Buyer beware...

[krommetall]

I had a dealer (piece of history) purchase an Akron "pristine" so-called "Mint" condition kit from Akron and what a disappointment.

After spending $250, and waiting over 3-months, I received a far from perfect piece of crap.

The only good part about it was the bore, which I would say is 85%. The rest of the gun is 50% or worse.

The folding buttstock is SO bad that I would have to replace it. The buttstock and the muzzle end of the barrel has big flakes of rust. Deep pitting!.

I would say this kit is worth no more then $80, but $250! No way!!! Hell, I received better looking/quality kits from other dealers for $99.

I'm wondering if it was an honest mistake or are others paying outrageous amounts of money for pure crap.

According to my dealer, Akron is totally impossible to work with. They don't deliver, when they say they will. So now I'm waiting to hear if they'll replace the kit with what was promised originally MONTHS AGO!!!

Waiting patiently.

Krom

[Bigger_Is_Better]

Krom,
Why did you have a "dealer" order you a kit? They will sell straight to you. How much did the "dealer" mark up the price. A couple of weeks back I ordered an Imbel FAL kit for $149 shipped. I received it 2 days after I ordered it. Great Customer service to. If you're so upset, call them yourself, don't have the "dealer" do it. I don't know why everyone wants to have a middle man. Bob's a good guy to deal with. He is usually the one who answers the phone.

Aaron

[capt ron]

were you there when the dealer opened the package?
if not how do you know those are the parts that came in the package.

did you see the invoice? or did you dealer order the $99 one and pocket the difference?

lots of other ????? but i don't want to go there just now............

update: lets see your dealer got 4 kits for the price of 3 kits, right.

did you get a chance to look at the three kit that he kept? how did they look?

[PoHF]

I'm not going to tell anymore than this right now. He saw ALL four kits. One of my customers is in Ranger training (2) is on travel (3) saw all four kits and one kit is left over. I thank Bob for that. So if you ask why I ordered these for other people now you know why, I will never do it again and I will make it right for my customer's that trusted me with getting their builds done to the standards that they and I expect. Thanks Mario Piece of History Firearms Tucson, Az

[Richard Bird]

Originally posted by capt ron
were you there when the dealer opened the package?
if not how do you know those are the parts that came in the package.

did you see the invoice? or did you dealer order the $99 one and pocket the difference?

lots of other ????? but i don't want to go there just now............

update: lets see your dealer got 4 kits for the price of 3 kits, right.

did you get a chance to look at the three kit that he kept? how did they look?
Now that PoHF has had a chance to reply,
I'll ask the obvious,
Why did you insinuate that a respected builder in the industry substituted an inferior $99.00 kit for the ordered $250.00 one?
I read in another thread that you are a small gun shop owner.
You certainly must know the damage of false accusation and innuendo, especially on the internet.
I suggest you apologize and make amends here.

[capt ron]

i did not know who the dealer was, that was not posted until later. i still don't know him. it was not a personal accusation on him. sorry if he took it that way.
mario if you took it that way my apoligies to you.

i have seen dealers do this to customers over the years and it sucks when they do it. order stuff and if it looks better than what they swap it out. if there are extras in the order they take out stuff. this makes it look bad for the rest of us dealers.

i tell my customers to order the kits themself ( i help them find the best place to buy from)(i make a little money on the receivers) and this save them and me all the hassel and they usually save a little money that way.

mario, thanks for the update on this, it makes sense now.
richard thanks for the concern.
thanks
capt ron

[jamesq]

Originally posted by Richard Bird


Why did you insinuate that a respected builder in the industry substituted an inferior $99.00 kit for the ordered $250.00 one?


what is this crap? are there secret decoder ring posts i'm not seeing? he was the third person responding, and frankly, that was my first impuse as well.

[B Wood]

There are lots of details left out in this thread.

POH has a great repuation. Mario is a pro.

Akron has had a good rep here as well. I have not bought from Bob, but I do understand the amount of work that goes into kits.....and one thing is for sure....grading is a personal opinon.

Since both POH, and Akron have good reps...I would suggest getting Bob's side here on this thread....no pulling punches.....maybe one slipped through.....that has happened to pretty much ANYONE on a gun board.

I have always found it prudent to be gentlmen and work things out.

[C2A1]

I am the owner of one of the kits that Mario ordered. I also travel a lot and since Mario builds some really fine rifles (my Tantel looks like the real thing) and I have come to trust him, I have him order the kits and bill me. I haven't seen my fixed stock rifle but Mario said it is a bit rough (top cover rusted etc), bore good though. Since the fixed stock rifles seem a bit hard to come by we'll build it.
On the other hand, Bob has sent me some really nice AK74s kits (which Mario has built for me). So I don't know what has happened with these yugo kits.

[Horseman]

Originally posted by B Wood
.....and one thing is for sure....grading is a personal opinon.

I would have to disagree with that sir. Politics aside, the standards for grading guns and gun parts were set many years ago by the NRA.

I have bought kits from Century, M&A Parts, TAPCO, Dans and quite a few parts from regular joes like myself here on the board. With the exception of M&A (refinished STG kit with pitted bore graded as "Excellent") all have graded within the NRA standards listed below, so...................................

It is or would be REASONABLE to assume that a company in the business of selling large amounts of gun related items would be familiar with a system most of us have used all of our gunowning lives.


Never bought from Akron, and have heard heard nothing but good things about them..........untill now.


NRA Standards of condition for modern firearms


NEW: Not previously sold at retail, in same condition as current factory production.

NEW DISCONTINUED: Same as NEW, but discontinued model.

PERFECT: In new condition in every respect. Sometimes referred to as "mint".

EXCELLENT: New condition, used very little, no noticeable marring of wood or metal, bluing perfect (except at muzzle or sharp edges).

VERY GOOD: In perfect working condition, no appreciable wear on working surfaces, no corrosion or pitting, only minor surface dents or scratches.

GOOD: In safe working condition, minor wear on working surfaces, no broken parts, no corrosion or pitting that will interfere with proper functioning.

FAIR: In safe working condition, but well worn, perhaps requiring replacement of minor parts or adjustments, that should be indicated in advertisement; no rust, but may have corrosion pits that do render the gun unsafe or inoperable.

POOR: Badly worn, rusty and battered, perhaps requiring major adjustment or repairs to place in operating condition.



NRA ANTIQUE STANDARDS

FACTORY NEW: All original parts, 100% original finish, in perfect condition in every respect, inside and out.

EXCELLENT: All original parts, over 80% original finish, sharp lettering, numerals and design on metal and wood, minor marks in wood, good bore.

FINE: All original parts, over 30% original finish, sharp lettering, numerals and design on metal and wood, minor marks in wood, good bore.

VERY GOOD: all original parts, none to 30% original finish, original metal surfaces smooth with all edges sharp, clear lettering, numerals and design on metal, wood slightly scratched or bruised, bore disregarded for collectors firearms.

GOOD: Some minor replacement parts, metal smoothly rusted or lightly pitted in places, cleaned or reblued, principal lettering, numerals and design on metal legible, wood refinished, scratched, bruised or minor cracks repaired, in good working order.

FAIR: Some major parts replaced, minor replacement parts may be required, metal rusted, may be lightly pitted all over, vigorously cleaned or reblued, rounded edges of metal and wood, principal lettering, numerals and design on metal partly obliterated, wood scratched, bruised, cracked or repaired where broken, in fair working order or can be easily repaired and placed in working order.

POOR: Major and minor parts replaced, major replacement parts required and extensive restoration needed, metal deeply pitted, principal lettering, numerals and design obliterated, wood badly scratched, bruised, cracked or broken, mechanically inoperative, generally undesirable as a collectors firearm.

[FTW2012]

WTF!!!!!!??????


Who is stupid enough to order a parts kit through a dealer anyway?

Aren't AK kits advertised all over the internet for $90 - $150?

stupid is as stupid does

[gunplumber]

were you there when the dealer opened the package?
if not how do you know those are the parts that came in the package.

did you see the invoice? or did you dealer order the $99 one and pocket the difference?

IS this called projecting? Something you'd do, so you assume the same in others?

Speaking for myself, I've replaced parts in customer supplied kits at no charge because my ego is simply too big to put my name on a finished product made with substandard products.

There are some companies like Century, Joeken, and Hesse that don't care what they turn out because its only the dollars that matter.

On the other end are builders like CGW, Myself, PoH, IGF etc that see the business as more than income. We are PASSIONATE about it. We put our souls into our work. We'd do it for free if we didn't have to eat.

The same person who spends hours making the rivit heads exactly the right shape, and rengraves to the correct original markings isn't going to throw a POS part on to save a buck. Its against his nature.

I think your insinuation reveals much about how YOU think.

[B Wood]

Horseman....I am well aware of NRA grading......if you want to see exactly how subjective and personal grading is...........look at Gun Broker / Auction Arms / even here....and look at how the condition varies WIDELY for what is called "excellent", "good", etc.

Sure there are standards.....but I have found that opinions vary widely on grading results

[krommetall]

Issued resolved:

Bob, thanks for resolving the issue with Mario (Piece of History Firearms).

From what I understand, you'll be replacing The kits with what was originally promised. That's Great! Now I can build my favorite gun. I've been waiting for years to have a "pristine" M70AB2 and you made it possible. Thanks for being a man of his word and helping me (and mario) with what was promised.

When we receive the replacement kit next week, I'll take pictures and display them on the site.

Keep up the good work! :smile:

Krom

[krommetall]

According to Bob at AA, he states (on another thread) the above statement was Incorrect. He also states that Mario (Piece of History) got exactly what he requested. So here's my reply:

You gave Mario what you promised?

Let me get this right, you promised Mario crap kits (worth $80 each), but charged him $250 a piece? What's wrong with this picture???

On a seperate note, you sold two kits to a friend of mine at the old price of $180 a piece. Those kits were mint! I told Mario about those kits and what you were offering and he immediately made an order for me and other customers. When we placed the order, we found out that you raised the price to $250. I told mario, I'd be willing to pay your inflated price as long as I get a kit that looks like the one my friend got. Well, three months later (after Mario was dicked around by AA), I received the kit. Yuck!

I saw the other kits that Mario received and they all looked like crap.

Bob, I guess the question is, did you sell these kits for $250 knowing you were sending a $80 sewer pipes/boat anchor or did Mario order this crap (at a discounted price) and sell it to me for the "Pristine" price? Who's telling me the real story?

Either Mario or you have bad business practice and I (as well as others) would like to know.

Waiting patiently for your answer.

Krom

[FTW2012]

Still dosen't explain why a kit was ordered through a dealer
You could have just bought one yourself from any one of a hundred sources

[krommetall]

FTW2012-

To answer your question, normally I would. Because Mario was a friend and he said he was making an order to AA, I asked him to get me one as well.

I was at Mario's shop when he received the kits. The kits all looked the same, some worse then others. I trust Mario enough to know that he wasn't going to screw me.

Krom

[FTW2012]

I just picked up two mint AK kits for $125 ea