PDA

View Full Version : Advantages of Annealing Brass?


larphred
December 15, 2006, 15:14
Will be loading up a bunch of .223 and .308. Was wondering if annealing is worth the effort. If so, what temperatures are used. I have an ashing oven that gets pretty hot, but I think most folks use a torch. Any suggestions?

ftierson
December 15, 2006, 16:03
Originally posted by larphred
Will be loading up a bunch of .223 and .308. Was wondering if annealing is worth the effort. If so, what temperatures are used. I have an ashing oven that gets pretty hot, but I think most folks use a torch. Any suggestions?

Probably not...

I anneal 6.5x55mm cases, usually after about eight reloads, just to keep the case necks from splitting on a bunch of really nice Norma brass. I'm also curious about how many times that I can safely reload the cases. I have a few going on 20 reloads, with normal pressure loads...

I also anneal the necks of cases that I have made from 'bigger' ones. For example, when I used to make .308 cases out of .30-06 cases, I always annealed the necks after sizing the .308 cases down to size. The same for 7x57mm Mauser cases out of .30-06...

You just want to heat the shoulder and neck of the case and nothing else. I stand decapped cases, after sizing, in a pan with water up to about a half inch below the shoulder (on .308). I place the pan on a stool that can be rotated. Then, with a standard propane torch, I heat the neck of each case while rotating the stool (and, therefore, also the case) until I see a straw like color flowing down into the shoulder. You should stop short of red hot, and doing all this with really low light helps you see the color flowing into the shoulder. You then tip the case over into the water. Unlike steel, quenching brass in water anneals the case instead of hardening it.

You can also purchase the appropriate temperature indicating crayons to get exactly the temperature that you want before tipping the case over into the water.

Anyway, that's what I do...

For what it's worth...

Forrest

DYNOMIKE
December 15, 2006, 17:33
I have never done it or felt the need to.
From what I have read the times to use the process would be when doing some of the examples Forrest noted.
Cases that will get worked a Lot so they stay soft and don't split.

aardq
December 15, 2006, 21:45
+1 for Forrest's thoughts. the only time I've ever tried this is when forming new caliber cases from longer cases. I dipped the case into a pot of molten lead. When the case feels hot, drop it into the water. I think that's easier than using a propane torch.

Don't waste the time and effort to do something that isn't needed.

Dan

owlcreekok
December 15, 2006, 22:10
I used to do it before making .30 Herrett from .30-30 and 7mm TCU from .223. I noticed easier forming after the annealing. I have never done it to any others. I haveoften thought I may, should I ever approach what I thought to be "a good number" of loadings from a lot of cases. Thus far, I think I have a lot of .30-06 with five on them. My reloading is ramping up again after a few years of sparse activity.

Forrest, do you use a standard full length .308 die to form the cases from .30-06 ? I was just a night or two ago, contemplating that very thing. But then, I contemplate a lot. Seems I am pretty proficient at it. :tongue:

ftierson
December 15, 2006, 22:44
Originally posted by owlcreekok
Forrest, do you use a standard full length .308 die to form the cases from .30-06 ? I was just a night or two ago, contemplating that very thing. But then, I contemplate a lot. Seems I am pretty proficient at it. :tongue:

Jerry, I used a standard RCBS .308 FL Sizer Die...

I also have a special RCBS .308 case length die that allows you to use a hacksaw to whack the long neck of the (what used to be) .30-06 case off after sizing to .308. I then use a standard case trimmer for the fine tuning.

I don't do much of this case forming right now because 7.62mm NATO cases can be found for less money than .30-06 cases. Such was not the case thirty years ago...

The case loss is extremely low when going from .30-06 to .308...

However, it's much more of a trick to produce 7x57mm Mauser cases from .30-06 cases directly using only a 7x57mm FL sizer die. You end up losing a fair number of cases to folding over of the metal in the shoulder. If I was going to make 7x57mm cases from .30-06 brass today, I'd buy one of the intermediate dies that are specially designed to reduce the neck in a couple of steps rather than directly from .30-06 to 7x57mm...

I've also produced 7.65x53mm Belgian/Argentine Mauser cases from .30-06 brass, with good results too...

For what it's all worth...

Forrest

DYNOMIKE
December 15, 2006, 23:12
Originally posted by owlcreekok
I was just a night or two ago Constipated that very thing. But then, I Constipate a lot. Seems I am pretty proficient at it. :tongue:

I have heard OWLS get Constipated a LOT!!
:devil:

shootist87122
December 15, 2006, 23:51
You only want to heat the neck and shoulder area. Doing same to the base is a big no-no. (Not that I'm an expert, I'm only do 7.5 Swiss.) I use propane and hold the case in my bare hands. It only takes about 3 or 4 seconds per case and if the base gets hot to the touch before you put it down, you are using too much heat.

The guys over at Swissrifles.com do this a lot. I'll see if I can find a good thread to link to.

owlcreekok
December 15, 2006, 23:54
Oh put a sock innit, Mike. Ya idjit. No tellin WHAT I might rub on yore seegar I gonna pick up for you next week. :devil:

I got more '06 brass coming from a member here, and know where I might lay hands on a few more if I took the notion. Plus, my 30 06 shooting is not in SA rifles. I might just play around with that some. Not any big quantity, mind.

You have any better luck (or worse luck) with one brqnd of brass than another ?

(we'll just hijack the stuffin outta this thread :angel: )

shootist87122
December 16, 2006, 00:00
Pic borrowed from Parashooter at Swissrifles from the following thread. Seems to know what he's doing and I'm using as my guide:
http://p083.ezboard.com/ftheswissriflesdotcommessageboardfrm11.showMessage ?topicID=639.topic


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/shootist87122/annealani.gif

DYNOMIKE
December 16, 2006, 00:06
Originally posted by owlcreekok
Oh put a sock innit, Mike. Ya idjit. No tellin WHAT I might rub on yore seegar I gonna pick up for you next week. :devil:

I got more '06 brass coming from a member here, and know where I might lay hands on a few more if I took the notion. Plus, my 30 06 shooting is not in SA rifles. I might just play around with that some. Not any big quantity, mind.

You have any better luck (or worse luck) with one brqnd of brass than another ?

(we'll just hijack the stuffin outta this thread :angel: )

Ya idjit..:rofl: Soory for the HIJACK, I couldn't help myself..
I can git ya some 06 Brass Hootie.. I gots a MESS of it if'n ya need some more..

shootist~
I am interested in the 7.5 Swiss annealing though?
See I have some NORMA Brass inbound and will be gettin me a SET of REDDING dies right quick.
I had it in my PEA Brain that When I load this brass I will just NECK size the cases after each firing. I Thought so far ahead as to keep the brass separate for each K31 cause I have 4 of them and that "could" be a Problem??
IF I neck size only will I "over work" the brass, specially important cause the NORMA Brass is VERY pricey.

owlcreekok
December 16, 2006, 00:15
I read somewhere in an old book I got (might be by Colonel Hatcher) that annealing cases and neck sizing the brass, keeping it "with" the same rifle will make cases last "indefinitely". I kinda doubt the "indefinite" part. I plan to get a neck sizing dies in .308 and .270 in a month or so. Got the nice .270 FN Mauser and a nice .308 turnbolt getting built as we speak.

shootist87122
December 16, 2006, 00:22
Originally posted by DYNOMIKE69



shootist~
I am interested in the 7.5 Swiss annealing though?
See I have some NORMA Brass inbound and will be gettin me a SET of REDDING dies right quick.
I had it in my PEA Brain that When I load this brass I will just NECK size the cases after each firing. I Thought so far ahead as to keep the brass separate for each K31 cause I have 4 of them and that "could" be a Problem??
IF I neck size only will I "over work" the brass, specially important cause the NORMA Brass is VERY pricey.

Mike,

Check out he reloading section of Swissrifles.com. Neck sizing for a Srtaight Pull rifle is not a good plan since you don't have the camming action of a normal bolt gun. Unless you are loading really hot loads, your brass should last a long long time.

I FL size (with Redding dies) and have 7 loads on some of my Graff 7.5x55 brass with no problems (I'm annealing after the 6th time so I'm new on that end.) I read where some of the guys over there have been shooting the same brass since before Moses learned to paddle.

As a check, you want to be sure the s/n on the bolt flips to the vertical without forcing the bolt forward. Otherwise you are out of battery and looking at misfires.

DYNOMIKE
December 16, 2006, 00:29
AHHHH..
I didn't think of the STRAIGHT Pull thing??
Good thing I like to ask questions first..:biggrin: