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Old Sarge
October 22, 2006, 21:39
While talking about using USGI pull down bullets for reloading, a buddy of mine asked. "Why not use 110grn Tracer bullets from a carbine in a 30-30 Winchester case?" Well I don't know? Quick setup on the press and trip out to his dads ranch. What ya know it works. Anyone else make any odd loads up?

Old Sarge

IainClaymore
October 22, 2006, 21:44
A fellow I talked to last night was advocating 130 gr. bullets as the "ultimate" load for a .30-30. While I have not tried it, I think I'll stick with 150-170 gr. for deer.

GSF1200
October 23, 2006, 06:43
The 30-30 shoots great with bullets as light as 100grs

owlcreekok
October 23, 2006, 08:32
I think I have the recipe written down in my old data book, but I once tried some cast (RCBS 15 SIL) bullets. Gas checked, fast burning pistol powder with kapok filler. I was playing with an old bolt action 30-30 I used to have. (love to have it back, forgot where it went) It was like plinking with a .22 as I remember. Not terribly accurate, but I could dance cans around at 50 yards pretty well. As I remember, I tired of that experiment shortly.

You asked for odd. lol

Temp
October 23, 2006, 08:40
Originally posted by owlcreekok
I think I have the recipe written down in my old data book, but I once tried some cast (RCBS 15 SIL) bullets. Gas checked, fast burning pistol powder with kapok filler.

I used to shoot cast bullets with pistol powder and kapok.

It taught me all about chamber rings,... ruined the barrel on a particularly nice 03A3 Springfield.

http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/wads.html

The use of wads and fillers to hold the powder back against the
primer has resulted in the ringing of numerous chambers,
especially those of straight walled cases such as the 45-70.
Ringing is a radial enlargement of the chamber, usually occurring
at the base of the bullet in a cylindrical portion of the
chamber, i.e., in the body of the cylinder or in the neck of the
cylinder but, as far as I know, not in the transition of the two.
It can happen either suddenly (one shot) or gradually over a
series of shots.

This phenomena was first recognized (to my knowledge) in the
early seventies by serious cast bullet shooters. The word has
been long getting out but, although infrequent, the ringing has
ruined many a chamber. The NRA and the Cast Bullet Association
(which made the NRA aware of the problem) has for quite some time
recommended that no fillers or wads be used in any loads where
they are positioned against the powder so as to leave an air
space between the wad/filler and the bullet base.

The reason for ringing has not been established, but some hold
that the wad or filler is propelled forward and when it strikes
the base of the bullet, the bullet acts as a secondary projectile
and rings the chamber (in the same manner that a bulged barrel is
likely to occur if a bullet is lodged in the barrel and another
is fired behind it).

owlcreekok
October 23, 2006, 09:27
I had forgotten all about that, Temp. Thanks for reminding me of it. Brings up from long lost memory some of my experiments.

I had read something about that which you pasted there. May have been from the CBA as I followed some of their writings back then. I had reasoned at one time that if I filled the case all the way up with the kapok I would mitigate the risk of ringing. I then read something about the kapok compressing and would still have the effect of which your post spoke of. The "second projectile" effect. So, I moved on in the reading up on cast, reduced rifle loads and ran across the practice of using Pablum for filler. I never got far on that, and barely remember trying it out a small amount.

I still shoot a bit of cast rifle bullets, all in my 03-A3 and none are what I would call greatly reduced loads. At least none with pistol powder or even a lot of void in the charge of rifle powder. Again, all that is written down in the old data book out there in the shop.

Temp
October 23, 2006, 10:43
The load which ringed the chamber in my rifle was very light. It more or less went 'pop' instead of 'bang'.

I first noticed that extraction was getting difficult,... had to give the bolt a good yank to get the action open. After a few more rounds I was having to beat the bolt open with the heel of my fist.

In looking at a fired case, the mark made by the chamber ring was evident. The brass of the case was extruding into the newly formed ring and locking everything up.

I was a member of the Cast Bullet Association at the time and sent a letter to them which spelled out my situation. They printed it in their newsletter and commented that ball type pistol powders with polyester filler was the classic recipe for most chamber ringing,.... which was exactly what I was using.

The posted article says that the phenomena is mostly associated with straight walled cases, but I'm here to tell ya, the bottlenecked cartridges aren't exempt.

daschnoz
October 23, 2006, 11:34
I take these deer hunting:

.308 Winchester

-110gr M1 carbine JRN-SP (.308 dia)
-39.5gr Rx7
-Winchester cases
-Win mag rifle primers
-OAL 2.357 +- 0.007 or so

I clocked 10 of them this weekend. At 25 yards, they're around 2800 fps. Working backwards from that with an on-line ballistics calculator, the muzzle is around 3000 fps.

Ruger M77-Mark II
22" barrel
1:10 twist RH, 6 groves


Off the bench, I get 1" groups @ 100 yards. Off hand, I shoot 3"-4" groups @ 100 yards.

I went with the lighter round nose after hearing many guys tell me that their 150 or 180 grain bullet went right through the deer. Well what good is that? You have all this extra energy that gets absorbed by a tree. Here in central PA, most shots are under 100 yards. So I thought "what about a faster, light weight round nose?" 115gr from a 9mm takes out a man at less than 1/2 the speed. A deer is about the same size as a man... so it made sense to me that it should work. Lighter weight means it will loose its kinetic energy faster - round nose so it doesn't pierce its way into (and through); it's more of a thwap. Shooting into old phonebooks, it starts to expand on impact.

I have yet to take a deer with one of these. I did a great job of hunting last year, but not a lot of finding. :cry:

owlcreekok
October 23, 2006, 12:54
I did a great job of hunting last year, but not a lot of finding.

There is distinction there. I know. My fishing is similar. :cry:

ftierson
October 23, 2006, 15:31
I must be a traditionalist or something (maybe the 'Old Fart' title bestowed by the falfiles software is not that far off...:)), but I have only loaded 170gr bullets for the .30-30 Win. Of course, I only shoot it in lever action rifles, so the urge to experiment with spitzer bullets has kind of passed me by (wanting more than two rounds available)...

If I had a bolt gun or single shot in .30-30 Win., I think that I'd play around with the lighter bullets.

Just keep in mind that the .30-30 Win. case is not constructed to handle 75,000 psi loads...

(And, as a partial aside, the 170gr bullet in the .30-30 Win. is a killer on deer, whether it goes all the way through or not...).

Forrest

DJ
October 23, 2006, 17:12
Originally posted by IainClaymore
A fellow I talked to last night was advocating 130 gr. bullets as the "ultimate" load for a .30-30. While I have not tried it, I think I'll stick with 150-170 gr. for deer.


I shoot Speer 130's out of my Contender Super-14 30-30.
Deadly.