Fixed type Magazine box

[DNS]

Would it be possible for someone to design a fixed type magazine? Something that could only be removed by opening the upper and lower receiver. They are talking about welding a mag. in on the legal forum, so they can keep the flash hider and threaded barrel. Even if it could be made to hold 10rds, it seems like a good idea.

[W.E.G.]

Sure. Just weld the mag in place, and use a top cover which allows stripper clips.

[DNS]

I was wondering about something less permanent than welding. One that still could be taken out by opening the receiver. Something like the SKS box type magazines,and still not considered detachable by the ATF

[Southern Raider]

I wonder if you could just use a standard magazine, but remove the portion of the mag release that you press on to release it? Or perhaps replace the mag release with a non-pivoting fixed piece of metal that is pinned in place? Either way, you'd at least need to open up the action to remove the fixed magazine and perhaps use a pin punch as well.

[Porter Wagoner]

Hello All,

I'm not familiar with FAL's but I have come up with a fixed magazine trick on my AR15. I've been trying to determine if this would work on a FAL. I got the idea from the SKS.

I have a post ban lower with a fixed stock and two barreled upper receiver assemblies. One is pre ban while the other is post.

I drilled and tapped a 4mm hole in the front of the receiver so it is behind the front take down pin when assembled. The hole is centered horizontally and vertically between the front ears. When drilling and tapping this hole I also sacrificed a magazine. The magazine is inserted into the lower in a normal manner so the hole and threads line up.

This took about 10 minutes. Upon completion I screwed in a 4mm x 5mm set screw flush with the front of the receiver. It protrudes into the magazine cavity about 1mm. I shaved a tiny amount of material from the center front of the magazine follower so there is no interference with the set screw. Also The is no interference with the set screw and the bullets since the screw is centered and only protrudes into the magazine ~1mm. Feeds and funxtions fine.

The magazine release button is unaltered but what I'm left with is a magazine that can not be removed from the lower with out tools (an allen wrench in this case). Also the upper and lower must be separated in order to remove the magazine. When the upper and lower are assembled the set screw is not accessible since the front take down pin and/or the delta ring is in the way.

What your left with is a post ban detachable magazine AR15 or a "fixed magazine rifle semi automatic rifle."

Regards

[Southern Raider]

Porter,
That sounds like a good idea, but do you have an opinion letter from the BATF? i.e. Is it considered fixed by their standards?

The crap we go through to stay legal...

[Porter Wagoner]

Southern Raider,

I guess the short answer is no. Probably a good idea though. Until I can find a firm judgement my pop gun stays taken apart or with the post ban upper. From the reading I've done it should be legal. Although the devils in the details and I doubt this could ever be used in a production environment. There have been a few examples of mechanically fixing the magazine on the AR forums board but they usually modify the mag release.

What really got me thinking were the clauses in the Californian ban that state tools must be used to remove the magazine from a semi automatic rifle that has a fixed magazine. Paraphrasing the use of tools defines the magazine as being fixed and not detachable. I don't believe welding was mentioned. I'm sure this language was included to ensure the weapon wasn't readily convertible. The Californian ban defines "detachable" while US code doesn't.

The allen wrench is the tool but I took it one step further since the weapon has to be disassembled in order to remove the "fixed" magazine, much like an SKS. There's no way the magazine can be made detachable while the lower and upper are connected. In all states of disassembly the lower receiver (legally the firearm for the AR15) is post ban.

When the set screw is removed and magazine is made detachable the lower sits there like an expensive club with its one evil feature - the pistol grip. Ready to accept the post ban upper. At no time is the lower connected to more pre features than allowed with a detachable mag.

Placing the pre ban upper on the post ban detachable mag lower is of course illegal.

This could be an issue for the FAL, depending on how the magazine is fixed, since the barreled upper receiver is the legal firearm. When disassembling a "fixed" magazine you could be left with the upper receiver ready to accept a detachable magazine. The problem is having the upper, ready to accept detachable magazines, being attached to more pre ban features than allowed. These would be the flash suppressor, bayo lug and grenade launcher at the end of the barrel. Not to mention the domestic part count requirement.

What do you think? Maybe that's why welding and more permanent attachment like pinning is preferred on a FAL's. There's no way the receiver could except a detachable mag in any state of disassembly. The use of tools would be more vague and I'd feel better with a more permanent attachment. Taking a queue from some other firearms and accessories I'd think pinning would be acceptable (pinned open folding stocks, muzzle breaks, etc).

Regards

[Southern Raider]

Originally posted by Porter Wagoner:
What do you think

First off, I think that these laws are an exercise in futility...

Technically, it really comes down to what the enforcing agencies think. An opinion letter written to the BATF technical division and the CA DOJ would give you a leg to stand on to help keep you out of jail should something go wrong. You'd still lose the rifle as contraband should opinions change.

[W.E.G.]

btt