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perdurabo
November 16, 2006, 15:00
I'm looking for some various parts like extra tool heads, powder dies and conversion kits for my Dillon 500B. I know you can find used stuff on ebay, but they don't always have what I need (and sometimes its no cheaper than buying direct from Dillon). I'd rather not pay the high markup (ie sucker price) for parts on Dillon's own retail site so I'm wondering if there are other online resellers with better pricing, especially ones that will offer a dealer discount to 03 C&R holders.

Any ideas?

Just on a whim I'll post what I'm looking for here if the mods promise not to move this post to the marketplace:

550B conversion kit for 9mm
550B "quick change kit"

Biotech
November 16, 2006, 17:10
Most Dillon dealers I have found charge the catalog list price for any Dillon product or just a bit more. If I want to get the item for less than list price I just keep watching the Auction sites and bid up to what I am willing to pay. If I want it quickly I just bite the bullet and order from Dillon.

Random Chaos
November 16, 2006, 17:48
I went throught he same exercise looking for a less expensive reseller and could not find one. I looked on Ebay and really did not see what I wanted at what I wanted to pay. Used stuff seems to get bid up constantly and new stuff is priced at retail or a buck or two below. That plus the outrageuos shipping charges most Ebay sellers tack on now made me just bite the bullet and just order from Dillon.

Rick

River Pig
November 16, 2006, 17:55
The resellers are not allowed by Dillon to sell for less than list. However, if you goggle around, there are resellers that give you a deal by paying shipping, including "gifts", etc.
For just parts I would go directly to dillion since you won't save much by messing with e-bay or a reseller.

bykerhd
November 16, 2006, 21:32
I've found the best prices on used Dillon stuff at gun shops and gun shows. I've heard of even better deals through private sales but have never had the good fortune to come across such "steals" myself.

perdurabo
August 24, 2009, 12:52
Why do resellers tolerate this Minimum Advertised price crap? Why would they allow a manufacturer to dictate their own pricing?

I'm no fan of government economic intervention at all, but isnt this sort of policy illegal? From wikipedia:

"In 1980, the U.S. Supreme Court held that the repeal of Miller-Tydings implied that the Sherman Act's complete ban of vertical price fixing was again effective, and that even the 21st Amendment could not shield California's liquor resale price maintenance regime from the reach of the Sherman Act. California Liquor Dealers v. Midcal Aluminum, 445 U.S. 97 (1980). Thus, from the 1975 enactment of the Consumer Goods Pricing Act to the 2008 Leegin decision, resale price maintenance was again no longer legal in the United States."

Or is a MAP policy somehow not the same thing as "resale price maintenance"?

cotter
August 25, 2009, 21:23
Don't know how their pricing compares on Dillon but I have used http://www.grafs.com/ for other things with good success.
Chad

FAL GRUNT
August 25, 2009, 23:31
I don't know what your beef with Dillon is (didn't know there was a sucker price? :rolleyes: ) but they often have cheaper prices than almost anywhere else. I get Midway's highest discount and Dillon is still often times cheaper for most items except for some specialized things.

Why not become a Dillon dealer? Then you get everything at dealer price. Email - EricH@DillonPrecision.com. You have to meet the following requirements:

1. to be a stocking retailer
2. have a business license
3. retail store, on commercial property, with regular hours
4. yellow pages ad
5. minimum initial order of $3,500.00 wholesale

No biggie, a few piles of paper, a couple inspections, and ta-da, you can buy all the dillon stuff you want at the non-sucker price.

If you really want to buy stuff at a non-sucker price, buy used dillon equipment. And you know what, because dillon is such a horrible company that loves screwing you, they'll re-build it for free. But just wait, they'll get you... they'll get you good. They'll even ship it free, and include, if your good, a few extras.

Oh, and price setting, alot of manufacturers do that. Have you ever bought a car? Either that or a non-compete clause.

-myers

the gman
August 26, 2009, 18:55
Originally posted by FAL GRUNT
I don't know what your beef with Dillon is (didn't know there was a sucker price? :rolleyes: ) but they often have cheaper prices than almost anywhere else. I get Midway's highest discount and Dillon is still often times cheaper for most items except for some specialized things.

Why not become a Dillon dealer? Then you get everything at dealer price. Email - EricH@DillonPrecision.com. You have to meet the following requirements:

1. to be a stocking retailer
2. have a business license
3. retail store, on commercial property, with regular hours
4. yellow pages ad
5. minimum initial order of $3,500.00 wholesale

No biggie, a few piles of paper, a couple inspections, and ta-da, you can buy all the dillon stuff you want at the non-sucker price.

If you really want to buy stuff at a non-sucker price, buy used dillon equipment. And you know what, because dillon is such a horrible company that loves screwing you, they'll re-build it for free. But just wait, they'll get you... they'll get you good. They'll even ship it free, and include, if your good, a few extras.

Oh, and price setting, alot of manufacturers do that. Have you ever bought a car? Either that or a non-compete clause.

-myers

+1 on the above. I'm an 07 manufacturer FFL & I still pay retail on Dillon stuff cuz I can't satisfy the above requirements. Do I like it? Not really considering that I get dealer discount on most everything else gun related. BTW, in my book, an 03 FFL shouldn't be entitled to any kind of dealer discount as if you really use that license to 'deal' in C&R guns, you are breaking the law. Dealer discounts should be for dealers only.

Regarding MAP, it's fairly simple; either comply or you won't get product. MAP is to prevent stupid dealers cutting each other's throats & it's also about maintaining value in the brand, at least in ads. MAP only applies to what the store advertises it for, that's why you often see 'P.O.A' or 'call for price' in certain ads. What the guy sells it for in his store is up to him, therefore MAP does not fit within the decision you quoted.

Dillon is good stuff & the warranty is the best in the reloading business bar none. Or you can just try buying cheaper shit & seeing it never work properly....:eek: Buying used with Dillon is a no brainer cuz as Myers pointed out, they will fix it free. YMMV

gunnut1
September 30, 2009, 17:41
I bought my Dillion from these folks.

http://www.proxarms.com/index_maintenance.php

Their site is down for maintenance right now.

They are cheaper than Dillion.

perdurabo
September 30, 2009, 18:57
Companies like RCBS and Lee are happy to let MidwayUSA sell and advertise their products at whatever price they feel like, and even allow it to be sold at a "dealer" discount to 03 FFL holders. To me, the "dealer" price is actually closer to the "real" price and anything higher is definitely a "sucker" price.

I respect a company's decision not to sell directly to the public and use resellers and a dealer network to sell their product, dealing with customers costs money. However, if they do so they are necessarily adding more cost to their product unnecessarily. Retail dealers and resellers, especially brick and mortar ones, almost always add NO value whatsoever to the product and add additional markup thats passed on to the end user customer. If I buy an Acme widget from Bubbas corner gun shop for (cost of production) + (manufacturer markup) + (Bubbas markup) instead of buying it directly from Acme for (cost of production) + (manufacturer markup), what do I really get for all that extra money? The ability to take it home right away? A local place to return it to if its DOA? How valuable is that, really? Thats absolutely not worth it if you ask me. The retail distribution chain adds NO VALUE and MORE PRICE than is necessary in most cases.

So, I'm going to do my damnedest to get the product as cheaply as possible. I have no desire to offer Bubba down at the corner shop any charity for doing nothing other that putting a sign over his door. In most cases, I don't NEED him, his markup, or anything else he thinks he can provide. Any so-called "expertise" or "advice" he might offer can generally be had in half an hour with a search engine for free. All this business Dillon engages in with MAP pricing and restrictive sales to "prop up" their brand, just galls me and if it werent for the case that Im alrady heavily invested in Dillon equipment, I'd switch to Hornady, Lee or RCBS in a heartbeat. Yeah, having a complete no-BS warranty probably increases your costs, but judging by the number of expensive airplanes Mike Dillon is buying, I have a pretty good feeling that he could be selling his wares for a lot less and still stay in business.

Just sell me what I want for a fair price and I'll be happy... only know that for me, fair price is "cost of production plus a demonstrably small margin", not "cost of production plus whatever the hell we feel like cause youre a sucker and will pay it". That sort of attitude will definitely have me spending my money elsewhere if at all possible.

dansandbr549
September 30, 2009, 19:45
Hey! Watch that Bubba shit!:biggrin:

Old Sarge
October 01, 2009, 11:43
Originally posted by perdurabo
I'm looking for some various parts like extra tool heads, powder dies and conversion kits for my Dillon 500B. I know you can find used stuff on ebay, but they don't always have what I need (and sometimes its no cheaper than buying direct from Dillon). I'd rather not pay the high markup (ie sucker price) for parts on Dillon's own retail site so I'm wondering if there are other online resellers with better pricing, especially ones that will offer a dealer discount to 03 C&R holders.

Any ideas?

Just on a whim I'll post what I'm looking for here if the mods promise not to move this post to the marketplace:

550B conversion kit for 9mm
550B "quick change kit"

I keept my eyes open till I found a deal on someone looking to get out of reloading. I had to buy the whole setup and then part it out keepting the things I wanted. I had to put out $1000. and it took me a year and a few months to sell off all of the extras. But I ended up only paying about $100 for a dillon 550B press setup in my major calibers.

Old Sarge

gunnut1
October 01, 2009, 12:48
BTW, in my book, an 03 FFL shouldn't be entitled to any kind of dealer discount as if you really use that license to 'deal' in C&R guns, you are breaking the law. Dealer discounts should be for dealers only.

UMM OK, but how do you figure that is breaking the law? It is up to the distributor to decide who they want to grant dealer status to. I had a C&R license and I got dealer discounts at many of our distributors. No big deal.
I really don't understand mate.

FAL GRUNT
October 01, 2009, 13:05
If you had a C&R you know using a C&R to "deal" in firearms is illegal. That is what the gman is saying. Why do 03 FFL's get a dealer discount if it is illegal for them to deal?

-myers

perdurabo
October 01, 2009, 13:15
Originally posted by FAL GRUNT
If you had a C&R you know using a C&R to "deal" in firearms is illegal. That is what the gman is saying. Why do 03 FFL's get a dealer discount if it is illegal for them to deal?


To be an FFL "dealer" means reselling firearms and controlled products at a profit. Legal 03 FFLs arent doing that. They are simply avoiding the pointless markup that a reselling dealer would throw on there (not to mention sales tax) so they can actually afford to shoot. Its only illegal if I am using the license to make a profit reselling C&R firearms. The BATF doesn't give a shit what I do with accessories and reloading equipment or what I buy them for. Restricting sales of non-firearms to non-FFLs is completely a matter of private business policy, and a bad policy if you ask me.

Kudos to Larry Potterfield for making a way for mere mortal average joes to make an end run around the good ole boy reseller system that ends up making equipment cost a lot more than it has to. Why should I pay markup from a dealer when all the guy is doing is ordering it from the same website I am? Why would I allow a so-called dealer to scam me that way when I didn't have to?

gunnut1
October 02, 2009, 09:38
Originally posted by perdurabo


To be an FFL "dealer" means reselling firearms and controlled products at a profit. Legal 03 FFLs arent doing that. They are simply avoiding the pointless markup that a reselling dealer would throw on there (not to mention sales tax) so they can actually afford to shoot. Its only illegal if I am using the license to make a profit reselling C&R firearms. The BATF doesn't give a shit what I do with accessories and reloading equipment or what I buy them for. Restricting sales of non-firearms to non-FFLs is completely a matter of private business policy, and a bad policy if you ask me.

Kudos to Larry Potterfield for making a way for mere mortal average joes to make an end run around the good ole boy reseller system that ends up making equipment cost a lot more than it has to. Why should I pay markup from a dealer when all the guy is doing is ordering it from the same website I am? Why would I allow a so-called dealer to scam me that way when I didn't have to?

+1

[qoute]Its only illegal if I am using the license to make a profit reselling C&R firearms.[/quote]

I beg to differ. You can make a profit on the occasional sale. But you can't buy C&R 20 guns with your C&R and sell all of them at a gun show. The ATF could care less if you make a profit. All they are worried about with C&Rs is that you aren't dealing. You can buy 5 guns to enhance your collection, keep the best of the 5 and sell 4 of them at a profit. Nothing wrong with that. But is you consistantly buy 5 of the same gun over a period and sell them at a gun show, the the ATF red flags will go up.

FAL GRUNT
October 02, 2009, 11:37
Originally posted by perdurabo


To be an FFL "dealer" means reselling firearms and controlled products at a profit. Legal 03 FFLs arent doing that. They are simply avoiding the pointless markup that a reselling dealer would throw on there (not to mention sales tax) so they can actually afford to shoot. Its only illegal if I am using the license to make a profit reselling C&R firearms. The BATF doesn't give a shit what I do with accessories and reloading equipment or what I buy them for. Restricting sales of non-firearms to non-FFLs is completely a matter of private business policy, and a bad policy if you ask me.

Kudos to Larry Potterfield for making a way for mere mortal average joes to make an end run around the good ole boy reseller system that ends up making equipment cost a lot more than it has to. Why should I pay markup from a dealer when all the guy is doing is ordering it from the same website I am? Why would I allow a so-called dealer to scam me that way when I didn't have to?

You honestly made me smile this morning which was good. You have such an interesting view of the world.

By chance, where do you shop for food? Car parts?

I just want to know so that I don't ever have to pay that pointless mark up again.

I assume you buy enough quantity of both or manufacture your own so that you don't have to?

-myers

perdurabo
October 02, 2009, 13:27
Originally posted by FAL GRUNT

By chance, where do you shop for food? Car parts?

I just want to know so that I don't ever have to pay that pointless mark up again.

I assume you buy enough quantity of both or manufacture your own so that you don't have to?

-myers

I do my best to buy at or near the wholesale price as much as I possibly can.

Car parts, for example, I either look for used at a salvage yard or if I can't do that I find online vendors who sell parts as cheap as possible without a core requirement. For items I can't install myself, I never do business with mechanics who wont let me supply my own parts and I won't deal with shops with a high labor rate ($65/hour or less is plenty to live on, if not youre doing something wrong and shouldn't be in business).

For processed food, I realize there's a huge retail markup but theres no feasible way for a private person to deal directly with distributors in efficient quantities. To mitigate those costs, I simply buy from the supermarket with the best prices, watch the sale papers and use coupons and credit card cash back rewards whenever possible to maximize my value. For unprocessed foods, I live in a rural area where I know plenty of farmers and small producers who will sell or trade me fresh meat and produce (even so-called "organic" produce) for pennies on the dollar vs what the clueless hippies in Austin ignorantly pay. I produce a lot of my own vegetables and eggs, so that's never a concern.

My local grocery store actually adds value to their products by buying in HUGE quantities, dividing and repackaging those products in such a way that its affordable and convenient to me.

So what does Bubba the corner gun shop dealer do in order to sell me, for example, a set of reloading dies? EXACTLY the same thing I do. he logs onto midwayusa.com, puts the reloading dies in his shopping cart, checks out, pays via credit card, and then in about a week the thing shows up on his doorstep. He then slaps a price tag on it anywhere from 10% or more of his "dealer" price at Midway USA and puts it out on his shop floor.

How does that add ANY value to the product?

WHY should I buy from him when I could do the EXACT same thing and get it DIRECTLY from MidwayUSA and more cheaply?

Theres NO value in the retail reseller distribution racket. None. What. So. Ever. The only thing thats propping any of it up is the old school good ole boy attitude that theres plenty of people out there who will ignorantly overpay in order to provide profit for the manufacturer, the distributor and the retailer. Well, people are starting to figure out that THREE people making profit off of ONE product is at least one too many if not TWO too many. Manufacturers and distributors that will direct sell to me at the same price they used to sell to their distributing and reselling cronies get my support, because in my mind thats the RIGHT business model. Low prices are more important than propping up a business that does nothing but mark the price up and pass it along. Theres no WORK there, theres no productivity there. Its dead weight, economically speaking. Why support a system that provides only more cost without any value?

dansandbr549
October 02, 2009, 13:39
HEY! WATCH THAT BUBBA SHIT!! May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your crotch. :rofl: :rofl:

perdurabo
October 02, 2009, 13:43
Originally posted by dansandbr549
HEY! WATCH THAT BUBBA SHIT!! May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your crotch. :rofl: :rofl:

Ok, hows about "Cleetus"? ;)

dansandbr549
October 02, 2009, 13:48
CLEETUS?? Are you speaking of my cousin Cleetus or that button between her legs?:tongue:

FAL GRUNT
October 02, 2009, 17:09
Originally posted by perdurabo


I do my best to buy at or near the wholesale price as much as I possibly can.

Car parts, for example, I either look for used at a salvage yard or if I can't do that I find online vendors who sell parts as cheap as possible without a core requirement. For items I can't install myself, I never do business with mechanics who wont let me supply my own parts and I won't deal with shops with a high labor rate ($65/hour or less is plenty to live on, if not youre doing something wrong and shouldn't be in business).

For processed food, I realize there's a huge retail markup but theres no feasible way for a private person to deal directly with distributors in efficient quantities. To mitigate those costs, I simply buy from the supermarket with the best prices, watch the sale papers and use coupons and credit card cash back rewards whenever possible to maximize my value. For unprocessed foods, I live in a rural area where I know plenty of farmers and small producers who will sell or trade me fresh meat and produce (even so-called "organic" produce) for pennies on the dollar vs what the clueless hippies in Austin ignorantly pay. I produce a lot of my own vegetables and eggs, so that's never a concern.

My local grocery store actually adds value to their products by buying in HUGE quantities, dividing and repackaging those products in such a way that its affordable and convenient to me.

So what does Bubba the corner gun shop dealer do in order to sell me, for example, a set of reloading dies? EXACTLY the same thing I do. he logs onto midwayusa.com, puts the reloading dies in his shopping cart, checks out, pays via credit card, and then in about a week the thing shows up on his doorstep. He then slaps a price tag on it anywhere from 10% or more of his "dealer" price at Midway USA and puts it out on his shop floor.

How does that add ANY value to the product?

WHY should I buy from him when I could do the EXACT same thing and get it DIRECTLY from MidwayUSA and more cheaply?

Theres NO value in the retail reseller distribution racket. None. What. So. Ever. The only thing thats propping any of it up is the old school good ole boy attitude that theres plenty of people out there who will ignorantly overpay in order to provide profit for the manufacturer, the distributor and the retailer. Well, people are starting to figure out that THREE people making profit off of ONE product is at least one too many if not TWO too many. Manufacturers and distributors that will direct sell to me at the same price they used to sell to their distributing and reselling cronies get my support, because in my mind thats the RIGHT business model. Low prices are more important than propping up a business that does nothing but mark the price up and pass it along. Theres no WORK there, theres no productivity there. Its dead weight, economically speaking. Why support a system that provides only more cost without any value?

I guess you've grown up around different "re-sellers" than I. I don't judge the value of a product by shear dollar amount, but again it sounds like we have grown up around totally different re-sellers.

I won't deal with auto-mechanics that charge below $65/hr because everyone of them that I have dealt with, or know someone that has dealt with them, are crooks and terrible mechanics. Instead of fixing a problem the correct way they "hillbilly" rig it to work for a little while. Of course I also won't buy the cheapest parts because I have learned that all too often I wound up buying that cheap part two or three times. I'm not saying that you need to spend more money, it is only intelligent to get the best price possible for something, but my mechanic also charges me cost for any parts I don't buy myself.

My local firearm distribution racket, in my opinion, actually adds lots of value to the price, again, I don't view it in dollar means. When I buy a gun from my local racketeer I know the gun will work, and it is backed by his word. I know if there are any issues he will happily help me out.

The same goes for those reloading dies. He charges $35 when midway charges $30. But when I need help working up a load, or I need more primers before a match, he always helps me out when midway or wideners or anyone else couldn't.

So I guess there really isn't any sense in arguing about this, I'm sorry that those gun shops around you are "rackets" that perpetuate a good old boy screwing. Fortunately around me they are not. Course... neither are the good mechanics around me.

-myers

gunnut1
October 02, 2009, 17:41
BTW: The ATF does consider C&R holders as dealers. We just have a different set of rules.

FAL GRUNT
October 02, 2009, 21:46
The documentation I received with my 03 FFL and with my 01 FFL application adamantly stated that an 03 FFL is not a license to deal in firearms and as such is not considered a "dealer".

Maybe they have changed the wording since I got mine, I do not know.

-myers

gunnut1
October 03, 2009, 13:42
Originally posted by FAL GRUNT
The documentation I received with my 03 FFL and with my 01 FFL application adamantly stated that an 03 FFL is not a license to deal in firearms and as such is not considered a "dealer".

Maybe they have changed the wording since I got mine, I do not know.

-myers

Let's just put it this way. When I filled out my initial application, I left one of the questions the have to do with Type1 FFLs blank. I sent it in and about 3 months later it came back and said that I needed to fill out that question. Number 7 as I recall. I called the license branch and expained that I was applying for a C&R and they told me that on the application, they want all of the questions answered. When I moved, I got an application for an amended license and it wanted to know who my landlord was, how many guns I sell a year and questions that obvisouly had absolutly nothing to do with C&R But had everything to do with type 1 FFLs. I called again and was told that I had to totally complete the form even if was for a C&R. I let it expire.