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Dusty
September 18, 2001, 18:27
Anyone use motor oil on Rifles specifically rails? If so what kind? What weight?

Snakeshot
September 18, 2001, 18:45
I like Mobil 1 for all the externals.
It soaks in and doesn't make me itch.
But for wear surfaces you need something with a little more staying power like Tetra or any other good quality synthetic grease.
HTH

idsubgun
September 18, 2001, 18:48
Originally posted by Dusty:
<STRONG>Anyone use motor oil on Rifles specifically rails? If so what kind? What weight?</STRONG>

Just remember to change it every 3000 rounds.
:D :D ;)

I use grease on things like the rails and a light coating of CLP on everything else, except the gas system, which I run dry.
There are varying opinions about the gas system, wet or dry. My own experience has been that oil products create fouling in things like gas systems.

ricochet
September 18, 2001, 20:27
I believe the Mobil 1 synthetics are under-rated and sufficient when used in larger quantities. BUT, in gun use, and other use where low quantity- higher quality lubes can be found. I do really like Mobil 1, my company has proven it to be good in 24hr/7day use turbines, but you can slightly improve for the intended uses (rails, etc). I love the Mobil oils for soaking after parking, and while always sufficient for wear, others may be better (slightly) for use in guns. Still, not a bad choice, but not what independent sources consider the best. The Mobil synthetics do beat the non-synthetics in many requirements (cold use especially). The small amount used for rails should justify better unless not available. My .02...

TopSec29
September 18, 2001, 22:28
I wipe the piston with Pinnsoil Synthetic. It wipes right off after use, no fouling a all. The very end of the piston still need to be cleaned but thats it.

FWRA
September 19, 2001, 06:58
Well I'm sure motor oil will work but watch getting it on your hands. (can absorb thru skin and it's a hazardous chemical. Just read MSDS :-(

I use Ballistol in the 16oz liquid with pump sprayer on all gun parts as well as stocks (both synthetic and wood). Unlike other gun lubes it's actually good for the skin and I use it on my hands to speed healing of WECSOG cuts.

Just apply liberally, then wipe off any excess. Hand rub into synthetic stocks and other plastic parts as well as wood stocks.
Hand rubbed into the furniture of a new AR (which always ships in a dry, grey looking black) and it will turn into a beautiful black rifle.

It's honestly the only lube you'll ever need.
Cleans, lubricates and protects from moisture and will protect your firearm even in a soaking rain.

Heck, it was used in the Torture Test Ultra Lite and worked as it always has. :-) Brought the handguards and "brass hammered" receiver back to life afterwords too and the rifle still looks great.

During test. (Ballistol lubed first. Notice heavy brass marks on receiver by the ejection port.):

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1022307&a=13682520&p=53429674&Sequence=0

After test and complete cleaning with Ballistol. Handguards were hand rubbed with same, then excess wiped clean.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1022307&a=13682520&p=53429697&Sequence=0

I've used this stuff for years now and it's the best. (Cleans my blackpowder guns too!)

I ain't no tree hugger but this stuff sure is superb! Formulated for the German military 90 years ago to take care of guns, leather and all things military, and they sure got it right. ;-)


Best Regards,
Mark Powell

Dave1
September 19, 2001, 08:17
Hey Mark,
Well I'm sure motor oil will work but watch getting it on your hands. (can absorb thru skin and it's a hazardous chemical. Just read MSDS :-(

I pretty sure this relates to "used oil" not new. I don't think it's anymore hazardous than Simple Green ;)
Just my opinion
Dave

FWRA
September 19, 2001, 09:45
Originally posted by Dave1:
<STRONG>Hey Mark,
Well I'm sure motor oil will work but watch getting it on your hands. (can absorb thru skin and it's a hazardous chemical. Just read MSDS :-(


I pretty sure this relates to "used oil" not new. I don't think it's anymore hazardous than Simple Green ;)
Just my opinion
Dave</STRONG>

Well, I had no luck on Mobil's web site searching for the MSDS, but did find this statement on their product sheet:

Based on available toxicological information, these products produce no adverse effects on health when properly handled and used. No special precautions are suggested beyond attention to good personal hygiene, including laundering oil-soaked clothing and washing skin contact areas with soap and water. Additional health and safety information on these products, including Material Safety Data Bulletins, are available on request from your local Mobil company.

Don't ya wonder why you have to wash your clothes and hands after use? :-)

Petroleum products are NOT good for people or the environment. I remember in the late '50's and early '60's when folks dumped their used motor oil in the back yard in the weeds or dumped it down the sewers. Also, try this test:
Buy a can of any motor oil and throw the brand new can in a dumpster at your workplace in plain view. They will not pick it up and will come knocking on your door to inform you that it's "Hazardous Waste" and will require proper HAZMAT disposal.

I'm not saying that motor oil is like nuclear waste, but at least if I take a sip of Ballistol I am not gonna croak. It is used in Europe for medicinal purposes but the FDA will not permit it here. (not because it's different or harmful, but to approve any drug costs millions of dollars)
(Don't ever ingest any other gun lube!)

Ballistol also removes copper fouling from barrels and neutralizes black powder residue and cleans black powder weapons like nothing else. Motor oil may lubricate, but Ballistol does it all, and is a bunch cheaper than Mobil 1. ;-)

Hope this clears that up. :-)

Best Regards,
Mark Powell

Stranger
September 19, 2001, 10:32
Do not drink Ballistol.

Ballistol contains medical grade paraffin, an alkaline salt of oleic acid, several alcohols, benzyl acetate and an oil from vegetal seeds. The paraffin is unchlorinated and conforms to the specifications of US Pharmacopoeia XX.

When I say it contains several alcohols, I mean that it might contain methanol, which can be absorbed through the skin and will cause blindness. Methanol attacks the optical nerve. That is how they "denature" medical ethanol, to keep people from drinking it. So, you may not die from it (as fast as you would from petrol), but you won't have your sight for long. Methanol will also kill you, given enough exposure.

Ballistol was used as a disinfectant in extreme circumstances, and only for surface cuts and scrapes, kind of like rubbing alcohol.

Another product you might try that has the same properties and compounds is BoeShield T-9. Both substances leave behind paraffin, after the alcohols evaporate, which is why it stays so slick. Keep in mind that eventually you will have to remove all the paraffin, and it can be a bugger to remove, trust me. I use this on my mountain bike and like it well enough. It keeps water beading up on the chain for months.

Mosin Guy
September 19, 2001, 11:23
I just thought I would mention this as it relates to Mobil 1 the only place in the United States that Mobil 1 is made is right here in Beaumont,Texas and I have to say it is one fine oil,but there are really better oil's out there for gun use.

FWRA
September 19, 2001, 12:14
Originally posted by Stranger:
<STRONG>Do not drink Ballistol.

Ballistol contains medical grade paraffin, an alkaline salt of oleic acid, several alcohols, benzyl acetate and an oil from vegetal seeds. The paraffin is unchlorinated and conforms to the specifications of US Pharmacopoeia XX.

When I say it contains several alcohols, I mean that it might contain methanol, which can be absorbed through the skin and will cause blindness. Methanol attacks the optical nerve. That is how they "denature" medical ethanol, to keep people from drinking it. So, you may not die from it (as fast as you would from petrol), but you won't have your sight for long. Methanol will also kill you, given enough exposure.

Ballistol was used as a disinfectant in extreme circumstances, and only for surface cuts and scrapes, kind of like rubbing alcohol.

Another product you might try that has the same properties and compounds is BoeShield T-9. Both substances leave behind paraffin, after the alcohols evaporate, which is why it stays so slick. Keep in mind that eventually you will have to remove all the paraffin, and it can be a bugger to remove, trust me. I use this on my mountain bike and like it well enough. It keeps water beading up on the chain for months.</STRONG>

Ballistol is non toxic and yes I've tried drinking a bit of it. (YUCK!) Methanol will definitely cause blindness, but it depends on the percentage. I find no where in my literature the mention on methonal though.

I'm not tellin' anyone to drink it, but it is a comforting thought that if your dog licks your Ballistol soaked Belgian humpback
stock he sure wont die and wont go blind either. :-)

Now cats, well I wont go there because I'm sure many folks on these boards love them. ;-)

I did see a weird bumper sticker yesterday.
"I love cats. They taste just like chicken. "

Please note: I have a cat that my daughter gave me and I'm gettin' attached to the little guy. Just like dogs a bit more.

Best Regards,
Mark Powell

[ September 19, 2001: Message edited by: FWRA ]

tor
September 19, 2001, 16:58
Have to agree with Mark here...

Mobil 1 is the BEST engine oil on the market !
I used it for many years in professional racing in Porsche Race engines...and since I live in the US I use it also in every Porsche street car I'd build engines for or in regular maintenance on these car's.

The Porsche factory uses Mobil 1 since arount 97. Before they used Shell for many years.
To give you another short explonation why I think it's the best:In my home town in Germany is a big Company named Goetze,they manufacture piston rings for cars all over the world. They always run test engines to test their rings...I've talked to an engineer there many years ago and he told me they would not more use Mobil 1 because the had to run their test engines way longer to see any or no wear...
By the way most teams in F1 use it (RPM 19.000) and also most Nascar teams use it > if they have a different oil sponsor then they fill Mobil 1 in their bottles ;)

And now to weapon oil,there is nothing better then Ballistol....I've learned that from my dad,and he from his dad,and even the US sniper team seams to agree for what I've heared ;)
Ballistol has a lot of other uses too...like sun burn,or for your A$$ if you start horse back riding,or for leather cleaning and conservation and so on....kind of a wonder stuff... ;)

Best Regards, Torsten

FWRA
September 19, 2001, 18:50
Originally posted by tor:
<STRONG>Have to agree with Mark here...

Mobil 1 is the BEST engine oil on the market !
I used it for many years in professional racing in Porsche Race engines...and since I live in the US I use it also in every Porsche street car I'd build engines for or in regular maintenance on these car's.

The Porsche factory uses Mobil 1 since arount 97. Before they used Shell for many years.
To give you another short explonation why I think it's the best:In my home town in Germany is a big Company named Goetze,they manufacture piston rings for cars all over the world. They always run test engines to test their rings...I've talked to an engineer there many years ago and he told me they would not more use Mobil 1 because the had to run their test engines way longer to see any or no wear...
By the way most teams in F1 use it (RPM 19.000) and also most Nascar teams use it > if they have a different oil sponsor then they fill Mobil 1 in their bottles ;)

And now to weapon oil,there is nothing better then Ballistol....I've learned that from my dad,and he from his dad,and even the US sniper team seams to agree for what I've heared ;)
Ballistol has a lot of other uses too...like sun burn,or for your A$$ if you start horse back riding,or for leather cleaning and conservation and so on....kind of a wonder stuff... ;)

Best Regards, Torsten</STRONG>

Hi Torsten!
I've been hooked on Ballistol but for sure not as long as your family! :-)

I can't believe how many uses I come up with for the stuff and have found it works wonders on my wifes houseplants mixed with water. Kills a bunch of little critters because although it's harmless to warm blooded creatures it kills aphids and other bugs.

Mobil 1 is the best motor oil and I've used it for quite a few years in my personal vehicles and I'm also guilty of not changing oil like I should. It performs like a champ.

Great to hear from you and I can't recall when we've had posts from Germany before.

Any tight gun controls over there? What types of firearms are you able to posess?

Inquiring minds have to know... :-)

Best Regards,
Mark Powell
FWRA

MG-70
September 19, 2001, 19:28
Hey Torsten, how's the Mak? Find me that RS America yet? ;)

I'm a Castrol GTX guy, change it religiously every 3000 miles, haven't had any problems...

Dunno, may give these products a try...what is it again, Ballistol on my gun and Mobil 1 on my ass?

Seriously, where can I obtain some Ballistol?

Regards,
MG-70

WJ-Polish Guy
September 19, 2001, 19:33
People, lets do not live ground in our litle thread `bout Mobil1.

I use it for years on all my guns, and it does excelent job as a lube, protectant and the cleaner. And I live in South Florida, in toughest climate for a gun in this country.

Now do we have better, gun dedicated products on the market? Probably....
But I got realy tired paying $4 for lipstick sized botle of CPL for example.
For $5 I get one quart of synthetic and that is plenty for all stuff I own, and top stuff.
Now be aware of all kinds of snake oils salesmen... hehe

As for health concerns.. Hehe :D

Recently I changed Timing belt on my passanger car after 80k miles and five years (damn! time and miles run...). I instaled new front seals since I was alredy there. Those old seals looked brand new, rubber was nice and soft, very well preserved. Engine interior was so clean you could eat from there. I use exclusivly syntetic oils (Mobil1 and CastrolRS...) on that car since new.

[ September 19, 2001: Message edited by: WJ-Polish Guy ]

ricochet
September 19, 2001, 20:25
OK guys,
I do believe in Mobil 1, but I want some ballistol to try also. I have seen a couple of the highly rated oils turn to grease at 10,000 feet elevation/very cold temps, but have not seen this with my Mobil 1 syn oil. If rated for extremes, I will gladly try it.
I have been using G/N assembly paste (a moly-disulfide paste - very lightly) for a few years with no complaints.
Also, I think that any lube used in moderation is good. Dry is bad. Long term storage or lack of care may separate the really good from the not so good. Just my .02.
Where is ballistol sold? I am willing to try it if Mark approves it's use.

TooTech
September 19, 2001, 20:30
I'm sorry, but what type of product (automotive?) is Ballistol, and where would I buy it?

TopSec29
September 19, 2001, 21:08
I've been looking for this stuff, has anybody tryed it??
Sporting Goods Lubricants


What crawls at one mile per hour, weighs six million pounds, and is always hungering for a lube job? That may sound like something out of a science fiction film. But in truth, this beast is the huge Mobile Launch Platform, needed to haul the fully assembled Space Shuttle from the Kennedy Space Center Vehicle Assembly Building to a launch pad.

In 1994, Lockheed Martin Space Operations was searching for an environmentally-safe lubricant for the lumbering, gigantic transporter. Sun Coast Chemicals of Daytona, Inc., Flagler Beach, Florida was contracted to formulate a spray lubricant free of environmental drawbacks. Demanding specifications were placed on the lubricant, along with the task of providing the crawler with the utmost in lubrication safeguarding.

Working with Lockheed Martin, Sun Coast Chemicals of Daytona (SCCD) was victorious in devising a Crawler Track Lubricant. From this work, SCCD created and introduced three spinoff products: Train Track Lubricant, Penetrating Spray Lube for rust prevention and other related problems, and Biodegradable Hydraulic Fluid.

SCCD has moved forward with yet another two new products, sparked by the original lubricant work.

The Reel Lube & Grease is an environmentally safe cleaner and lubricator.


The X-1R® Super Gun Cleaner and Lubricant (SGCL) has been created for the gun devotee. This product impregnates the gun's barrel and trigger mechanism with microscopic metal pores.
Just three to five microns in size, these pores help protect against galling while increasing the velocity action of the gun. A reduction in the heat build-up from rapid fire is also realized.

Designed to clean and lubricate in one step, the X-1R SGCL replaces solvent and oil now commonly used by gun owners. No particulates, such as Teflon® or graphite, are carried in the gun cleaner and lubricant. The environmentally safe, non-hazardous, non-flammable product is fortified with IR-39, a special SCCD advanced rust inhibitor. Making use of the X-1R SGCL protects a gun from rust and corrosion caused by extreme environmental conditions.

Sun Coast Chemicals of Daytona has announced another new product, an offspring from their NASA Crawler Track lubricant work. For the fishing enthusiast, SCCD is marketing the X-1R Tackle Pack.

Due to the high cost of fresh and saltwater reels today, preventative maintenance is a must. With the angler in mind, Sun Coast has developed a premium preventative maintenance package to assure optimum lubrication protection against rust and corrosion. The X-1R Tackle Pack is a blend of SCCD's special Rod and Reel Lube and All Reel Grease. This powerful twosome is a preparation that penetrates, cleans, reduces friction, lubricates, and provides extra protection against rust and corrosion. An angler can cast further with smoother retrievals thanks to the X-1R Tackle Pack.

For the hunting enthusiast, the biodegradable Gun Lube Cleaner & Grease protects against corrosion.


Once again, the X-1R Tackle Pack is environmentally harmless, non-hazardous, non-flammable, and is used and endorsed by both fresh and saltwater guides and certain reel manufacturers.

Sun Coast Chemicals of Daytona has entered the two new products into retail and wholesale sporting goods markets through the U.S. west coast-based Oshman's Sporting Goods and Academy Sporting Goods chains. SCCD has received its vendor acceptance from the Wal-Mart Super Store chain, as they too have expressed an interest in the SCCD environmentally safe lubricant product line.

Not bad for a company that started out "crawling" just a few years ago, now to become a fast-paced producer of a broad family of environmentally-friendly products.

® X-1R is a registered trademark of Sun Coast Chemicals of Daytona, Inc.
® Teflon is a registered trademark of E. I. du Pont de Nemours and Company.

FWRA
September 20, 2001, 06:36
Gang,
There are a bunch of lube products for guns on the market and they will all do the trick I'm sure.

Ballistol wont cost you a fortune and it is fantastic for leather and rubber too. A coating of Ballistol hand rubbed on Imbel dried out buttpads makes 'em look 100% better and pliable again.

I've found none better and will use nothing else on any of my guns. Why buy a bunch of products to take care of your gun wood, slings, plastic parts when one will do it all?

Like President Bush said though, keep the economy going, so I'm sure spending big bucks on gun care products will surely help.
Mobil 1 is a great engine lube and will also lubricate your gun, but I'll keep it in my Pontiac Transport van thanks. :-)

Regarding where to get Ballistol, you can order one of their goofy kits on the website
(those little aerosol cans that seem like they would be neat for a shooting bag, are, but they empty real quick and are more a marketing gimmick. I know because I tried 'em :-) or you can get 2 cans from me.
The 26oz liquid with a trigger sprayer will last a LONG time and is the Ballistol of choice with its 100% product fill. This is the one to use to initially lubricate your gun and to wipe on the outside to protect from weather and finger prints, also to hand rub wood, plastic and leather.

The 11oz aerosol is a great companion and contains an alcohol carrier which dilutes the product some, but is excellent for getting into tight spaces for loosening rusted fasteners or for spraying on squeaky hinges etc. Also an excellent touchup for guns pre lubed with the liquid. This aerosol was used on the Torture Test to lubricate my Ultra Lite and help keep it running smooth.
Shot blast your Imbel furniture then hand rub w/Ballistol liquid and have great looking FAL furniture.

I sell both cans,(the perfect pair) 16oz liquid with trigger sprayer, and the 11oz aerosol, for $25 shipped to lower 48 and include plenty of Ballistol literature. You Ohio guys can buy from me at gun shows or my shop for $20 for the pair, out the door. (the local gunshops hate me because they sell it for big bucks!:-) These two cans will last a long time too. The 16oz liquid (if you don't do dozens of Imbel stocks like I do!) will last you months as will the aerosol.

100% Money Back Guarantee too, less the $8 shipping charge which is included in the price! I've never had anyone return any and just keep selling more. ;-)

Oh, and Ted II or ??, go ahead and move to MarketPlace. :-)

Best Regards,
Mark Powell

tor
September 20, 2001, 16:53
Originally posted by FWRA:
<STRONG>

Oh, and Ted II or ??, go ahead and move to MarketPlace. :-)

Best Regards,
Mark Powell</STRONG>

Mark I like this last comment of your's a lot....I don't know Ted, I got the feeling somtimes that he is or was a school teacher... :)

If you have a "modern engine"(build in the ninety's),you have to change mobil 1 only every 10.000 miles ! I'm serios that every 3.000 mile oil change business here in the US is a big only money making jam...

Mark it seems to me that you and your wife found even more uses for Ballistol then the German's....
Posession of fire arms in germany no problem if you don't get cought....
The only way's to my knowledge of owning a fire arm legaly are:

Hunter; You have to get a hunting lisence,but a lisence in Germany is something completly different then here in the US.To obtain one you have to go to school to learn EVERYTHING what has to do with hunting with a exam in the end.Then when you finally have that lisence may be after a year or so you have to file for a weapon permit (each gun needs his own permit) but a hunter get's only a permit for 1 shootgun, 1 rifle (bolt action only)or a Drilling (comb. of both) The hunter also is allowed to carry one handgun (for the final kill if he doesn't hit right in the first place) And then the next big thing is to get a permit for ammo !! I think you guess already and you are right >> for every cal. you've to get a seperad permit!

You also can get a wepon permit if you can proof you need one for selfdefense,but they give it only to politian's, money transport worker's, high security agent's and so on...
Same thing for them,one hand gun,one cal.

And then there is the Schuetzenverein (Shooting club) I don't know about their regulation's but they are about the same...

Another important Law: NO SEMIAUTOMATIC weapon's, don't even think about full auto... Both go under the war weapon laws.



MG-70

I've changed my mint and got a CZ75B instead. I still wanted to find out why my Ger. mak was jamming from time to time,that's fixed now because of a nice Brazilian guy who organized a mak. part's group buy a couple of month ago,I only had to change slide and mag. spring's,they got a little weak after these short 41 year's.
I guess I don't have to tell you about the CZ, you all know better then I what fine pistol that is.....

Best Regard's, Torsten

[ September 20, 2001: Message edited by: tor ]

FWRA
September 21, 2001, 00:27
Originally posted by tor:
<STRONG>

MG-70

I've changed my mint and got a CZ75B instead. I still wanted to find out why my Ger. mak was jamming from time to time,that's fixed now because of a nice Brazilian guy who organized a mak. part's group buy a couple of month ago,I only had to change slide and mag. spring's,they got a little weak after these short 41 year's.
I guess I don't have to tell you about the CZ, you all know better then I what fine pistol that is.....

Best Regard's, Torsten

[ September 20, 2001: Message edited by: tor ]</STRONG>
Wow! I guess guns are verbotten. :-(

I had no idea it was so restrictive. Thanks for the comments. Always great to hear from a FAL Files member in Germany!


Warm Regards,

Mark Powell

Radio
September 21, 2001, 21:33
I too am a believer in Mobile 1 synthetic; my company uses synthetic oil in their truck engines, hard usage with at least 30,000 miles between oil changes. It's great on gun parts where grease isn't better. Also consider how many billions of AKs have been lubed for hundreds of years by common motor oil in fourth-world countries with perfect reliability, and they're probably using straight non-detergent 30-weight.

But now it's time for a confession and maybe spill the beans on one of my super-secret go-fast racer tips. I soak the fire control parts in DuraLube for several days while I'm out on a run. A little ritual when I'm about to perform final assembly on a kit, sorta like baptising the parts before the rifle goes into service. Roughly every case of ammo, I do it again. (I'm away from home and not shooting the thing anyway, so why not.) Call me nuts, call the results more psychological than physical, but I like what it does to the trigger pull.

I will now accept your congratulations for my brilliance.

--Radio ;) :D :p

Bullet
September 21, 2001, 22:09
Mobil One 5w-30 has about the highest protection for sheer when lubrication between moving parts, say engine bearings, when comparing other wieghts of mobil one. The only better oil I know is Ansol, but never been able to locate it in stores. If your engine is in sound mechanical condition all you really need is 5w-30. Oh wait! were talking about guns


I've used the red mobil one synthic greese for the moving parts in guns, as well as moly wheel bearing greese. Really didn't notice any differnce in anything except the moly greese is black and will make you think your gun if filthy.
BTW - Mobil one's 5w-30 is made with out polymers to thicken the oil during increased tempatures.