.

Headspace measured about 1.635 when I tore her down for post-range inspection. Locking shoulder might have set back a smidge. Still won't close on a no-go.

[W.E.G.]

I dremeled it some more last night. The screw that holds-in the BHO was stickin' out some, so I chucked it up in my Daddy's old 1958 hand drill motor, and I held a dull file against the innner half of the threads. It jumped around some, but I did get the threads whittled down to where I can get it to screw-in almost all the way now. The screw shaft looks pretty nasty from where the file slipped when I was trying to hold onto the drill motor and and file at the same time. But, you can't see it when it's assembled.

BTW, the last shot before the BHO broke in two on Saturday was an "X!" I reckon the barrel survived my assault.

[alfajim]

At what point does a person become concerned that the barrel will twist putting the amount of pressure described by some people.

[Radio]

Do you mean truely, actually, physically TWIST so that the lands will display an inconsistent spiral?? Yikes!! How much torque? LOTS. A whole bunch more than we're normally talkin' here, I'd imagine at LEAST 200 ft-lbs and going UP from there!!

Not to suggest it can't be done. That's the story behind the "freebored" StG kits Federal Arms sold about a year ago; so much force was applied when unbarreling the receivers that the barrels actually twisted near the chambers and the freeboring was to remove the damaged portion of the lands.

If you can do it, you be da big strong fella! Yah! Dontcha come over to my hoose and chop da wood, yah? Shoor!!

--Radio ;)

[alfajim]

I was curious , I am a mechanic and I have done alot of twisting ofer the last 20 years and broke my fair share of breaker bars. I know a tube is strong but I was hearing stories of what sounded like alot of pressure and started wondering about what it would take to put a little more or less twist in the barrel. Cutting it off with a dremal/ diegrinder saves alot of force being applied to the barrel.

[W.E.G.]

I thought the story on the "freebored" barrels
was that they squashed the barrel near the chamber,
thereby requiring the freebore process to restore
correct diameter. I never heard that the barrels
were actually twisted out of spec.

[blackboots]

So you managed to cut and re-crown sucessfully by hand? The re-crown part interist's me, been wondering about that.
Care to elaborate? :D

[Benjamin]

I see two hands working on the barrel in that second picture. How did you take that picture?

Actually, I should probably ask 'who was crazy enough to take that picture in the presence of a true WEC Gunsmith with a dremmel in hand ?'

[W.E.G.]

The little coyote took the pic. Its a wonder I
could even see to dremel after he flashed me in
the eyes as soon as I handed him the camera!

Aint nuthin' to that crownin' bidness. Just hacksaw-off
the end of the barrel. Smooth the saw marks with
a big ol' file. Smooth the file marks with a piece
of coarse sandpaper, followed by piece of fine
sandpaper. Once the you get the end of the barrel
looking respectable, you just lay a piece of fine
sandpaper across the muzzle and take your index
finger like you is pickin' a booger and rotate
it on the end of the muzzle so as to make the
sharp edge of the cut into a "crown." Works like
a damn.

[kotengu]

Man - I'm having an "Uncle Remus" flashback :p

[blackboots]

well crap, all this time i was thinking I'm gonna actually have to take it to a gunsmith for a recrown, think I'll experiment on the trusty old SKS... :)

thank you! :D

[W.E.G.]

graphics by blackbird
http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/a/t/atki8951/wecsog2.jpg

[Gewehr3]

Chuck Jones would be proud!

[DUCTTAPE]

I love the "booger " analogy !!!
Been laughing my ass off reading this thread,my wife said that "WE" sound related since I simply adore my DREMEL also.
Great job! My hat's off too you.

[Mr Geek]

I have read of crowning by welding A ball bearing to a rod( cross your fingers to get it stright) and chuckin it in a drill and applying some liquid abrasive to the ball.
This may help reduce cuts on the finger from the booger pickin Method. And provide more uniform results.

[Muggzy]

This will have them flocking in from the other boards. LMAO.
Funniest thing in awhile

[gun_collector]

Could you use a 30 caliber M1 Garand or a M1A recrowning tool?

It comes with a pilot and you simply spin it.

I read the Garand/M1A match shooters do this every couple hundred rounds.

[Sgt_Gold]

>Headspace measured about 1.635 when I tore her
>down for post-range inspection. Locking shoulder might >have set back a smidge. Still won't close on a no-go.

Why do you want to close on a no-go? That means barrel replacement time.

[W.E.G.]

Originally posted by Sgt_Gold
>Headspace measured about 1.635 when I tore her
>down for post-range inspection. Locking shoulder might >have set back a smidge. Still won't close on a no-go.

Why do you want to close on a no-go? That means barrel replacement time.


I have no problem with a FAL that headspaces at 1.635. If it starts getting beyond that, there is reason to consider taking corrective action.

[boltactionsforever]

Make darn sure your cut is 90 degrees from the centerline of the bore when cutting the barrel!! Or you'll be in trouble when it comes time to siteing the gun in....LOL.....ROTF....

The best method to recrown after the "hack" is to get yourself a carrage bolt that has a round head on it, and that is the same width as the barrel external diameter..... Chuck it up into a drill with the threaded part in the drill chuck.....a little lapping compound from the local auto parts store or comet powdered cleaner mixed up into a paste....apply to the barrel end and teach that old' barrel a new lesson!..Simply run the drill WFO and apply pressure to the crown with the carrage bolt head doing the cutting with the lapping compound/comet mixture.........rotate the back side of the drill motor in a 360 degree pattern so that the cutting will be uniform and consistant.......within a couple of minutes you will have a perfectly squared to the bore crown..

FYI

BAF