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jamie930
April 09, 2002, 19:36
it on FTF when the rounds are on the left side(charging handle side)of the mag. The bolt catches the rim moves the round so that it starts to push forward. Then the bottom of the bolt slips off the rim. I looked at my DSA receiver and it looked like the rail on that side was thinner. Is the mag well not cut deep enough? If so where should I remove the metal at?

sparky
April 09, 2002, 21:35
Jamie you hit the nail on the head. The mag well is not cut deep enough. the rail you are talking about is thicker on the Entreprise because the mag well is not deep enough towards the top. Look at it again then look at the DSA.

I refused the fix and told them to keep it as anything that out of spec is not good enough for me. :rolleyes:

ratas calientes
April 09, 2002, 22:21
Jamie -

Be sure to check over the current thread "Imbel shaving brass. Where do I dremel?"
(I hope I posted the URL correctly.) Lots of related info.
web page (http://www.falfiles.com/cgi-bin/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=005789)

Later -

Ratas

ratas calientes
April 09, 2002, 22:27
Spark meister -

So you had to send an Entreprise back? Unfortunately, I have to do the same thing. I got my Type 3 to work, but I also bought a Type 1, and I paid extra for the parkerizing. I want to use it on an already refinished G-1, but it needs some "file-to-fit" work, and I'll be darned if I'm going to file on a second one. The locking latch is also marginal - it locks up, but the take-down lever is all the way forward. Lots of other little problems with it too.

Later -

Ratas

[ April 09, 2002: Message edited by: ratas calientes ]

jamie930
April 10, 2002, 16:19
the mag has no play to move up on the back end any. I tried one of my brand new mags out and it would feed about half of the round on the left side from a full mag. With the middle doing the best. I am doing this with the firing pin removed and a stripped lower with buttstock and springs installed no locking shoulder if that really matters

DABTL
August 24, 2002, 20:41
I dredged up this thread to add that this defect is easily recognized by the follower hump being about 1/4 inch lower in the mag well than a normal one.

It is incredible that it could be off this far and still only ftf on my gun every 9 to 10 rds.

I will send it to Lawrence next week

sparky
August 24, 2002, 21:31
Bill would it charge by hand the normal way?

DABTL
August 25, 2002, 07:09
Originally posted by sparky
Bill would it charge by hand the normal way?

I am not certain what you mean by that.

When a mag is inserted and viewed from the top there is a significant difference in the location of the hump on the follower. It is quite recessed. Quite startling to see when compared with one that is right.

I had polished the feed ramps at the breech and polished the edges along the mag well. This significantly helped but the gun would ride over a round every 8 to 10 rds.

The gun had other problems with the gas system but thorough cleaning took care of that.

While at the range I decided that there had to be some ftf issue remaining. I got on the board and ran the ftf postings. While I was looking at the rails being somewhat thicker I was also comparing the gun to another. That is when the mag difference suddenly became apparent.

The gun is accurate and good looking. So I will contact Lawrence next week and return it. Whether or not it can be milled into spec is a question I cannot answer.

DougW
August 25, 2002, 10:27
My Type 1 also had the same problem. Using some 600 and higher grit paper. I took the "edge" off the lower guide rails side of the area in question, and by smoothing that area, I solved the FTF problem in my rifle. That sharp edge was causing the bullet to drag and helped contribute to the FTF.

DABTL
August 25, 2002, 11:10
I almost habitually now polish the lower guide rails on all my FALs.

The gun I compared the Type 1 with first was a Century L1a1. I noticed how rough the rails were on that gun and decided there had to be more. That is when I saw the mag differences.

sparky
August 25, 2002, 11:52
Bill what I meant by normal is before you started dremeling on it could you insert a mag and charge with the charging handle or could you lock the action open insert a mag and hit the bolt release and the rifle feed? On the one Double G built for me it would not feed that way and GG and some of his cronies said it would cycle if shooting but I guess they wanted me to drop the first round down the barrel and drop the bolt which I don't think is good on the extractor.

I do not want a rifle that won't load the way it was designed.

Lawrence/Entreprise
August 26, 2002, 10:56
Jamie930,
Email your contact info to me and we'll get in touch to help you get this resolved.

Ratas,
I'll take care of it as soon as I receive it. Please send it to my attention.

DABTL,
Email sent.

Sorry you guys are having trouble.

Lawrence

DABTL
August 26, 2002, 11:20
Sparky: It would hold open on the last round with the bho. It would on occasion not strip a round on the closing of the bolt. Most of the time it did. But after working with it a while all that happens now is the occasional bolt riding over the round. That occurs about twice a mag.

The difference in this one stripping a round and not must be quite small or all would either strip or not. It is not visible unless there is a mag in the well. Then it jumps out at you when compared with other receivers.

I heard from Lawrence within 17 hours of my figuring it out and emailing Entre'prise. I am going to send the assembly out to him and see what happens. It may be possible that some additional machining in the mag well will cure the problem. Super customer service.

DABTL
August 26, 2002, 11:21
Originally posted by sparky
Bill what I meant by normal is before you started dremeling on it could you insert a mag and charge with the charging handle or could you lock the action open insert a mag and hit the bolt release and the rifle feed? On the one Double G built for me it would not feed that way and GG and some of his cronies said it would cycle if shooting but I guess they wanted me to drop the first round down the barrel and drop the bolt which I don't think is good on the extractor.

I do not want a rifle that won't load the way it was designed.

That sounds nutty to me. No wonder you twisted off.

OK, final report before Lawrence gets to work on it. It will and did from the begining feed the first round by hitting the bolt release most of the time.

I got out the calipers, though I make no claim to being a machinist, and measured the ramps above the magazine that the bolt carrier rides on. Like yours they appeared thicker than normal. They measured .080 thick on the Type 1. On my Type 3 they measure .o45 thick. My bolt over riding the cartridge is fairly intermitent. That .035 must make the difference.

The difference in the follower height was caused by a comparison of an inch and metric. The metric has a bho that holds down the follower about .180 below the rails where the inch has no bho and rides on the rails. :uhoh: Don't compare inch to metric on some aspects of these guns.