Pet 7.62x51 powder

[goldenspurholderx2]

I am going to be reloading for my "Special Olympics" rifle soon. So far I have 1lb of VARGET I want any ideas for a powder suitable for an 18" tube that will give me good velocity but no fire ball out the end of my barrel, clean powder would be nice. Any suggestions welcome.

[Muggzy]

I like W748 ....but I have not tried it in a 18" tube, so I don't know about
what kind of flash you'd get.

that be W748 for the 7.62x51

[Temp]

Good old H4895 is an excellent choice for the .308. It meters well and is used by many high power rifle competitors in their .308 chambered rifles.

I've also had very good results using it in my 7.5 Swiss loads.

It represents a burning rate which works well in a very broad range of rifle ammo applications.

[richbug]

Varget.

[gunsmith_tony]

AA-2460 also works quite well.

[goldenspurholderx2]

Keep 'em coming, after I beg a couple of loads worth of these types of powders off my friends I want to take out the camera at night and see which gives less of a fire ball with my Hurricane FH. It will take a couple of months for my slow a$$ to get it all set but it will be interesting.

[gunsmith_tony]

Well lets see...with .308, I've loaded with IMR-4895, H-380, H-335, AA-2230, AA-2495BR, AA-2460, and a few others I can't think of off-hand. I've had over-all best results with the AA-2460.

[cookhj]

VV N-135, N-140
IMR 4895 4064


those are the only ones i've used.

[ftierson]

Originally posted by gunsmith_tony
AA-2460 also works quite well.

I agree...

As does AA 2230-C (which uses AA 2460 data)...

And, as does Hodgdon H335...

Forrest

[DYNOMIKE]

I bought a LB. of VARGET because I heard it was a VERY good powder for the .308. To date I have not tried it yet, but do plan on it my next .308 Loading session.

So far I have tried W-748, H-414, & H-335.
All have shown reliable function in My FAL's, and respectable groups @ 50 Yards.
W-748, & H-335 worked well enough that I may give them some more attention and try to dial in a load I can use in all the FAL's.

[gordo63]

For match ammo in my M1A, IMR-4895 works great (sub MOA) with Sierra 168g SMKs. Haven't worked up a 175g load yet but will try IMR-4895, IMR-4064, and Varget. Varget works well with for the 165g hunting loads in bolt guns. For my 147g ball ammo in my FALs, I use H-335 with very good results.

[goldenspurholderx2]

I plan on picking the top 5 powders mentioned and either begging or buying those powders, then working up different loads(charge amounts)over a 155gr Sierra PALMA MK in some new Lapua brass with CCI military primers to keep everything else equal. First I'll be looking at "fire ball" then accuracy, and if I can borrow a chrony, velocity out of an 18" tube. Unfortunately it'll take me a little while to get everything in place but I think it will be worth it. After a while I may change this into a poll to find the top 5 powders.

[JohnnyV1966]

Favorite 7.62x51 powder? It depends on the bullet used. I have had great luck with W-748 on bullets that weigh 150 grains and less. 168's and 175 Sierra Match Kings Varget was a great performer. IMR4895 was also good. It just depends on the firearm your recipe likes the best. I dont think anyone will quarrel with W-748 on 150s and less nor Varget or IMR 4895 for heavier bullets.

[SteveW]

RL15 with all weights of bullet. Favorite load is 42.5 gr in Hornady Match 308 cases with a SMK 168 in a 24" barrel bolt gun. WLR primer. 2560fps.

S.

[fastprofessor]

I've tried several types of powders for .308, and once I've found the right load with each powder, I haven't found a big difference in them at the ranges I shoot. Maybe some of the long range shooters see more of a difference. But I guess my pet powder is BLC-2. It flows good, shoots relatively clean, and I use it for loading .223 as well.

[gunsmith_tony]

Originally posted by lngnmn
posted by SteveW
RL15 with all weights of bullet.

I agree with the RL-15, but i've only used it w/ 165gr blts. in a 21" BBl L1A1. Crony said av. 2518 w/ 43 gr. and a CCI 200 pr. most consistant load I've come up with so far! SD of 4.58. I will try the AA2460 that GS Tony endorses too.He was right on about the lee factory crimp dies, now I'll get them for more of the cals. I load for!:fal:
Actually, I've never been a big fan of LEE products. RCBS and Dillon have spoiled me I quess. Even so, there are two LEE products I do like. Their "AutoPrime" tool, and those wonderful Factory Crimp dies. I think those are just the bee's knees!
The load I use with AA-2460 works exceptionally well in both my FALs.


40.8-grains AA-2460
148-grain FMJ/BT NATO (collet pulls or 150-grn Hornady FMJ/BT)
GI 7.62-mm NATO brass (mostly LC)
CCI #34 OEM millitary large rifle primer
Initially trimmed to minimum book length and crimped in canalure w/Lee FC die.
I don't have a chrony, so I don't know what the velocity is...but hey...they "FEEL" good.
And believe me, I've "FELT" a lot of ammo!:biggrin:

[shootist87122]

Varget for the 26" bolt gun and 150,155 & 168 grain bullets does great for me in the 26"bolt gun. Whatever barrel was on an early SA58 shot figure eight groups with the Sierra Palmas, but 150 grain Nosler BTs did great in that rifle as well as the bolt gun.

GPH2, The Sierrra Palmas can be a problem load for some chambers - don't put too many in inventory untill you try 'em. Another good all around bullet is the 150 Hornady SST although I have only loaded them in a K31 thus far.

[GSF1200]

I like WC-846

[G2]

4895 is the Numero-Uno IMHO.
I buy mil surplus IMR and have been loading for all my .308's including my short barreled carbines.

[skeeterbay]

I have used IMR 4895 for years and it gets my vote. However lately I have been playing with Vihta Vuori "N" powders with great luck and I am starting to use more and more of it in several calibers. You should be able to work up a good load with either IMR or VV. :smile:

[GSF1200]

I like cheap powder, I buy whatever I can get on closeout, or in bulk.

[daschnoz]

I've used Win 748 and Reloader-7. Now that I have a chrony, I'm going to play with IMR-4895 and BL-C(2).

~150gr bullet--
Win 748 all but fills the case (I load around 47.5gr). You'll use less Rx-7 for similar velocities (I load 37.5gr). 748 is a ball, Rx-7 is a stick. Stick powders tend to burn cleaner than ball powders.

I haven't played too much with IMR-4895 or BL-C(2) to offer advice there.

As for muzzle flash and velocity, a chrony would be a great investment. Compare powder types and charges with speed, accuracy, and muzzle flash. You may find that if you lower the charge by 0.5gr, you loose 50ft/sec, but the muzzle flash goes way down.

I'm not sure if this will make a difference with the muzzle flash, but maybe try magnum rigle primers. They're a bit hotter than the "standard" primers, so you effectively get free chamber pressure. Not sure if it's enough to make a speed difference, but it can't hurt to try.

[perdurabo]

Originally posted by GSF1200
I like WC-846

Ditto. Used to be able to get it from hi-techammo for $55/8# keg. And they waive the HAZMAT fee if you buy 4 or more kegs.

Safety trumps everthing, but all things being equal, cheaper trumps better in my book.

[A17195]

Varget will work well in the .308. Most of the reloading I do in .308 is with IMR4895 or Accurate2520. I only have one FAL but two Garands and one M1A. They require a certain burn rate to function correctly, hence the 2520 and the 4895. Right around 46 grains or so with a 168 should do the trick. I have used Varget in one of the .30 bolt guns, got sub MOA with 168HPBT. Don't know if the FAL's are as powder sensitive as the Garands/M14 but I doubt it. Have fun with the VArget.

[jerrymrc]

Don't know if the FAL's are as powder sensitive as the Garands/M14

I think even more so as it pertains to accuracy. You can make almost anything function in a fal but they sure are picky about there load. and what works in one may not work in another.

[newfalguy101]

I started with w-748 and have never seen any reason to change, it meters really well and has given me good results.

I use 130 gr bullets and 165's for my Savage 99 and either will do 1 1/2 or less when I do my part.


And since you are going to base your decison on the number of times a powder is mentioned:

W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, W-748, :tongue: :biggrin:

[aardq]

My favorites are IMR 4895 and BL-C2, but I only use 150 - 168 grain bullets. I've used others with success, but I'm only going for accuracy and function, not reduced muzzle flash.

Since the FAL gas port is adjustable it should be more tolerant of powders than the M-1 and M-1A, but it would probably be best to stick to powders in the same burning rate.

It's been a month since you first posted this. Have you tried any powders, and if so, which ones? What are your results?

Dan.

[Thed]

Lately I have been recycling/remanufacturing Indian OFV into practice ammo. Pulling the bullet, full length sizing the brass, and length triming. Chuck the old powder and save the old bullets to be sorted and weighed later. I then put all the brass (before and after reloading) through a Frankfort Arsenal .308 full size guage. Please note that I have an over 20% rejection rate on Brass.

Really the story is I am trying to turn Lemons into Lemonaid :D I bought a bunch of OFV 97-98 from Century when it was 1280 rounds for $100 delivered. Back then I was kicking myself for being so stupid. Now a days, I am kind of relieved that I have a source of primed brass. Albiet a little bit of work.

Then reloading the primed brass with surplus IMR4895 and 147gr FMJBT or 150gr Remington CoreLokt PSP. Both have been great, all things considered. Granted the Indian brass is not great, but after the sizing and sorting, I think I can get quite a few lower charged reloads out of the brass that passed QC.

I would prefer Lake City Match Brass with Varget, but quite frankly for iron sight practice the lower cost ammo translates into more range time due to lower cost.

Are there any other "economy powders" of lower cost but of relatively the same safety and performance level of the IMR4895 surplus? $80 for an 8lb keg is not bad.

I have heard of some people using small amounts of Red Dot for a short range training ammo in 7.62NATO/.308. But quite frankly that kind of spooks and creeps me out. I just feel a whole hell of alot more comfortable with a powder that fills most of the case volume for charging.

-Thed

[M40a3]

Varget for 168 and 175 grain bullets, WC-846 for 150 grain FMJ.

[Mebsuta]

Originally posted by G2
4895 is the Numero-Uno IMHO.

Si-mon. It's good for everything. Get tired of it and tinker with other stuff but always come back to it.

[Right Side Up @ 1000 MPH]

N140 for 168's & 175's, and N135 for lighter bullets.

Flash retardents, clean burning, consistent velocity and accurate.

Use with CCI BR primers.

[SID325]

Those using H4895 and 147gr FMJ's. How many grains are you using for a FAL load?

Sid

[Temp]

Originally posted by SID325
Those using H4895 and 147gr FMJ's. How many grains are you using for a FAL load?

Sid

I've settled on 42.5 grains of H4895 for .308 with the 147 grain FMJ's.

It's a pretty close approximation of typical surplus in terms of velocity and accuracy.

I've taken it as high as 44 grains with no signs of excess pressure in my rifles.

[SID325]

Temp,

Thanks, anyone know who has surplus 4895 or surplus .30cal powder? I would prefer not having to buy new 4895 @ $115 for 8lbs.

Sid

[Thed]

I have had very good luck withthe IMR4895 surplus from Wideners (http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=278|283|313). Its $79 per 8lb jug + Hazmat and shipping.

I did not respond to your post earlier because you specified H4895 and did not list the type of brass.

My prefered target load with a variety of 7.62NATO military brass and CCI primers is 40.0gr of IMR4895 using 150gr Remington Corelokt and 147gr FMJ M80 pull down bullets.

[SID325]

Thed, my bad.

IMR4895 or H4895 will work. Actually any good military .30 cal surplus powder would work. I'm using once-fired military, all LC brass, and M80 bullets. I want to create a basic "Military" load to use in my Fal's. I've been set-up to load .308 for a while. Surplus has, or was, to cheap to justify reloading. But now, I'm leaving my entire surplus stockpile for a rainy day. So, I dialed my Dillon in and need to work up a load. I just need to find a good deal on powder.

Sid

[highbrow]

IMR 4064. However am seeing some good results with Ramshot TAC.

[Glock63]

Originally posted by highbrow
IMR 4064. However am seeing some good results with Ramshot TAC.

What powder charge are you using with 4064.

[highbrow]

41 gr IMR 4064 with 165 gr bullet. Is a fairly mild load. Works well in all of my .308 weapons and is my all around big game load. 165 gr bullets are more accurate in my guns than 147-150 gr.

[GSF1200]

WW-748, Hodgdon BL-C2, and surplus WC-846 are all the same thing

[Andy the Aussie]

I have happily used two powders in 308....WW748 and Mulwex AR2206 (which I believe you know as Varget), 2206 (and previously 2201 was what the Aussie F4 was loaded with.

Andy

[shootist87122]

Varget does seem the same as the Aussie loading alright: 150 Hornadys loaded to ~2,750 shoot to the same POI as Aussie. Ejection in a FAL might be more robust, however. Here's what it did eariler this week in an Ishapore 2A1:

This charge (with the CCI NATO spec primer) is too hot in military brass, btw (Graff .308 brass is thinner, i.e. more internal volume.)


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/shootist87122/TARG-ISHY1106.jpg

[SID325]

Well, since I’m unable to locate any surplus powder I’ll be buying new commercial. Question, I’ve been using H4895 for my Fal loads, but have recently looked at BL-C(2). Does anyone have any pro/con on BL-C(2)? Or should I just stick with H4895. I do all my loading on a Dillon 650. Does the BL-C(2) meter better?

Thx,

Sid

[English Mike]

Originally posted by SID325
Well, since I’m unable to locate any surplus powder I’ll be buying new commercial. Question, I’ve been using H4895 for my Fal loads, but have recently looked at BL-C(2). Does anyone have any pro/con on BL-C(2)? Or should I just stick with H4895. I do all my loading on a Dillon 650. Does the BL-C(2) meter better?

Thx,

Sid

BLC2 is ball powder, so it should meter better than the extruded H4895.

Trivia: According to Hodgdon, BLC2 was developed for the 7.62x51 round, whilst H4895 was for the 30-06.

[USSR]

Money no object: RL15. Best deal: Surplus IMR4895.

Don

[SID325]

Who has a .308 load using WC846, 147gr M80's, and once fired GI brass for a FAL?

Sid

[perdurabo]

Originally posted by SID325
Who has a .308 load using WC846, 147gr M80's, and once fired GI brass for a FAL?

Sid

From page 11-7 of US Army manual TM 43-0001-27 for M80:

Propellant:
Type ........................ WC 846
Weight ..................... 46 gr
Projectile:
Weight ..................... 146 gr

http://www.subguns.com/biggerhammer/manuals/pdfs/tm43-0001-27.pdf (username: manuals password: chipin)

[SID325]

Has anyone bought any of the WC846 from Pat's? Does anyone have input on quality/performance for .308 loading? I just don't want to buy 8lb's and be disappointed.

Sid

[Glock63]

Uncle sam uses 46 grains of WC 846 for 147 grain 7.62 loads, as do I. No problems here, and accuracy from my G-1 is on par with other loads Ive tried.

[moses]

I just loaded a few hundred rds with wc846 46 grs and 147gr fn bullets and they are very acurate!

I usually use surplus 4895 42 grs and FN bullet
Which is also very accurate

[SID325]

Good to know, because I just ordered 48 pounds of WC846 from Pat's.

Sid

[DYNOMIKE]

Gents I loaded 160 rounds with 44 Gr of VARGET just the other Night..
During my Range session Function was PERFECT in two different FAL's with NO gas adjustment on either, in fact Ejection seemed Slightly Stronger than the SA Ball I was using to compare. POI was basically the same as well and Groups @ 50 yards were pretty darn good..
BUT VARGET is a Short grain Extruded powder and caused me some difficulty with the Older style DILLON Powder dispenser.. When the bar tries to Cut some of the grains in Half the BAR is hard to push.. I do NOT have this prob with BALL powders at all and WONDER if anyone using a Newer DILLON 550 has similar difficulties with STICK powders? I ask becaue I plan on making that switch in the future..
Anyway, using BALL powder is NOT a prob for me, However I don't like being relegated to them if there is a BETTER option for a Certain caliber..

I "OFTEN" see surplus powder buys on WC849, and 4895 but would like to know IF these are "BALL" powders before I invest in a Larger quantity..
I have also experienced very good results with W748, & H-335 and may consider just buying that in a Larger container and being done with fiddling and get on with the Loading..:wink:

[shootist87122]

Mike,

On my Dillon 650 power measure the Varget works pretty well, but not as nice as ball. I load to + or - 0.2 grains of powder, even for the precision bolt gun. After the machine settles in it will generally stay in that range with half or better at +- 0.1 grains. I check weights every round for the first few or till it settles-in, and then check after every 9 or 10. It's important to keep your rythem the same every time, including the force applied to seat primers.

The Dillon measure drops more accurately than my RCBS manual power measure.

[USSR]

I "OFTEN" see surplus powder buys on WC849, and 4895 but would like to know IF these are "BALL" powders before I invest in a Larger quantity..

DYNOMIKE69,

IMR4895 is an extruded powder that was used in .30-06, and .308 LC Match ammo. I last saw it listed for sale last year, and believe it is no longer available as military surplus. IMHO, this is the ultimate milsurp powder for the .308.

Don

[Deltaten]

K-man and I tried to get the 4895 with our Widemer's order, but they were out of stock..TOO!

ENded up getting 846 from Pat's (he was outta 4895...too! BIG run on that lately ;) ). All the better!
I prefer the ball powders for the same reasons...better flow thru the measure. While I don't progressively reload rifle calibers, the stick powder hanging up in the Uni_Flow measure *really* messes up the "rhythm" that Joe mentioned. I end up getting powder all over the place, too; as the stick type hangs in the throat of the measure, then ya move on to the next and the rest of it spills!
Dammit! :D I hate when that happens
To me...BLC-2 seems a bit "hot", and the 846 should fit between 4895 and BLC-2...I think?
Gonna be a pile o'brass gettin done up, 'cause I gots 2 8# jugs comin':D Hope I like it! :eek:

regards,
Paul