Quality of dies

[dwarmbrodt]

With all the brands out there, can someone rank them in regards to quality? RCBS, Lee, Redding etc.... I'm talking rifle dies in this case.

[DJ]

Your going to get all kinds of answers to this one. IMHO RCBS dies are the best out there. A close second is the Redding. I've never used Lee dies, don't even know anyone who does. Lee dies are supposed to be pretty good.

[Greensborobob]

I think this is one of those questions that should be answered by the market place.

Check e-bay and see whose dies are available.

[gunsmith_tony]

I like RCBS and Hornady

[shootist87122]

Redding #1 and RCBS a close #2. Both are excellent.

[mj2evans]

While I have not used Redding I do have experience with Forster, RCBS, and Lee. I rank fit/finish in that order. Forster dies are noticibly smother in use then the other two. I am NOT saying RCBS or Lee are bad, just not as smooth in use. I use Lee dies for loading 8mm fun rounds and I am very happy with sub 2" 5 shot groups in Turk M38 Mauser. I just think Forster is slightly better and are *supposed* to produce less neck run out when resizing. I am actually ordering a set of 7.62x54R dies - while any of the three would work fine I am going with Forster.

[ftierson]

I use mostly RCBS and Lee dies...

Over the years, I have bought replacement Lee sets for most of my RCBS dies. The RCBS dies are still good (for example, I'm in the process of loading up a bunch of 5.56mm M193 right now and I'm using a set of RCBS dies that I've been using for 20 years), but Lee has added several innovative features that makes their dies easier to use.

I use Lee Carbide Pistol Dies exclusively for handgun ammo. Their carbide sizers are great. And their Factory Crimp Die for handgun ammo not only crimps the bullet but postsizes the cartridge so that you'll never have problems with chambering the ammo...

The Lee Factory Crimp Die for rifle cartridges is one of the greatest inventions of the last century. No more squashed necks due to inconsistent case length and/or neck thickness...

I use a Lee decapping die to remove primers. As a matter of fact, I have a dedicated press set up for just this job...

Redding dies are very nice and beautiful but, to my way of thinking, not worth the premium paid for them in order to satisfy my needs. They might well be worth it to someone else...

I don't use Hornady dies, but the ones that I have seen look quite nice and I'm sure that you'd be happy with them. Their elliptical neck expander button on the sizer die is a great idea.

For what it's worth...

Forrest

[Borsig]

right tools for the right job-

I use RCBS X-dies for my milsurps. With reloading cases more than once, it really saves on the trimming, and extends case life. For production, standard reloading I belive these are the best choice.

Hornaday new dimension carbide for my pistol loading.

I use lee dies for my bolt guns, because I like their neck sizers, and Lee dies are availble handily in ALOT of calibers.

[DYNOMIKE]

Originally posted by shootist87122
Redding #1 and RCBS a close #2. Both are excellent.

I like REDDING the best, but I have a Couple die sets from Dillon as well,..
My .06 Dies are Hornady and other than the Decap pin they seem to work fine, a few sest are RCBS have always worked fine.
Ask my Dad and he would say RCBS cause that is all he has ever used.

I would like to try that Die that Tony likes so much for crimping though..

[bykerhd]

For single stage presses I prefer Redding, RCBS, Hornady, Lyman and Lee. In that order.
For my 550 Dillon press, I find that Dillon's dies work the best. They are designed for ease of use in a progressive press capable of large volume production. I've tried RCBS and Lyman dies before changing over to Dillon's.

[Temp]

When I first started out loading I bought Lee dies because they were cheap. After a while I decided to move up and bought some of the other name brands.

Now, I'm back to buying Lee dies. They do what they're supposed to do and in many instances they do it better than dies costing much more.

I've never tried Hornady dies, but I've done some reading on them and I like their elliptical expander concept. The next set of dies I buy I'll probably give a set of Hornady .223 dies a try,.... although I can't complain about the Lee set that I'm using now.

[Andy the Aussie]

RCBS here, couple of reasons for this my first set of dies when I was a young'n were RCBS (just what the shop had on the day) in 300Win. Sooo... I am a creature of habit and to me my shelf stacked with all sorts of different brand (and by god CLOURED) boxes just didn't work so I kept buying RCBC. I did stray from the path once and bought another brand FL set in 22/250. See I had just been given a PILE of brass by a mate who had disposed of his 22/250 FL sized them all and you could still not beat them into the chamber with a hammer (Sakos have pretty close tolerances). Out of interest I walked to a mates place (hey I was 15 at the time) and ran some brass through his brothers RCBS FL dies and that did the trick, they chambered just like bought ones. I have stuck with RCBS since. I DO believe that Redding, Hornady, Fosters etc make great stuff as well, I am a hard person to get to change though, I still wear the same brands of socks and Jeans that I did at 14....:rofl: :rofl:

[Mebsuta]

RCBS 'cuz that's what I started with in 8x57, and now I just get Lee 'cuz they are cheaper as Temp already said. I like the RCBS a little better but Lee works fine.

[newfalguy101]

I use RCBS or Hornady whichever is less expensive of those options, the only complaint I have with the Hornady is the de-cap pin sliding while decapping military primers, once I got the collet really cranked down tight, it didnt move anymore :tongue:

Hornady has redesigned the decap pins to incorporate rings into the pin body to give the collet something to "grab" which should solve that problem nicely.

I am seriously considering giving the Lee factory crimp die a go here shortly.

Are those crimp dies cartridge specific or caliber specific????

[ftierson]

Originally posted by newfalguy101
I am seriously considering giving the Lee factory crimp die a go here shortly.

Are those crimp dies cartridge specific or caliber specific????

The Lee Factory Crimp Dies are cartridge specific. You need a separate one for each cartridge. That's because there is a collet with a 'chamber for the cartridge' inside the die body. The bottom of this collet/insert with the 'chamber' contacts the top of the shellholder when the ram is completely raised. This pushes the insert (with the cartridge inside) up inside the die against a constriction inside the die body. The top of the insert, into which the neck (with bullet) fits, has four cuts at 90 degrees to each other from the top down to the shoulder. The constriction in the die body compresses the four 'petals' of the insert, which crimps the bullet. In all this, the cartridge itself is never pushed down, which can lead to collapsing the shoulder.

It's a very clever collet design and one that works extremely well...

After you try one, you'll wonder how you ever got along without one...

And, like many Lee products, it's very reasonably priced to boot...

Forrest

[jvm]

If you only want to but one set, and intend to live/reload a long time, buy the Dillon brand. I wish I had a long time ago. I have Carbide sets in 223 and 308. I'm using them tonight. Yes you still have to lube the carbide rifle dies. No big deal I just put the cases in a bucket and wash/dry the lube.

[gunsmith_tony]

Originally posted by ftierson

The Lee Factory Crimp Dies are cartridge specific. You need a separate one for each cartridge. That's because there is a collet with a 'chamber for the cartridge' inside the die body. The bottom of this collet/insert with the 'chamber' contacts the top of the shellholder when the ram is completely raised. This pushes the insert (with the cartridge inside) up inside the die against a constriction inside the die body. The top of the insert, into which the neck (with bullet) fits, has four cuts at 90 degrees to each other from the top down to the shoulder. The constriction in the die body compresses the four 'petals' of the insert, which crimps the bullet. In all this, the cartridge itself is never pushed down, which can lead to collapsing the shoulder.
It's a very clever collet design and one that works extremely well...
After you try one, you'll wonder how you ever got along without one...
And, like many Lee products, it's very reasonably priced to boot...
Forrest
I've never been a big fan of Lee products. And I have tried quite a few of them. Even so, there are two Lee products I am rather fond of...the Lee Auto Prime hand priming tool, and I especially like their "Factory Crimp" dies.
If your loading rifle ammo on a progressive with four or five stations, there's no reason to seat and crimp in the same die.

[shootist87122]

Has anyone done a test to see if the Lee Factory Crimp Die actually adds any neck tension to a .308 case VS no crimp at all? I get very good neck tension on my large caliber rifle loads and see no reason to crimp. (.223 could be a different issue as setback can be more of an issue there - AMHIK.)

[mdlmkr 7.62]

RCBS is the 'ol standby. I think Hornady is a little better as fara as the expander goes. Lee dies - you get what you pay for. Their locking nuts don't have setscrews and after you buy a set of RCBS nuts, you're at or above the price for RCBS dies.

[ftierson]

Originally posted by shootist87122
Has anyone done a test to see if the Lee Factory Crimp Die actually adds any neck tension to a .308 case VS no crimp at all? I get very good neck tension on my large caliber rifle loads and see no reason to crimp. (.223 could be a different issue as setback can be more of an issue there - AMHIK.)

A very interesting question, Joe.

I have never tested directly for neck tension. However, neck tension alone is not why I use the Lee Factory Crimp Die.

When I first started reloading 5.56x45mm back in about 1974, I was loading for a Colt AR-15. I tried a number of different bullets, including some without cannelures. I was using a set of RCBS FL dies, and the neck tension produced by them was excellent (using mostly US military cases). What I found was that, every once in a while, the tip of the bullet would hang up just enough as it was being pushed forward out of the mag by the bolt/carrier that it would drive the bullet back into the case and jam the gun up...

This happened mostly with HP or SP bullets, but even occasionaly with M193 ball too. This all with the bullets uncrimped.

I'm guessing that some of the bullets that actually chambered and fired had also had the bullets set back slightly which, of course, increases pressure and would make the ammo less consistent.

I solved that problem by using the built in crimper in the RCBS dies and using mostly cannelured bullets in the semis. The non-crimped bullets were used mostly in bolt guns.

However, having said that, I just fired 100 rounds of ammo loaded in about 1975 using a Herter's 55gr semi-pointed SP flat base bullet with IMR3031 in a Doublestar A2 with great results and no hangups. However, I wouldn't trust my life to this non-crimped ammo...

The Lee Factory Crimp Die fixed the crimping problem forever for the 5.56x45mm. Perfect crimps every time without running the risk of setting the shoulder back by trying for a crimp a liitel too much for the dies...

Also, I have pulled bullets that I've crimped with the LFCD, and they are certainly harder to pull than the same ammo without the crimp.

The 7.62x51mm is a somewhat different story.

I have loaded and fired 7.62mm ammo using both crimped and uncrimped bullets in several semis... The one that I first started with was an HK-91. I have crimped bullets right from the beginning of my loading 7.62mm. Once, I had to pull down 1000 rounds of 7.62x51mm because of a sizing problem (discussed elsewhere here on the files). I had crimped all of the bullets with the built in crimper feature of the RCBS dies. It was certainly harder to pull the crimped bullets than uncrimped ones.

Increasing the neck tension is not why I crimp bullets. Actually, in some cases, I think that crimping a bullet can decrease the neck tension slightly...

The reason that I crimp for semi-autos is that the crimp allows the front end/edge of the cartridge case to be physically pushed into the bullet, which then provides a shoulder that the bullet is pushed back against when chambering that prevents setback of the bullet. The neck tension, by itself, is somewhat irrelevant...

Back many moons ago, I purchased a bunch of the CBC 1975 7.62mm NATO Ball. It is beautiful ammo. However, I've now torn down over 1000 rounds of it and have found that, for lote 12-2.TRIM.1975 at least, this is some of the most consistent NATO ammo that I have ever seen in terms of component weight variability. However, there is one problem. In many cases, the bullet is quite lightly held in the neck. Not exactly loose, but lightly held (little neck tension). Simply using the LFCD to crimp these bullets fixes that problem completely...

Get a set of LFCD and you'll never use anything else.

They're that good (and easy to use)...

Forrest

[FAL4EVER]

Just recently first tried a couple of Lee diesets (.308W/.44M) and I like the ease of adjustment. However, after 4 months they already do show light signs of rust, where as my 10+ years old Dillon dies don't (and neither does anything else in my gunroom).